I just put the moog springs MOG-5662 in my car. it is sitting at 29 inches. I have the spring positioned right and I put new isolators on. Is this how the car sat originally. how much of this spring should I cut to get it about 2inches shorter. the only good thing about the ride hieght is that I can get a jack under the car with no problem.

Also the stock spring which was a v-6 spring in a 91 firebird was way taller than this spring. the coils were also thinner than the moog spring.

I need some help from the spring cutting guru's please

 

Please don't let this be another case of you having to let the spring settle.

 

what do you mean let the spring settle?

As far as putting new springs on a car I am green

 

sounds like you either have the wrong spring or the springs isnt in there correctly.

You sure your not bound up in the upper spring pocket?

 

I believe all new springs take a while for the spring to settle (compress).

 

i am going to go double check if the spring is in the upper pocket.

 

the spring pocket is all good and the drain whole situation is ok. Maybe I have never seen an f-body at stock hieght. All my cars I could never get a jack under the side without putting a 2x4 down and drive on it.

 

thats because the springs sag over time.

the modern car look we're used to wasnt the same in the 80s... the 4x4ish look was normal for a car...


you can cut a half coil to a full coil off and see how it sits...
the stock moog springs dont really "settle".. it takes decades for them to get that 1 to 2" saggy drop... lol.

 

thanks I appreciate the info. I think I will take it apart again.

hurray!!!!

 

Mr dude 1, there is nothing I like more than someone who knows what they are talking about. I looked at 91 formula's and it looks you could run a train through the space inbetween the tire and the fender.

I am going to cut the springs. If anyone wants to tell me why I shouldn't please don't. It is my fault in the first place for buying them and if "I" meaning me do not like the ride I will buy lowering springs and chalk up another one.

you say 1/2 to full coil. I do not want to have it as low as before but I do not want to have a bronco. I am thinking 2/3 of a coil to start. I will take before and after pics with results

I wish there were more people who knew WTF they were talking about!!!!

 

while its off, goto the store and get some heater hose.. get whatever size slides firmly onto the spring.

lube the spring well, and slip it on after you cut it.... run that in place of the spring isolator.


it lowers the car some, because its not as thick, and it fits on the now cut spring better...

 

here is what it looked like when I started

 

here is a brand new formula

 

just in case you somehow do not know.... cut the spring with a grinder or hack saw.... DO NOT USE A TORCH!!!! springs are heat treated and heating them up by tourch cutting will make the car ride like a skateboard. you probably allredy know this (it seems like common sense) but i thought somone should mention it.

sorry if i have insulted your inteligence, it was not my intent

 

If it were me I would remove the springs, sell them, buy specific rate/height springs, and install those. I'm not exactly against cutting springs, I just personally prefer to run springs that have a verified spring rate.

 

I am going to cut the springs with a die grinder. that was not a dumb statement about the torch. and I will probably use lowering springs if I am displeased with the ride. I am trying to cut down on the spending (not really).

I just replaced the center link the tie rods and sleeves the ball joints and the control arm bushings. I hate spending money twice for the same part. it happens I know but I have an unlimited supply of time and unfortunatly not unlimited money or I would have a new vette Z07 super hot.

thanks for all your help

 

Are the springs installed upside down?

The tops should be flat and the bottom should have a 1/2 coil left that feed into the slot on the a arm.

If installed this way they would stand high like you mentioned. Or this could be the stock ride height. Its been a lond time since any of these stock ride heights were new.

When you cut. Cut the end that is not flat.

Also the rate is about 43% for rough estimates. By this I mean cutting 43% of an inch off the height of the spring will lower the ride height 1 inch. Based on the a arm ratio.

I suggest the following method.

Support car with jack stands on the frame rails or cross member.

Take the spring out of the car. Leave sway bar disconnected.

Reinstall strut.

Put jack under a arm.

Put tire on spindle jack the arm to the desired ride height by looking at the space between tire and fender lip.

take tie off.

measure the average distance between the between the spring bucket up top and the bucket on the bottom. Pick several measuring locations. I measure fron the inside of the hole in the a arm on the tire side of the hole to the spring bucket. make sure you ge repeatble results.

Add a litttle to the measurement 7/16? and cut spring to that lenght. If you know the spring rate and weight on that corner you can be more exact when compensating for compression.

Practice with you old springs first.

I have used this method not when cutting springs but when adjusting weight jacks for the first time.

It works.

 

Earlier cars were actually worse… somewhere around the mid 80’s and older they even look like 4x4’s with sagged stock springs.

Nothing wrong with cutting springs, just make sure that you understand that spring rate will go up proportionately to the ammount that you decrease the number of free coils.

No, you do not want to overheat springs.

That being said, if you know what you’re doing with a cutting torch it will work fine, you really shouldn’t be getting that much heat into the metal besides the localized area where you’re making the cut.

OTOH, I usually just use an angle grinder because it’s faster/cleaner/more accurate.

 

I don’t get it. You cut a specific rate spring and you get a specific rate spring with a higher rate. You want to know what the rate will be calculate it, that’s what the spring manufacturer does, you don’t think that they actually take and test each spring, do you? If you really want to measure the exact rate then there’s dozens of ways to rig something using a scale and some means for compressing the spring some.

Um, yea… good luck. If you’ve had luck with this then, well, it was just that, you got lucky, but it sounds like you just used this to mess with weight jacks rather then cutting springs. That will end up with different ride heights depending on the spring rate that you’re starting with.

If you want to try to predict where to cut springs with something like that then the only way to do it is to figure out how much the springs that are in the car are compressed, calculate how much weight they are supporting from that number and the spring rate, and then recalculate with the new, cut spring rate (rate and the weight you got from the previous calculation) and then figure that you’ll see about 2.5x that change at the wheel.

Don’t waste your time. Trim some and try it, it will go quicker then trying to figure this out (believe me, I like calculating everything, and this one is not worth it). For that matter, like I’ve said before, cut the springs to get the rate that you want and then use different thickness spring isolators to get the height you want.

Another thought, if you really want to be **** retentive, I would suggest heating and bending the last half coil of the spring in against the next coil so it sits like the stock spring. In the greater scheme of things it is unnecessary, but if you’re **** retentive it will let the spring sit in the pocket and react the same as the stock spring

 

Hey we talked about my spring rate dis-trusts before (hehe), its just my own personal opinion. I know there are ways to calculate, but me, I just dont trust any of them. Dosnt mean other people have to be like me, thats just my personal opinion. I only trust rates as advertised from a manufacturer.

 

OK we are getting a bit to technical for my tastes. Not that theres anything wrong with that (Sienfeld). The springs are not upside down and the car sits like the black formula with the window sticker on it up top. if you pay attention the front of the car is sitting higher than the rear.

Ugly Ugly and not cool at all. I am going to cut about 2/3 of a coil of each spring.

Now here is something we can get technical about the left side of my car is always a half inch higher than the right. even with the old springs and the old sterring linkage I had a 1/2 inch difference.

 

i can only go by feel since i cant measure them, but i can say that a new moog WS6 spring with one coil cut off feels great on a SBC thirdgen..

im not a racer and im not doing math to figure out the spring number.. but even if you gave me the number, it would be worthless.. lol.. i couldnt tell you what lb rate makes the car feel good...

but while we're on the subject... what are you running for rear springs? my fronts are great, but i cant find anything im happy with for the rears.. i want something stiffer then stock replacement..


index your springs.
make sure that the front springs are clocked the same side to side
make sure your rear springs are clocked the same.

if one is one direction, and the other is another direction, it will make the car sit crooked...

 

the rear springs are stock and they are ws6 springs out of the 89 formula that I got my current drivetrain out of. I was thinking of cutting those as well. just a little bit. the rear of my car seems to handle a lot better after new rear control arms and panhard bar. the best improvment was the torque arm bushing upgrade.

I think that the reason my car sits a 1/2 in higher on one side is because thats the side I always jack it from and as far as how to measure/ make sure both front tires have the same amount of air in them and measure from the ground to the top of the fenderwell

 

heres a pic of the after install it looks like the black formula

 

here is the new formula again

what good does it do to have the front sitting higher than the rear. DE DE DE

 

1 coil- about 770lb/in. how high does it sit now? It should eventually sag far enough that it will be a little too low for street use (sitting on the bump stops).

How much stiffer? Usually anything above about 200lbs is too much unless you have really stiff fronts or a very small rear sway bar. One coil cut off of the WS6 rears should put them around 190lb/in, I would really recommend about ½-3/4 of a coil and then lower the rest with a thinner isolator…

 

Just a little bit of info here. The Moog 5662 springs are supposed to be IROC replacement springs, but have a little higher rate than the factory ones. If you are planning on cutting a 1/2 to 3/4 of a coil, this will make them even higher rate (stiffer). If thats what you are shooting for, then excellent.

if you are trying to get the ride height with the nominal rate that the 5662's have, you might try the 5660's, which are a little less full length, when trimmed, would put you right back near the 5662's.

somewhat related, we have 5662's in my brother's regal, and it sits just about right, pretty much even (no drop), but if the rate is too high(drives like a truck), we will probably step down to the 5660's. So we've been checking out rates and options, that why I'm suggesting that to you. this is with 2" drop spindles too, so they are stiff!

 

yeah we will see what happens. where did you get your info about what type of springs these are. Summit says they are 305 firebird springs for 91-92 cars. If it does not work out I will go with lowering springs.

 

well, 1/2 a coil drops it less then a 1/2 inch from where it sits full height.... but every bit you cut off from there progressively lowers the car more and more.

about 1 coil is about "normal ride height".. its not very low. you would still go down with lowering springs.

true, 15 to 20 years from now, they will sag and be low... but not on the bumpstops... they would be..... around a inch or so lower then the saggy stock springs that 80% of the people here drive around on everyday.
if it bugs you, spend the $50 again and buy new front springs. $50 every 17 years is only $0.0024 a day.....(not counting leap year days) lol.


jamon8:
springs are one of thoes things that might be cheaper to buy locally... might as well look before buying from summit.

 

the g-body guys are all over springs and ride heights, becuase they do alot of v-6 to v-8 swapping, big blocks, etc.

www.maliburacing.com has some links, there is also this site I found in a quick search:
http://www.show-n-go.net/gfiles/g_spring.html

as MrDude mentioned, you might get springs cheaper locally at most part stores. You might have to wait a day to have them drop them at the stores, but usually they are not alot of $$$$, compared to mail order and shipping costs.

 

true.
I know with the rx7's from the 80's it's not uncommon to put a set of lowering springs on the car to replace the stock springs and end up with a higher ride then what you had with stock springs. I could swear I have heard th same thing with thirdgens f-bodies also.

nice thing about 10-20 years of 3000lbs of metal pushing down on 4 little springs. they get worn down a little bit and start to sag.

 

I wouldn't jump in and cut a full coil off the 5662's, I did because I didn't seat my springs correctly the first time I tried them. It was bad, I couldn't even get the jack out from under the car. I would try a half a coil first and go from there. That should drop you about an inch to an inch and a half from where your are now. Also you need to find out which springs you got, some "RS" springs are only 420 lb/in.

 

i put a set of OEM replacment springs on my firebird and had the m in for two years and they never "Settled"

 

well its going to the alignment shop this weekend. I decided that I like the fact that I can get a jack under my car. I could choose to do something with it later but right now I have better things to put together so she will be road worthy in the spring.

I cant wait, I have been building this car for over 3 Years!!!

 

Thats how mine looks with stock 86K WS6 springs. What is your ground clearance to fender? I have 27.5in from ground to fender and 28.5 ground to fender in the rear.

 

ok hold on to your hats. I cut the springs today. no matter how much I told myself it looks ok, I knew it looked like a bronco.

here is how much I cut off and I am so glad I did not listen to the majority of you guys but for those of you who know what you are talking about I solute you

 

now how do you think it looks with half a coil removed

 

here is the before picture so you do not have to go up and down

 

Looks alot better

 

um, still looks like a 4x4, but much better. What is your height from the ground to the edge of the fender?

 

its about 27 1/4. the car did not ride like a go cart. but i had a lot of play in the steering column. I am going to do the adjustment on the gear box and replace the rag joint.

I can still fit a jack under the car and that is key. Does anyone know what type of gearbox came in the 91 v-6 3.1 car that came with the ground effects package?

 

the lock to lock was 2.5 and I adjusted the worn gear. minty

 

I can still fit a jack under the car and that is key. Does anyone know what type of gearbox came in the 91 v-6 3.1 car that came with the ground effects package? [/B][/QUOTE]

Why did you get the v-8 springs if you have a v-6?

 

the only thing that remotely would make you able to tell the car had a v-6 is the vin #

the original gear box had 2.5 lock to lock in my 3.1 ground effects car.