I am almost ready to put my cage in getting it cleaned up right now just cant decide so help me out. Should i go with a 8 point or a 12 point full cage with front bars that goto the struts. It will mainly be a show car but some drag racing will be seen and maybe some autocross. I figured if i went with the 12 point i could go with a HSR and not need a stb. I dont know i just cant decide if i was going to use a stb i will probably go with a mini ram but i am still kinda of undecided on the intake i keep changing my mind. When i get it done i also might not want to drag race it at all cause thats what most guys do when there car is all done and nice and shiney underneath also. I do want some kind of roll bar or cage though. As far as the engine im being patient and holding onto my money cause i dont want to go off and buy parts now and want something else later so ill wait till the chassis is done till i buy the top end.

 

If yours is mainly going to be for show/driver I think the 8 point would be the better choice in your case.

If you plan on racing it, I look back all the time and wish I'd of just installed the 12 point and been done ONCE, now I gotta go back and and gut the interior again, mask off and cover the body now it's painted, remove the dash, etc...woould've been alot easier to just do it right the first time. But I use mine for bracket racing first and foremost, driver second.

 

IHI I did the 6 point with swing out door bars about 8 years ago. This year i took the car to have it made into a 10 point and have it cetified I never planed on going in the 9s 8 years ago. For you people out there that have a need for speed think ahead.

 

Mine is full race. Technically it's spec'd the same as a 12 point but I don't have the forward bars going through the firewall. I still haven't decided to put them in yet. There's a lot of work going through the firewall.

When building a 12 point cage, there are extra bars not included on a 10 point but can be added anyway.

There's a knee bar that ties the 2 A-piller bars together and it runs somewhere across the dash area.

My cage has X bars in the doors plus I added a sill bar. It runs along the floor and connects the main hoop to the A-piller bars. Sort of a SFC but inside the car.

For a street driven car with limited track use, an 8 point cage is enough. Don't forget that adding more bars also adds weight to the car.

Buying a cage kit is cheap. Having someone install it is where it costs money. Typically roll bar/cages are in the $100 - $150 per point installed. That's not including any interior removal and installation.

 

Yeh I already got a price quote for a custom 8 point cm roll bar. I guess thats what I will go with i dont think ill ever get into hard core racing with this car.

 

That’s only required if you modify the firewall…



That has been bugging me… the 9.99 and faster drawing in the rule book does show that thing, but I don’t believe that I’ve seen much talk about a sill bar and I know that I’ve seen some fast cars at the track without them. Are they actually required, or just recommended? If they’re required, would running them on the inside of the rockers below the floor (and running the main hoop and front bars throught he floor to meet it) be OK?



Show car or most people’s “race cars” I’d suggest go 6pt and don’t go through the hassle of the front bars/halo…. A lot of street cars with SFC’s I’d seriously suggest that people consider a 5pt.

For autox I don’t know that the front 2 points in a 12 point will really add that much, at least they will not add rigidity in the direction that you’re talking about. You could (and I’ve seen done on road race cars) run diagonals from the strut towers to a knee bar through the dash and then properly triangulate the connection at the knee bars, and I’m not sure that you’re really adding anything by running bars down from the strut towers to the front subframe, maybe possibly adding a slight bit of rigidity to the steering box/sway bar mounting areas, if you wanted to tie into there, but if that was your intention you’d want to add reinforcing plates that wrap around the subframe there, where I’ve never seen anyone actually even use reinforcing plates for the front bar points.

 

FWIW, I've looked at the few 3rd gen Outlaw cars we get and just about all of them had the factory firewall and instead of cutting through it to tie bars from the stb into the down bars/knee bar, they simply had a bar welded to the stb and then welded to the firewall-simple little short peiced of tubing tied into plates.

 

Hmm can you get some pictures.

 

It adds strength. A 12 point cage uses it.
Nothing in the rulebook saying you have to have anything for the slower cars. A 14 second car can have a funny car cage if it wants. My 15 second pickup truck has a driveshaft loop although it's not required. I decided I wanted the added protection of X bars at the doors plus a sill bar to help strengthen the unibody car. I would have added a bar across the roof from the driver front of the halo bar to the passenger rear near the main hoop but I ran out of 1-5/8" tubing. I also wanted the extra bar at the door going from the door bar up to the halo bar but I had no way to bend it.

Don't forget, the main purpose of a rollbar or cage is to protect the driver incase of a rollover. Sure a 12 second car doesn't need a rollbar but it's still crossing the finish line at over 100 mph.

 

I'm already considering that. Even if my forward bars went through the firewall, that's where they would attach to. I can't see having to go all the way to the forward part of the frame rails in our unibody cars.

 

yea, but again, it isn’t necessary unless you’ve modified the firewall, at least if you’re running slower then 7.49.



that wasn’t my point… I’ve seen fast cars without them, and I haven’t seen anything concrete that says you have to have it or where exactly it has to be located. If it is required (lets say for a a car intending to go 9’s) I still wonder if it could be put below or even through the floor (section the floor by the rocker and weld it into the floor).

The primary reason for the bar as per the rules is safety, the primary reason for most people for it is because they have to. I have to admit, that one of the things really high on my list is to stiffen the chassis in directions that I couldn’t stiffen otherwise. If I have to add the weight it might as well be helping me to go faster somehow.

Again, if you’re going to stiffen the chassis with it you should be reinforcing and spreading the load anyplace where it contacts any vaguely structural piece of the body…

 

i may have missed it but if he were to use a 12 pt and weld in bars from the firewall to the strut towers, would he need a STB? im considering this cause there is no way i can fit a
STB in my car with the custom intake and twin turbos in the position they are at.

 

I'm not an engineer, just going by what I've sen and maybe common sense?

If you install the cage and omit the bar running under the dash-this just helps with side load if you were to flip your lid or hit a guard rail sideways it'd spread out the force to the other side of the cage, also needed when fatory firewall has been modified. Just as sill bars are needed when factory floor has been modified.

As far as stb, if you already have a 10 point installed properly I dont think a dedicated stb is necessary. The bars going from firewall to stb might help somewhat to keep the front of the car from twisting with the torque of the motor, but being our cars are uni body and everything from the firewall back is ties together that "should" be strong enough for most guys running 6-700hp and under since the front of the car will have to put the twisting motion back into the **** pit area of the car since their uni-body. Most twisting you see with our cars with bars/cages and decsent hp is usually just body roll, not twisting of the chasis.

So I would not think it necessary to drill through firewall to install bars to stb, unless your installing/making your own front clip. Then that's a whole nother issue in itself.

Think I'd just install the 10 point and install the firewall to strut tower bars and not worry about going over the engine. I think the stb is intended more for cars without bars/cages as a "better than nothing" fix-just like sfc's.

 

makes sense....thanks. i think im just gonna weld to the firewall and STB that way no cuttin but still something is there for me to be at peace of mind

 

Im going with the 8 point and I might decide on custom sfc's also to attach to the cage but not sure yet. Car should be rdy to go by this weekend.

 

An eight point is legal to 10.000sec.

Most guys go w/that.

 

i just put a 6 point in mine and 10.0 is more than i would ever want to go.

 

The faster i go the happier i am

 

Wanna race?

I’ve pretty much decided that my next 3rd gen body will get ripped apart, cage put in, and then get the best drivetrain, suspension and inerior parts put in out of my formula and what I saved from my ’83.

I doubt that it will run faster then 10.0 right off the bat, but no use in building something that I’m just going to have to fix later. That and I like the idea of being able to use smaller bars for the main hoop and door bars if I go with more points…