I want to bag my wife's car this winter.

For the front, I think I am going to buy some 255c bags and make my own brackets. I don't need shocks because I am not replacing the struts.

For the rear, I want to use F9000 bags. Does the Air Ride kit for 93-02 Camaros fit the 82-92 in the rear?

I need some nice valves like my SMCs, but they need to be smaller. My truck is too fast for me and totally unnecessary for her. Are the smaller ones any cheaper? Or should I just get the 10mm and restrict them? I will probably run 1/4 inch line with the long skinny Air Ride tank and Viar 400c comp.

I want it to almost lay the rockers out, the exhaust won't allow full layage. Does anyone know how low the stock struts will allow it to go? If it doesn't go low enough, I am sure it would with drop spindles.

 

just email me if you want to talk about air ride...

 

yes.


stock struts will let it lay on the bumpstops. i had my springs out and did it just to see how it would look.. lol.

good luck finding drop spindles... they stopped making them for our cars, so they're impossible to find.


but, theres a solution... if the strut is the problem, spohn and a couple others make strut plates that let the strut mount up a couple inches higher... that way, when you drive the car lowered, you arnt midway on the strut travel..... banner at the top, middle row, on the left....

 

also can run a smaller strut.....if you had a coilover conversion like on my car you would have to and using something like the qa1 strut will work just fine. the only thing restricting my car is my exhaust. which will be gone soon.

 

I was thinking about raising the upper strut mount. I should probably do that even if travel is not a problem.

Kandied, are you using the Air Ride 93-02 kit on the rear of your car?

I think I am going to get that kit for the rear and fab some brackets for the front. I read somewhere that S10 brackets would work on a Camaro, is there any truth to that rumor?

 

yes.

the lower control arm of the S10 and the camaro are the exact same part.

so if you wanted to stay with the stock syle (non coilover) setup, you can just place a GM spring bag kit like most S10 guys use.

theres a local guy here that has a 2 valve S10 bag front and 4thgen rear setup... its not airride, and its quite a ugly car.... and it looks like it handles like crap... but it all fits nicely.

run a proper 4 valve setup and im sure it'll ride much nicer.

 

Thanks for the tip on the control arm. I have had the springs out and never even noticed the arm is the same as mine. Air Ride makes tubular arms for S10s, those would be a nice upgrade down the road.

There are a lot of hack-job minitruckers out there. I have an 8 valve system on my truck and it handles great. The Camaro will be getting an 8 valve system as well

I can get s10 front brackets for $80. That is well worth it considering the amount of time it would take me to fab that stuff.

 

I've not found the part numbers to be the same. Can you refure me to which years are interchageable? I would buy s10 drop control arms if so. 2.0" drop


Wish I still had my old s10 control arms laying around

 

yep...

have to change over to strut bags though if you want a good ride...just replacing the front springs with bags won't cut it.

 

i dont have a list of interchangable years... as far as i know they all have identical dimensions (2wd S10s...)

i dont know what year S10 it was, but i ran S10 front a arms on my 82 camaro for years before i sold it. they looked exactly like the stock ones and fit just fine.


however, i dont know anything about "drop control arms" im assuming they have the ball joint "up" in relation to the arm pivoit...


in anycase, im not thrilled about the PA/profab design, so im also looking at aftermarket a arms.. i just havent gotten too far into it since im not anywhere near the point of buying a set yet.

 

In drop control arms, the spring "bucket" is lower giving the extra drop. You can not use them with drop springs.

I may have to see if anyone has some s10 arms laying around.

 

Why do I have to have strut bags for a good ride? I was planning on using the same bags that I have on my truck. If the control arm is the same, the leverage ratio will be the same, it should ride the same. Maybe you could explain your theory a little.

 

if you haven't driven a car with both to compare there isn't much to tell you. there is a huge difference, if you think the bags in the front will be fine for you go ahead. it isn't a theory, it's a fact.

 

I just want to know the theory behind it. The guy from Air Ride said they are working on a kit that replaces the front spring with bag, like I will. I just don't see why it would ride any different than my S10 does.

 

do a search on coilover conversions...same theory only with more adjustment and smoother effect. it's difficult for me to explain because although i've done many suspension changes i can't technically discuss the theory behind it. driven both though and you can tell. however it's alot more expensive to run the strut bags. roughly $900 and some change so that has to be taken into consideration.

 

my GUESS would be something along the lines of this:

placing the airbag at the strut makes it take the load of the tire directly. placing it in the a arm makes the a arm act as a lever, giving a mechanical advantage over the bag.

this means that to hold the same amount of weight, the strut bag could have a lower pressure.

it also means that when a small rebound occurs. the lever of the A arm amplifies it to the wheels. and the little strut at the end has to dampen it.


meanwhile on a bag over strut setup, theres no lever, so theres no amplification of rebound bounce.... and the smaller amount that is there is directly absorbed by the strut since its right there.



anyhoo, thats my idea on the theory behind it. having never driven a bag over strut car, i cant say much else..

kandid may not have the technical background of some of us here, but he has tried alot of parts and setups, and he usually does a pretty good job of explaining the results of each.

 

The strut would have a smaller lever ratio because it acts closer to the tire than a bag in the stock location. The bag in stock location has around a 1:2 ratio to the tire. That means it will see roughly twice the load that a strut bag would see. Obviously, using the same bag on the strut and the stock location would not be optimal.

The solution to this is to use a different bag. I believe the struts use a bag more like an F9000, where I am using a 255c in the stock location. The 255c is designed to be used in a lever system, it is the bag that I use in my S10, and it is the bag that Air Ride uses in almost all of their front systems.

I will be ordering parts today for a customer's 91 convertible, so I should be able to tell you guys how it rides within a few weeks. I'll take lots of pictures.

 

just out of curiosity....where do you work 406 S10 man?

 

there are only 3 shops in the metro detroit area that i know will tackle the setup. all have done at least one thirdgen and all have turned out differently.

the way your talking about will work, just be sure to have all the bracing you can and if possible definately upgrade your struts up front otherwise the car won't handle as good as it could.

i was really surprised but my car handles better then it did with the old setups.

 

I sell laptops for a living, I work on cars for side jobs and extra cash. I'm using the money I make on this one to bag my wife's 91.

Parts are coming, stay tuned.

Kandied, I would like to see how low your car will go if the exhaust was not in the way. Can you take some pics of your car with blocks under the tires so I can see how low it will go? I did that with my truck to see what was holding it of the ground. If you can't do it don't worry about it.

 

k-member will rest on the ground if i remove the lt's...the struts are adjustable for this, the inner fenders have been worked to do so and the offset/backspacing is perfect to do so.

the rear will deflate til the gfx hit the ground, unfortunately you would have to run a very, very small exhaust to do this or route it differently from stock. so as it sits with the 4" exhaust 1.5" gfx to ground is as low as i can go.

plenty low enough in my opinion, although lower would be nice i don't want to loose my exhaust.

 

Wow. That is way lower than I thought it would go. It looks like the inner fender in the front is really going to be a problem. It is all structural, so I can't just remove it like I did on my truck.

How about taking a pic of the inner fender mods? That should not be too tough. You don't even have take the wheel off if you can get the camera up in there. I would really appreciate it.

The exhaust on my wife's car is about 1.25 inches lower than the frame in the y-pipe area and even with it in the back since it is only 3" pipe. I built the y-pipe with 2.5 inch mandrel bends and I don't think I can get it any higher.

Thanks.

 

you can always go higher....i actually had to oval my 4" for it to fit right over the axel. 3" really isn't that much smaller in comparison. you'd have to go down to as small as 2" really see anything worth while and it isn't worth it.

as far as inner fender mods. if your tires are the right offset/width you shouldn't have a problem. on the 91 you'll have a 3" gap between the side gfx and the ground before you need to worry about inner fender mods which is still pretty low. if you want it that much lower then basically need to replace the inner plastic with a custom piece. i had mine remolded to give me an extra 2" of travel.

here is a round about close up of the rear to show example when i first put it on....this is how much the exhaust hinders the setup.

up:

 

in this picture i have roughly 1" more i can go lower but it's very close to the 4" exhuast, i eventually bent it up by misjudging it a time or two. replaced it with an oval section and now it goes alot lower.

down:

 

Thanks for the pics. I hope you can keep them coming. I love seeing pics of your car. I think you said in an earlier post that those are boze wheels? They are bad. What is the backspacing on them?

I am going to run 18x9.5s with 5.875 bs on the back and 18x7 with 4 bs on the front. They should tuck very nicely.

 

18x8 front 18x10 rear with 4.75 front and 6.75 rear. it was a little tricky to tuck a 10" but it worked out nicely with some slight inner quarter work.

as i said if you want to know more just email me...this type of thing isn't looked upon much here so i just assume keep it off of the site.