Ok, I have ground control weight jackers and my car is slammed. Looks great however I only have about 1 inch of travel in my front struts and if i hit a decent bumb they bottom out. I already have 1250lb springs in the front, i was wondering if anyone makes a shorter strut for 3rd gen's to allow me to get more travel out of the strut. Before you even mention it, the car isn't getting raised, the stance is sick.

Thanks,
Rich

 

Raise the strut mount. There's space to do that.

 

pics?

 

The srtut mount is already raised 3/4", I added adjustable strut mounts that raised it with spacers. I'll try to get pics.

 

I would also love to see this setup, my struts could use some more wiggle room because I'm riding on 225 pound front coilovers.

 

i saw your car domain the car looks sick

question what kind of springs are you running?

 

Thanks, but the car is a lot lower now and has a completely different stance. The springs used for those pics are the Intrax lowering springs. Now i'm using the ground control weight jackers.

 

I don't know of any shorter struts, but I can't imagine being as low as you describe being good on the struts. KONIs might help by offering more dampning. Plus, they'll be less likely to fatigue under that much lowering.

 

Yea, what you said is the same thing i hear a lot. I'm just going to start calling different companies and see if they can steer me in the right direction. I'll try to get some pics for you guys, probably as i'm putting it in storage. Actually here's a video of my car after i lowered it, short but sweet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e11t16zZuRU

 

How do you figure you think you have 1250 lb rate springs on front?i can see you do not simply from your video you linked. you roll forward slightly and hit the brakes and the front end dives 1" in that little braking force that slow in the rain. you do not have 1250 lb springs.
you might have 700-800 range, but not 1200 range. you will need better designed aftermarket strut mounts like the ones Spohn sells. They are designed for strut travel clearance. The Hotparts ones have to be spaced offr the tower with about 1 1/2" spacers to run that height with about the rate of springs I listed. If you had 1250 lb springs in there your front end would not move and you would never gound them out on stock mounts sitting at that ride height.
Whats wrong with this stupid site again? I have to go back to inserting the thingies and the p to space out my post sentences.

 

Are you watching the same video as me? The front end of the car barely even moves. The body looks like it's rolling over the front axis (not sure of the technical term) more than the suspension actually traveling down.

But I agree, the car isn't really all that low. I think some aftermarket strut mounts would be all you need.

This car is slammed

 

Car still looks high to me in the vid. I've had mine lower than that, no strut issues. Bumpstops on the other hand... IMO If you can stick more than your fingers between the tire and fender its not slammed.

Long search. This is slammed. That Bob guy saw this car this same day.


And I must say that pic is an overexaggeration You can see the back is high and its tilted r-l

 

Yea, that car is slammed, but it can't be driven like that. I can fit 1 and a half fingers between the tire and fender. I have those j&m strut mounts and as I look at the strut, there is only 1" of the shaft exposed, not much travel at all. Also, I know they are 1250lb springs because they are labled with 1250lb, that kind of gave it away to me. Who would you recommend for a strut mount that will give me a little more room to work with? Oh and btw, i will be going with better struts such as koni sports but not till next year.

 

Of course you could drive it that way....in a perfectly flat parking lot with no speed bumps.
I would think that if you could find another set of spacers like the ones that came with the J&M kit (if you have the same ones I have)

I don't have much travel either, and with 1250 lbs springs, I don't think you'll have to worry about bottoming out....unless you eat a massive pot hole or something.
PS. KONIs ROCK!

 

</p>
Watch it again a few time quickly in a row and you can see just as the front tire centercap goes out of scene and then returns and goes out again, you hear a click of the brakes being applied and can see clearly the fender gap closing down on the tire instantaneously and returning. It moves down about an inch in compression. I am not bitching about it, just stating clearly what I see. Its what I am trained in is watching car suspensions- its my job as a crewchief. That 1250 he sees on the coils could just be a part #. I still find it hard to believe they truely are 1250lb cols, That is so damn firm it would be rock hard to drive and literally no movement at all. Mine does not move at 800lbs, all you see is tire flex at any kind of rolling speed seen in comparison to this video. the only cars I have seen in even close comparison to mine in stiffness is AI and NASA stripped down racecars with about 1000lb fronts. I have never seen another street 3rd gen even close to as stiff as fronts I have and again mine are 800lb coils (on alighter weight V6 which would equate to about 950-1000 on a V8 car.)

Also, what is puzzling me is Scarfache you say to have weightjackers? I assume just the rears? Because if you do indead have front coilovers also from GroundControl then you likely have 250lb fronts, not 1250 lb. The geometry of the coilover is far less needy of spring rate as opposed to the conventional position.

Anyuways, as Madmax has stated, that car should not be any where near gounding out at the height it sits stagnant. You must have much softer springs to be grounding out into the strut mounts. Otherwise, I am sorry but just stating based on factual measurements I personally know on these cars you are not gounding out with 1250 lb springs, you are not even compressing more than 1 inch max travel on hard braking and a big dip in the road together. That video tells me otherwise.

Now please realise I am truying to gather info in order to assit you in correcting what problem you say you are having and it is just not measuring up. Would you please mind posting some pics so I can take a better look and survey it for myself. Stagnant height from underneath the mount and pics of the springs would also help. Example of pic angle-

http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...2_116_full.jpg

 

I do see the fender gap closing, but I think it's still more of a rolling affect than actually compression of the spring. It seems to be less fender gap at the front than the rear of the wheel well. Need a better video...heh.

Me likes the tie rod ends...and are those GS-D3s and a bump-steer kit?

 

Thank you. Yes and yes. Those are also HMS extended travel aluminum strut mounts (one of about 20 custom sets made), and SSS blue coil 800lb rate springs.

With the high caster I run, I need the bumpsteer kit to maintain the toe as the suspension travels up and back. My fender lip is 24 3/4 inch off the ground at stagnat height. I run factory 16inch IROCs with standard 245/50-16's

 

I would agree with above,

I run 850# springs, and am just as low as you are, and Dean is. I have HMS mounts also, but I can't imagine with 1250# spings, that you are bottoming it out.

An easy test, it put a little clay on the top of the strut, and then drive it, you will be able to see if it is bottoming out on the strut mount, you will be able to see where it impacts there. I would imagine what you are hearing is eomthing else.

The other thing you can do, since you have weight jacks, is life the front end up a bit, and see if that changes your feeling of it. Now, also knowing how these cars sit, you may very well be hitting the rubber bump stop, I did do a little "trimming" of mine, to keep it out of the equation under normal driving in my car. It didn't take a whole lot, and I still do get it every now and again if I hit a good size bump.

 

awesome tech skillz on this thread...

 

Wait, is 'Bob' Dean?
I need a bump steer kit for mine. Well, I guess I really didn't need to lower it to start with, but you all know how that goes.

 

Yes, Bob is Dean. I would know that front suspension anywhere.

I think he has the Baer Kit, look around, a lot of places should sell it. You could probably also peice one together through the nascar suppliers like Coleman, you would just need to get the right peices.

 

i wish they would just quite banning him already. You guys bring some GREAT info the the table on auto-x/scca style suspension.

I can't count how many times Ive been like WAIT that must be dean again when reading a post.. makes it hard to try and search for info when looking for old posts.

 

I can't believe all the info I am reading here. You may be correct, i might have been mis-informed but i assure you I am hearing the strut bottom out, it is a very loud BANG when I hit a sizeable imperfection in the road. You guys also have to keep in mind I live in Buffalo, NY, the roads here are not exactly "good" per-say. The weight jackers are front and rear. The springs in back are coil but sit on an adjustable perch in the factory location on the rear end. The front springs are in the factory locations as well and an adjustable spring perch rests between the top of the spring and the top of the tower. I may be doing a poor job at explaining it, but the system is not coilover, the spring and strut are housed separately. I'm trying to get a road racing type suspension setup for the car so any helpful hints are very much appreciated. As you can tell I don't care about ride quality, i put function before form.

 

Scarfache,There are two things you can check.



1st is the strut shaft itself to see if the chrome shaft is shinny all the way up inside tot he strut mount. If it is all shinny, then the strut body is traveling and grounding out against it. If there is a dull or dirty section before the strut shaft reaches the strut mount then this is noit hitting. (Hmm- I just got a thought. Are you running GC strut mounts? If so they could be moving the strut alignment vertically off center and the strut body is hitting the edge. THis could possibly also be happening witht he Hotpart type mounts also if you have alot of caster and/or neg camber and the strut body is hitting the side of the strut tower opening or cavity. Check that also Thats why a picture under like I posted above is worth a 1000 words.)



2nd, Take a look at the link I posted above (here it is again http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...2_116_full.jpg ) On the swaybar, you can see in my pic a little almost white looking spot in the center of the length of swaybar visable. Above that spot or nick is a vertical finned section of the chassis with a loop cutout for swaybar clearance. I had to trim mine a little further because my swaybar would make contact here and give a little clicking noise when it do- I forgot about doing that years ago. Check that also, it may be a problem point for you.


Conclusion, to run that low, you NEED (no exceptions) stiffer rate springs to limit suspension travel and to resist body roll. When you lower the car down to that point (mine is that low also @ 24 3/4&quot; at fender lip height) the center of gravity lowers of course, but the real problem is the ratio of the roll center lowering in proportion to the CG. The RC drops faster than the CG and thus leverages the springs greater causing roll travel. I have as stated about 800lb coils on my light noses V6 and I only tavel on average 1&quot; with a max travel ever of 1 1/2&quot; by indication of the shinny marks on the strut shaft. You can look closely underneath my pic and se that dirty line up under there where the shinny stops. If the strut is bottoming out on the mount (and not the tower edge) then yoiu will have to either raise the car OR buy stiffer rate coils.

 

How are you fitting those spacers with the underneath brackets? I am assuming J&M are suppling brackets with longer bolts? Or are they telling you to scrap the brackets and are suppling just longer bolts- that would be a real PITA to loosen each time especially on a lowered car on an alignment rack. THe car would have to be jacked to loosen and would have to be re rolled to settle before reading, then try and jack them again without he camber moving to try and tighten them, then you could go to the caster if the caster.

I am not trying to slam you with that product, I fully admit my HMS mounts are crap in the aluminum and would never recommend somebody buy again what I bought- so with that said, please understand I am being hoinest in a critque of them. I just do not like the idea they are lifted off the surface like that and even more so if they can not use the factory bracket underneath for 'pull through support' and 'adjustment ease'. I would make sure you have some big thick fender whashers underneath there for pull through safety so the strut tower holes do not dimp and eventually brak over the years. I am talking about the factory type underneath brackets like these:


Strut mount retainers:
http://www.spohn.net/category.cfm?categoryid=1071

On a positive note, they do give better MC clearance so you can run more negative camber than the HMS design or Spohn's steel copy.

 

I am putting the car in storage in a week so i'll be able to get good pics then, but i checked the shaft of the strut and it it shiny all the way up, just like a mm of dirt at the very top. I only have in KYB GR-2s so I know that's a problem right off the bat. As far as the strut mount, i have the hotparts mount with the 2 spacers below the mount itself but not under the car.

 

scarfache,

We aren't saying you aren't hitting or bottoming something out, we are just trying to determine what is actualy contacting or bottoming out. Can you see anywhere under there, where contact has been made? That is why I suggested some clay, to see if we can figure out what it is you that is not getting the range of motion needed.

--John

 

J&M provided a bracket for under the strut tower that I remember seemed a little beefier than the stock piece. I was worried about pull through when I ordered them, but the brackets put me at ease. The only thing I don't like about this design is the issue with hood to mount clearance. Not the best fit in the world. Might be because mine is an aftermarket fiber-glass hood.
I do like their new design better, though.
I'll get a picture if you're intersted in seeing the bracket.

 

I will do the clay thing you suggested, once i get my hands on some clay I'll also have to check the sway bar and see if that is hitting like someone mentioned before. Weather is crappy in Buffalo so I haven't been able to look underneath the car in my driveway so i'm going to wait till i put it in storage theres a lift there.

 

I realize this is an old thread, but Im new to lowered F-bodies. I have 2 firebirds lowered on LowTech springs (modest 2 inch drop) and using DVM camber caster adjustable plates. strut travel is nearly non-existent for a daily driver (about 1.5 inches up front)... Is modifying the camber caster plate to raise the upper strut mount the best way to go? I was (guessing) that Id increase the travel by 2-2.5 inches....thoughts?

 

Lingenfelter on their website used to sell Bilstein struts they marketed specifically for lowered 3rd gen F-bodies.

Perhaps someone can figure out what the P/Ns for those used to be...

 

Run a adjustable strut like kyb agx

 

thanks 92GTA & 1987camarochris! I will definitely check this out!