91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

Ok since the search function is down and using the Google route takes too much time, I figured I would just ask. I read some where, I think atleast, that the early 80's S10 boxes won't work, but the later ones will. Can some one tell the difference between the 2 or is there very little at all? Something about a 3 bolt top compared to a 4 bolt top, anyone know how?? Reason I ask is I am looking at one on Ebay and would hate to get something I cannot use. HOWEVER if it needs modification to fit if it is the older style, I don't car, I already have modded the snot out of the car with manual brakes and such, so any info is appreciated.

BTW Stephen 87 IROC, your pics of your manual brakes set up help me a ton with my swap, and I am sure you will chime in here and thanks again!!

Smokin87TA

iTrader: (2)

I just did this swap and it was extremely easy. Pull one from a 83 or newer S10 and bolt it on. The manual steering boxes were only available in the S trucks that had a 4 cylinder engine but not all 4 cylinder models have manual steering. You want the version with the 4 bolt top cover(this just means it is the newer box). Just pull all of your power steering stuff swap the pitman arm from the power box to the manual box, and install.

AlkyIROC

Glad the pics helped. It's not a pretty swap but it works.

Can't add much to the above about the steering box. It's just about a full quote from one of my other threads. I can't confirm how well on older box will fit. I know GM changed the input shaft size and sector shaft size but I don't know the exact years. Normally the older, smaller boxes use a smaller sector shaft and spline count. This means your f-body pitman arm won't fit on the earlier manual boxes. You should be using the third gen pitman arm. It has the same offset but is a different length than the S-10 pitman arm. Using the proper parts keeps the steering geometry correct.

Some people have said they have clearance issues when installing a manual box. The sway bar or mounting brackets get in the way or the steering box hits on something. Since I have nothing like that in the way on my car, my S10 box was a simple bolt in.

As mentioned above, find the late model larger manual box. Easily identifiable by the 4 bolt top cover. This will be a no brainer, easy swap.

There's always at least one S10 manual steering box available on Ebay. They typically sell for $30-$100 depending on the demand.

Smokin87TA

iTrader: (2)

Actually stephen is right and i forgot to mention that i origionally tried to put the box on with the swaybar bracket but i does get in the way. I wasnt using a front swaybar anyway so i just removed the bracket from the frame and used one washer on each bolt to make sure the box had clearence on the framerail. It fit perfectly and doesnt bind at all.

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

Thanks guys, I think I am going to write up some tech articles (or atleast try to) so people who do this and the manual brake swap have something to go off of. And I am removing my sway bar anyway so it all works out.

vorgath

Advantages vs disadvantages regarding this swap ?

Is this a complete "delete power steering" deal ? Any weight savings ?

soultron

iTrader: (2)

Sounds pretty straight forward, but what is the steering ratio of the manual boxes?

Smokin87TA

iTrader: (2)

Yes it saves weight how much probably not more than 40lbs. whaterver the pump, fluid, lines, belts, and there is alittle difference in the boxes. The other gain is from not loosing horsepower to the pump. I believe there are a couple of people on here that have done the manual box swap and a electric water pump and have gained .5 and .6 in the quarter.

The manual box is 7 turns lock to lock but that makes it easier to turn. I believe the power box is 4 or somthing. All in all the swap is extremely easy and it is really not as hard to steer the car, especially at 10mph and up.

vorgath

40 lbs is an ENORMOUS weight saving.

7 turns compared to 4 turns (power box, is that the Z28 box or the RS box ?).


So how is it at highway speeds, does it feel similar to stock or somewhat looser due to 7 turns ?

Does one have to turn the steering wheel a bit more than usual, at say 40-65 mph, i.e. on ramp or off ramp to a freeway ?


I have a power steering leak somewhere, so this would solve one problem for me, plus add advantages, such as weight savings and unclutter the engine bay.

Smokin87TA

iTrader: (2)

Actually i just had the car on the highway today and it actually felt pretty good. I do have 3.5" skinnies up front, 90/10 shocks, drag springs and no sway bar. So this is definitely not a corner carver by all means but it still felt pretty tight.

90firebird

I just hope you don't have to do alot of parallel parking..

vorgath

Well I'm actually used to no power steering, my wife's old SAAB's power steering was completely broke, so it was more manual than anything else, and my old Fiat had no power steering either.

What I was wondering about was how tight it is at highway speeds compared to the power box.

AC398

im a little confused about the part where you said the 83's and up had a 4 bolt top cover. Im looking at a manual box on ebay right now and he says that the box includes the 3 frame bolts. is the 4 bolt top cover something different than the top cover. I dont know much about steering boxes, so will this box work for my car, it should since its an 87, IM thinking the frame bolts and the 4 bolt top cover are 2 different things?

Smokin87TA

iTrader: (2)

yes they are 2 different things. All boxes use 3 bolts to bolt to the frame. As long as the actual steering box has 4 bolts on the top cover then it will work.

AlkyIROC

That's a 4 bolt top cover version. It will be a direct bolt in however the pitman arm should be replaced with the third gen pitman arm. They're different lengths.



That's a 3 bolt top cover version. This will bolt in but the input shaft and pitman arm/shaft will probably be different making it a harder swap. This one includes the rag joint which makes the swap a little easier.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

just fyi, i've got one on my daily driver and i wanted to say that it take a day or two to get used to, but once you've driven it for a while, it's just like anything else.

vorgath

How would you compare it to a standardThirdGen power steering, driving down the streets, taking corners, freeway driving etc ?

I'm using a small steering wheel, believe it's 13 inches, old Grant so...

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i had a 13" grant on my car when i first put the car back together. it made it pretty tough in parking lots so i put the stock wheel back in her. with a 205/70/15 front tire i have no problems with 1 hand in a parking lot now since i've gone back to the larger steering wheel.

on the highway, it's a little bit looser, but that's cause of the ratio, it's just like driving anything else with manual steering.

jtparffrey

How different is a 1991 manual steering gearbox to a 1998 for an S10.
I am involved in modifying a 1939 Pontiac which I unfortunately replaced the front end frame and suspension with a '91 S10 Clip.
I replaced the original steering column with a Chevy column, including an ingenious u-joint shaft assembly to connect from the column to the gearbox.
I'm switching out the power steering with the manual box.
Can the 98 fit on the 91 frame?