Alright, so my bird was wrecked when I got her, so me and my stepdad replaced all the front suspension and got her ready to go and everything. Today we took her off jackstands and now it looks like it's on some sort of freakish growth hormone...... Is this normal? Sorry for the clutter in the pic, and I wish she were a little nicer looking, but I am still trying to fix the suspension......

It looked normal before we hooked up the sway bar. The old one was bent, so we went with a replacement from Hawks, a 1-1/4" solid front sway bar. It was hard to get it in place.....So is this fine, or did I do something wrong?

 

Wow, she is sitting pretty high, huh?

Did you remove and replace the control arms? If so, and you torqued them down to spec with the car off the ground, this could be part of your problem. When installing control arms, you want to just snug them up with the car in the air, and then torque them to spec when the weight of the car is on the arms i.e. when it is sitting with the tires on the ground. Otherwise, the arms might bind, causing the front to sit up high.

Did you also install new front springs? Springs might settle a bit over time, but the front of the car definitely looks higher than what would be caused just by new springs, unless they were incorrect for the car.

As for the swaybar, I can't comment on that, perhaps someone else here can help in that regard.

Keep us posted.

 

The Driver's side got a new spring and a new strut, the pass side also got a new a-arm. We didn't touch the Control Arms. Maybe the springs will settle over time? if it is indeed the springs. I am also going to replace the struts in the rear, which will hopefully bring the rear up some, maybe it won't look so bad then.....

 

When I refer to the control arms, I am referring to the parts also known as "A-arms" of which you say one was replaced on the passenger side...are we talking about the same part here?

I'd be a bit concerned with putting a new spring and strut on one side and not the other...seems to me that with suspension parts, you'd want them matched on each side, so that you don't have a worn out spring reacting to the road on one side and a nice new spring working on the other...but maybe I am just paranoid

Do both sides of the front of the car sit at the same height right now?

 

Yes, both sides sit at the same height. We replaced the springs and struts on both sides. I agree with your "paranoia." It's usually easier to just replace both sides at once, so everything wears evenly.....

and the part that I am referring to as the A-Arm is the part that the spring perches on, and which the sway bar, and the strut bolts to.

 

Did you replace the springs with new, oem springs? Original springs will ride a lot higher than you'd expect. Do a search and you'll find some before and after photos.

Are the springs indexed correctly? There's a pocket on the a-arms that the free spring end must sit in. It's on the inside of the a-arm spring pocket at a drain hole.

Shouldn't be the sway bar causing the problem, but you can loosen it to check. Also make sure your a-arms are torqued with weight on them like Bull said.

 

Hmm, and they were the right V6 springs and all?

 

I assume they were, as I did not purchase them. Perhaps they gavemy stepdad the wrong springs. Might be the reason for me to do a motor swap........

 

look at the spring it should be sitting up in the pocket in the cross member. Lots of people have this problem, the spring will go in kind of crooked and hang up on the edge of the spring seat this will cause them to ride a ton higher like i'm seeing in that picture. And make good and sure they are up there cause they can be deciving. this has happened to me, my friend, and countless others on the site.

 

It's most likely the springs causing the car to sit like that.

Also, it's not a good idea to put a beefy sway bar up front and not match it in the back. Because if you go into a turn and the front of the car is stable, but the rear wants to roll over, you can fish-tail the car. You shouldn't have to worry about it, but be aware.

 

you prob purchased stock height springs, or v8 springs...if they were stock height springs, welcome to 1991

 

The new springs aren't seated correctly. Seen it many times. As was mentioned before, make sure they are in the seats correctly and they are the correct spring for the car.

 

This without a doubt is causing the problem. I had a set of Eibach Sportline Springs installed. I got the car back thinking it was going to be slammed. When I got it back, the front was up like 4 inches...and the back was really low. I took it back and the front springs were installed wrong....not "in the pocket" causing the spring to not seat in the correct spot.

 

On the topic of ride height, and seeiing that people with spring experience are reading this, I thought this question would fit nicely without cluttering the boards with another spring Topic.

My ride is too soft now, but I do not want to go to the extreme and get a harsh ride. I also want to keep the lowered look. Is it better to get the Moog IROC replacement springs and cut them for the lowered look, or just go with the Eibach pro kit? Spohn lists the spring rates:
Eibach Pro-kit
F: 714 lb/in
R: 109-177 lb/in progressive rear

Moog IROC Stock Replacement:
Front - 649 @ load height
Rear - 107 @ load height

Is 65 lbs/in in the front that harsh of a difference?

 

I never considered the fact that this car had been riding for 15 year on the same springs. I think that this is just stock ride heigth. I went back outside and took a quick peek again, and it's really not that high off the ground. I think the saggy springs in the rear is providing such a contrast that it makes it look worse than it is. I'll still check to make sure that the springs are sitting where they should, but I think that I'll just have to get used to having a 1991 Firebird with stock ride height.......

 

that looks considerably higher than stock.. it looks more like a project car with no motor in it.
Stock ride hieght on my firebird was and is, (ws6 springs original and currently RS) right around 3", top of tire to wheel arch.

friend had the same problem installing lowering springs on his v6.. the spring was not installed properly in the pocket in the the crossmember... for drop springs, it was even higher than stock height compared to my 'bird...

 

If it does turn out to be the springs, is there a way to fix that without ripping the whole suspension apart again? This suspension was supposed to be put back together for my birthday (November 28th) and it just got done today. I don't know if I want my stepdad ripping it apart again....... I might take it into a shp and have them check it out. I'm not very knowledgeable about suspension, and between highschool and a part time job........I don't get much free time......

 

i've rebuilt my front suspension and judging by the way I had to put the springs back in, yours may not be seated properly, but I'm aware they used very different springs between the v6's and 8's, and my personal guess would be that you have the v-8 springs, since judging by how hard it was to replace worn springs properly, putting in new v-6 springs improperly would seem practically impossible.

especially in the front yard of your house with nothing but I'm assuming a jack or two to assist you.

if you have the ability, i would suggest going to whatever store you bought it from(i missed if you mentioned it) and double checking the part number of the one you bought to the specific v-6 one that it'll show on their screens, that at least could save you some time in figuring out what's wrong.

 

Deadbird, thanks for that pic.
I've been looking for a stock ride height pic (or pic of stock replacement springs) for months!

 

Sully.. the above pic is of said friends camaro with the drop springs improperly installed. Sorry for not being fully clear on that.

Here is an actual stock height picture from the side though..

 

Haha gotcha! People say the 80's had a higher look but that camaro looked a little toooo high.

I actually like the ride height of that ta. I'm just so used to my lower ride height from age that I may just go with the eibachs.

Deadbird, do you happen to have pics of your friends maro after the lowering springs were installed correctly?
Any comment on stock replacement springs ride comfort to lowering springs comfort?

Thanks again.

 

just go ahead and put lowering springs in it, i went with drop zones. cheap and they look nice. there not as short as eibach springs so the drop wont be that aggresive.

 

I was talking with my stepdad, and he said that it wasn't sitting that high until he attached the sway bar. Is it possible to have too big of a sway bar causing that? I am fine with the stock ride heigth, as my town has really bad roads so that will help me save the remaining ground effects.

I am not liking the thought of taking all that suspension off again....

 

Yes, the sway bar could have been attached with the weight off of the suspension and torqued. The bar could possibly bind at the bushings and keep the suspension from settling. You installed an aftermarket bar? If it came with poly bushings there should have been some grease supplied with them. The bar should rotate pretty freely in the bushings, so it would not normally bind like this. The bushings may have been too small or no grease used.

Loosen the brackets to see if the bar will rotate some; or disconnect the end links. Easy to check.

 

When I got my car, the endlinks were shot and the sway bar was basically disconnected. After installing new endlinks (regular 'ol moogs) the car rose about a half an inch from where it used to be.

I'll look for the post, but there is a pic of someone who has the sway bar installed upside down. They realized it before they lowered it, but for the he|| of it check to make sure the sway bar is installed correctly (not upside down). That would DEFINETELY jack the car up ridiculously high.

 

My 'bird originally had WS6 springs which, sat the car a little higher than picured. Rock hard. The RS springs.. a touch lower.. prteey modest ride comfort.. or as well as it gets I suppose. I had hotchkis drop springs.. to low, to harsh. I may try cutting these down the road if I ever get that far with re-assembly. If that idea sucks.. may try some eiabachs (sp?) as they seem to be the way to go according to reading opinions.

Pillsbry10 (member here) is the owner of the camaro.. he lives about a mile or so away.

Here's a fixed side shot.. doesn't look much lower than my 'bird but, it definaty is..

 

hey, what kind of rims are those that he has on that camaro? I kinda like the look!

 

They look like the rims on the 96 impalla.

 

Good Evening! This is more oriented towards DEADBIRD'S prior January Post.

You provided us with a before and an after attatched photo's of the blue camaro which is really helpful, thanks. Regarding the 2nd shot, where the front spring height has been corrected;
The car still looks higher in the front compared to the rear. However; the front dosn't look to high up. Would you be willing to clarify what springs he actually ended up with front AND rear???

The reason I'm asking, is that I'm looking for more of a pleasant suspension rake, such as the one given with the INTRAX springs, without going as close to the ground as the Intrax (Really bad roads in my neck of the woods). Yet, the spring set-up on the blue Camaro is waaaayyyy to level for me (what do you think?) In Addition; I'm attempting to put together a 'cheat-sheet' of comparison's between all the major spring replacement players that I can later post
Did I explain what I'm after well enough???
Thanks; Nitro

 

Hey the same thing happened to my camaro after my dad and I redid the whole front end. We replaced everything but the springs since those were fine and were the f41 springs. But anyways after we got it all done we lowered it and the car sat up just like yours in the front end. So all I did was get in the car start it up and turn the steering wheel both ways and then the front end just settled down in its correct ride height. Also you WILL need a front end alignment done.

 

The car belongs to Pillsbry10 (member here).. he would be best at answering your question of what springs he went with. IIRC though.. it's a company that is more concentrated on domestic/import 4/6cyl cars.

A pic taken a certain way will look off from really viewing it.
Pills car has a pretty agressive stance since the fronts settled slightly... though quite the PITA to get a floorjack onder it

 

When I was old enough to drive, my buddies and I would line our cars up side by side, stick a little hydrolic bottle jack under the front of them, just far back enough so it would dissapear into the shadows, raise the fronts wheels up off the ground, throw smoke bombs under the back tires and start snapping fake drag racing pictures to show off to the girls and our cousin's back on the farm.

Now we send pictures to the same cousins, showing how we have to use lightweight NASCAR type of jacks just to change a flat tyre!

Car's may be one of the worst possible investments to make, but they sure are a heck of a lot of fun!!!

Regarding this last photo of your buddies car, it does look a whole lot more level than the first two which looked more like the back end was lower than the front.
This last weekend on 'Powerblock TV' they took a 4th generation SS Camaro that they've been working on for the past year and switched it all out to air bag suspension. Even with the more sophisticated factory setups they made for the 4th Gens, apperently the airbags made a vast improvement. I'm hoping that in a couple more years there'll be a whole lot more competition in the market that it'll drive the price down 40 to 50% so we can start affording to swap out our 3rd generations.
The whole concept of setting/mapping out air pressure at the 4 bags for every type of racing or driving situation totally fascinates me. Lot's of potholes: raise'em up an extra 5 pounds. Low city driveways, drop 'em 10 pounds Dano'. This is a good time for us enthusiasts to be alive!!!
Nitro

P.S.; thanks for hooking us up with Pillsbury so we can ask some questions. G'night.