i did a search on tgo and on internet search engines and cant find any aftermarket quick ratio steering boxes for our cars.

I guess they dont exist? I have a 90 iroc so i would assume i have the best stock option for a third gen. But i still think its way too loose. Is there nothing aftermarket thats 13.5:1 or better?

 

You can get a box rebuilt to be quick ratio. There are companies who do it.

The information has been posted on the boards before, you just have to search for it.

 

AGR makes Racing Steering Boxes and so does Lee's Power Steering. They have models to fit our cars.

BTW, 90 IROC's have a pretty good box. What do you mean by " It's too loose"? Does it have a lot of play on center? That can easily be adjusted you know.

 

It can be fixed as long as you don't tighten it too much. If you seize the box thats a bad thing.

 

I've got the AGR 12:1 box, also Lee Steering in CA can rebuild your's, Flaming River might make one as well.....

 

How is that AGR box? I've been looking for an aftermarket one with a quicker ratio for a while. I think the stops are messed up in mine. My turning circle is for ****, I usually have to do a 3pt turn just to park.

My wheel turns 2 1/4" lock to lock like a quick ratio box should.

 

I just ordered the AGR box from Summit. I should be getting it pretty soon...I've heard it's a nice piece...better be for $330 bones...

 

Isn't 12:1 a stock replacement for what i would have in my iroc?

As far as lee engineering in my searches everyone talks about them but has anyone actually had a box rebuilt by them to specs other then stock?

My car doesnt feel like it has more play in the steering then its supposed to, just more then i would like. I would like to be able to go to a 13" steering wheel and ideally be able to get down to 2 turns max from lock to lock.

 

Lee Power steering makes very fine products. Very well known in Racing Circles. Probably the reason that no one here has a box built for them... is the price. Quality is not cheap and quite frankly for the average user they are over kill.

All ball bearings in housing instead of bushings, custom ratios ( variable or straight ) and custom Spool Valves ( Controls amount of "feel" in steering ). They also make Racing quality Power Steering pumps, in both low and high volume.

Still don't understand what you are trying to say about play in the steering wheel play. A properly set up box with a GOOD steering linkage should have almost ZERO play. How can you get less than that?

Tighten the adjustment Sector Shaft Allen Bolt on the box untill all free play is " just " taken up when steering is centered.

DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN THE ADJUSTMENT. This is a finesse thing. The steering worm usually wears a bit more just near the center position. If you over tighten things, then the box can bind and it will also rapidly wear out the worm gear.

Take the car out for a drive and turn some sharp corners at low speeds. Steering should be smooth, with no tight spots, and should re-center when the steering wheel is released while turning. If steering has tight spots or will not re-center...then you've over tightened the adjustment. Back it off a tad. Note: If you cannot eliminate the off center freeplay without excessive adjustment ....then the box is just plane worn out.

Another important thing to check is the condition of the steering linkage. The " Monkey Motion " Drag Link style setup that is used by GM is subject to a lot of moving joints. Any wear in these components will create play in the steering that may feel like it's due to the steering box.

Have all the components checked carefully. Pay particular attention to the Idler arm and the Tie Rods. The Idler arm is the weakest link. Put the car up on a Hoist ( Preferrably a Ramp Hoist ) and yank up and down on the Drag link near the Idler Arm and watch for any vertical movement. Any Vertical Movement of Idler Arm means it's time for a new one.

Check all the other joints the same way vertically, then check the linkage for horizontal loads. A ramp Hoist makes this easier as the wheels will be loaded and you can easily see any movement of joints while a buddy turns the steering wheel slowly back and forth.

Check the Ball Joints as well by lifting the car till the wheels are off the ground a fair ways. Use jackstands for your own safety!!! Then place a looooong bar under the wheel and pry upwards. Look for any Vertical movement in balljoint. Any movement is too much. You know what to do.....time to buy some parts.

If you don't have the facilities of ramps or a Hoist, then have it checked out by a trustworthy ( I'll leave you to find that!! ) front end shop. Take it in for an inspection. Usually free. Then buy the parts ( Moog, TRW or Spicer recommended ) and install them yourself if you can't afford the labour. Out of courtesy I would at least return it to the shop for an alignment if you DIY.

A smaller steering wheel does help out. 13" is a bit too small IMHO. My Grant Signature wheel is 13.5" or 14"...can't remember. Feels good. Reasonable price too. With a smaller wheel you will have quicker response.

 

All of that is VERY good info and im going to go over all of that just because.

Play was totally the wrong word to use tho, It doesnt make much of a difference how big of a steering wheel i have (i said 13 because theres an omp wheel i like that comes in that size) my issue is that i dont want a round steering wheel i want one of the "racing" style where its flat on the bottom.

My issues are A) i just dont want to have to turn the steering wheel as far to get to lock to lock, so would like more steering input from less turns of the steering wheel.

and i guess my second issue is same thing, since i wont have a round steering wheel i dont want to have to go 360+ degrees from straight to hit lock.

Is there any box that can do this for me or am i looking at a custom built lee box? Also what price range for the lee would we be talking $400ish?

 

Well, the stock box is 2 3\4 turns lock to lock or 2 1\2. The Iroc box is 2 1\4 turns. Ratio is the same BTW. Iroc box has larger steering stops inside the box so that wider 16x8" wheels don't rub. So you're looking at a lot of money to get that 2 turns lock to lock.

The OMP wheel is very nice BTW. I've driven cars with flat bottom OMP and Momo wheels. after a short time you don't even notivce the flat on the bottom when turning sharply. If that's all that's bothering you I wouldn't worry about it. Street cars are not F1 cars. Ever try and parrallel park an F1 car??? LOL. Sometimes lots of lock can be a blessing.

Be carefull about getting a faster box. The IROC box is more than fast enough....even for Autocross. At the track ( Road Racing ) it approaches being TOO fast. You actually make very little steering movement in a properly setup car.

At speed, too quick of a Ratio can be a detriment. It just gets too sensitive. F1 cars, et all, actually have slower boxes than what we do. Around 16:1. They just don't turn tight corners. Same with Circle Track cars. The faster you go, the slower the steering movement needs to be.

If you're having to put a lot of steering wheel movement in at say an Autocross, IE: getting a lot of understeer. Then look at your driving style and car setup. I seldom use more than 1\2 to 3\4 turn even in the Tightest hairpin in an Autocros.

A better change IMHO is to get a custom " Spool " valve installed. This will give more " Feel" to the wheel and more resistance while turning. You may want to talk to AGR or Lee about Custom oriface valves for the PS pump. These need to be changed as well.


LEE MFG. CO.
11661 Pendleton Street
Sun Valley, CA 91352
Ph.(818)768-0371
Fax.(818)768-2687


http://www.agrperformance.com/

PS: I should mention something. Lock to lock doesn't mean a lot. It is RATIO that is important. Real Road Racing cars have small lock to locks because they can't turn the wheels very far. They don't need to for one thing. They actually have HUGE turning circles at low speeds. Can't even turn into the garage without backing up several times. And as mentioned...the faster you go the SLOWER the ratio you need.

Our cars actually have one of the fastest ratios available ( Street or Racing). 12.7 to 1. That's the fastest ratio that Lee and AGR offer. Anything faster is just NOT required in the Racing world. I'm sure they could put thicker steering stops in to limit the Turns Lock to Lock....but why bother?

 

The AGR box I'm getting is 12.1:1...I guess it's even faster than the IROC's??

 

Again super informative!!! I appreciate the long reply youve made sense of a lot of stuff for me and it is much appreciated.

Ill see if anywhere near me can do something with a custom spool valve. Being up in Ontario Canada makes dealing with companies in the states a bit expensive. If not ill probably send away to lee. Thanks again! much appreciated.

 

FWIW, Larry Whitlow at Circle Track Steering does rebuilds too, or outright purchases. Standard rebuilds are $125 when you send in your core. http://www.circletracksteering.com/products.htm You can request different tensions or if you need a particular configuration, give Larry a call for pricing. He does good work.

 

Look carefully at the details. The advertised 12:1 is actually12.7:1 when you look at the Tech Specs.

 

I had my 88 IROC steering box rebuild at Lee's and they did an outstanding job. They had a higher effort valve installed and bronzed the worm shaft, plus all new parts. Fast turn around and the box came back looking better than new(powder coated). Box has much better feel and is tighter(good). AGR is okay, they are new to the steering game.
Lee's Steering is not much into the Internet, you must call them.
I think my rebuild was about $250.

 

That's still kewl...at least it's quick ratio...HAS to be better than my played out box that probably has the wrong stops...originally for 15" rims, now I have 17's...should be a nice upgrade

 

You bet...I think you'll enjoy it

 

I have a general question about The steering boxes that came in the different years, and different models. Since there were some people very knowledgeable above, how many different steering box's came in the Third Gen from 82-92? What were the ratio's? Did 1LE or B4C have anything different? Z28 or IROC vs RS? I noticed on other Hot Rod buildups, the Third Gen box seems to be chioce for restores and such...I am just curious, and like to know as much as i can on this if possible.

Thanks!

 

My AGR is 12.7:1 w/ a 220 valve, stock

 

Kaotik- If you do a search you will get a wealth of info . The best boxes were from IROCs with 16 inch rims, GTA-Trans-Am.

As for rebuilding the steering box, a higher effort valve 220-240 will really make the car more responsive with better road feel.

Sidenote: Lee's has a steering box dyno that they use when they rebuild-test steering boxes.

Also sometimes the local parts stores can get you a 12:1 rebuild box pretty cheap.