i am looking for a roll cage and so far the best one i have found is the 10 pt. one from spohn. it is like $250 + $40 more for the swing out bar. does that sound like a good deal? do spohn cages go together well and do they have good customer service?

 

The spohn cages I believe are just s&w race cars cages. I believe you can order the same kit directly from S&W.

 

if you want your cage professionally installed and for a decent price go see Ricky Adkins at Adkins Race Cars in Milan, MI.

 

what is s&w's full name? i will be welding it in with my uncle. we should have no problem doing it ourselves.

 

if you're doign it yourself JEGS also makes a good roll cage for the third gen, im buying one for my built car in a week or so.

 

http://www.swracecars.com/

 

Spohn is selling those at the same price as S&W. the difference may lie in shipping/lead time. may want to consult both on those issues then decide from there.

 

check jegs.

 

i was looking for an 8 point and i was looking at jegs and summit but they get u.... the price is 160$ for a complete 8 point cage but they shipping is 90$$$$$ WTFFFF and its still 80-90$ for shipping if u get just the 37$ roll bar hoop.... wtf thats just nuts!

i cant see myself paying 90$ for shipping to my door.... and they arenot assembled nor do that require large boxes. even if u pick it up at the terminal its 80$

 

I dont think the ones from summit and jegs have the side bars that clear the oem door pulls. S&W cages offer this plus on there 10 point cages they have the bars that clear the oem dash pad with having to cut the dash as well as the basic cages.

 

ive got the jegs 12 pt. but its more race. it goes through the dash which looks the best hids the dash bar.
i never liked cages bent arround dashes. then you cant take the dash out.

 

I also use a Jegs kit. The only thing left from my dash is the top dash pad and I cut it for the a-pillar bars to go through it. I also have the knee bar behind the plate I use for my gauges.

I have no idea how well the door bar fits past interior. Mine is a race car with no interior. I added the X bar for my doors and also installed sill bars.

The jegs kit fits well enough that even with the halo bar, I can still remove my t-tops although there's no interior in the way either.

The only think I haven't done with my kit yet was install the bars through the firewall. My "kit" has been heavily modified since I installed the back half last year. I do have some bars installed from the front of the strut towers down to the front of the frame rails. I just need to tie the cage to the back of the strut towers now.

If you want a perfect fit, have a cage professionally built and installed. The price of a kit is always cheap. Getting it installed is what costs all the money. Typically you can estimate $100-$150 per point for installation. Depends how much interior needs to be removed and installed.

 

spohn quoted me around $140 to ship the roll cage. if i cant find it cheaper with s&w, i will hold off on the cage for a while and work on other stuff.

 

shipping is ridiculous

 

Considering most of the cage kit is just straight tubing. The main hoop and the a-pillar bars are the only ones custom bent. The S&W kit may have bent door bars to clear the arm rests.

I can buy all the straight tubing locally for a lot less than what the shipping cost was but I had to buy a kit just to get the bent tubes.

 

You can buy a basic 12 ton tubing/pipe bender for around $100 from habor frieight or other tool supply place.

 

You bend a cage with one of those and chances are you won't pass tech. You need a proper mandrel bender to get the proper bend. The bow and arrow type pipe bender pinches the tube. The JD3 is the bender of choice. It's around $300 plus the cost of the dies.

Tubing is measured by the outside diameter. Pipe is measured by the inside diameter. The dies are different.

With the proper tool, bending tubing is as simple as this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0RveAq4OZ4

 

stephen 87 iroc... where do u get your tubing from? i just feel ridiculous getting a 37$ roll bar hoop and paying 90$ shipping lol

i used to work at this fencing company that has 1 3/4 mild steel tubing but its pretty thick... something like 1/8" to 3/16" thick... would that work?

 

I buy mine from a business called Metal Supermarkets. Mild steel, cold drawn seamless steel tubing (DOM). They might not be cheaper than major metal suppliers but they'll sell you any amount you wish. Major suppliers will only sell 20 or 40' lengths.

www.metalsupermarkets.com

To be legal, the mild steel must be DOM and all tubing diameters must have a minimum of .118" wall. When a tube is bent, the metal is stretched so thicker material is used to maintain a minimum thickness. Typically .134" wall thickness is used.

A roll bar is made entirely from 1-3/4" tubing. A roll cage uses 1-5/8" tubing for the main hoop, halo bar, main door bars, a-pillar bars and rear supports. Everything else can be 1-1/2". The x-bar for my doors, knee bar, main hoop braces to the driveshaft tunnel and to the rear subframe are all 1-1/2". The tubes that are supposed to go through the firewall are also 1-1/2" unless the car became a full tube chassis then they would be 1-5/8". The only thing I went overkill on was my sill bar. It has to be 1-5/8" but I had some leftover 1-3/4 and used that instead.

Fence material is normally galvanized. That's not legal.

 

"Fence material is normally galvanized. That's not legal." how will they kno if i painted it lol jk.

i'll take a look at the site and see what pricing goes for. if im gona do it, it'll be gettin done when the motor goes in and i gotta drop the tank to put the new walbaro 255lph high pressure pump in... that way it will already be out and i can weld away. im never gona put a full roll cage in. im skeptable in putting in a 8 point bc it will make gettin in and out harder. i just want something that will stiffen the rear up nicely and get me ready for 5 point seatbelt harnesses and perhaps put 1 5/8 tubing for the side bars to make it a 8 point.

 

If you're running 12.00 and slower, you can make the roll bar out of whatever you wish because it's not a mandatory item, ie a 4 point roll bar with no door bars.

A roll bar, 6 or 8 point, with main hoop, rear bars and door bars must be all made from 1-3/4" tubing to be legal. A 6 point roll bar typically adds 70 pounds to the car.

The extra 2 points for an 8 point roll bar are support tubes that attach from under the cross bar on the main hoop and run down towards the driveshaft tunnel. These can be as small as 1-1/4" but are still made with .134" wall thickness.

 

what are the time regulations for a 6 or 8 point cage?
is it 10 seconds or slower that you need to upcrage to extra points??
and how much does a 8 point cage help with the stiffing up the frame? im thinking of getting the 8 point from jegs. im justwoundering if it will pass the regulation thingy for speed wise. im hoping my car will soon do 11s if not alittle fast in the next coming year if not this year.

 

from 10.0-11.49 you need a 5 point roll bar. 1 ¾ inch outside diameter x .118 inch wall mild steel tubing, or 1 ¾ x .083 chrome moly tubing. However if your floor pan or firewall is modified then you need a roll cage starting at 10.99-7.50. If no floor pan or firewall modifications then a roll cage is required at 9.99 and quicker or trapping higher than 135mph.

If I'm not mistaken I don't think it is legal to weld the roll cage along the bars to to body to stiffen up the frame. The only parts you can weld are the mounting points, that may be SCCA's rule though. It's not racing season so I'm a little rusty on the rules and I can't find my rulebook. Either way NHRA roll cages aren't designed to stiffen up the car per say, but solely for safety. any stiffening is mostly just a by product.

I really recommend getting an NHRA rule book because there are a lot more specifications on the thickness's of certain bars and such.

 

i had no idea they had a rule book on the stuff.
where would i pick up one of these books? im thinking somewhere off the internet or somthing like that.

i dont want to over kill with the roll cage. i found a good 8 point rollbar for $150 from jegs. and they seem like a snappin deal. or that was for the 10 point... i cant remember i would have to take a look.
ill eathe get the 6 or 8 point. im thinking the 8 just to be on the safe side.
i can always add bars to it later if i really needed to.
but ill will get the book tho. sounds like it would be really handly to have.

 

ROLL BARS{reprint from IHRA Rulebook}
Mandatory in all cars running 11.49 or quicker, or per class
requirements. All roll bars must be within 6 inches of the rear or
side of the driver's head, extend in height at least 3 inches above
the driver's helmet with driver in normal driving position, and be at
least as wide as the driver's shoulders or within 1 inch of the
driver's door. Rollbar must be adequately supported or cross-braced
to prevent forward or lateral collapse. Rear braces must be
of the same diameter and wall thickness as the roll bar and
intersect with the roll bar at a point not more than 5 inches from
the top of the roll bar. Sidebar must be included on driver's side
and must pass the driver at a point midway between the shoulder
and elbow. Swing-out sidebar permitted. All roll bars must have in
their construction a cross bar for seat bracing and as the shoulder-
harness attachment point; cross bar must be installed no more
than 4 inches below, and not above, the driver's shoulders or to
side bar. All vehicles with OEM frame (i.e. pickup truck where body
bolts to framerails) must have roll bar welded or bolted to frame.
Installation of frame connectors on unibody cars does not
constitute a frame; therefore, it is not necessary to have the roll bar
attached to the frame. Unibody cars with stock floor and firewall
(wheeltubs permitted) may attach roll bar with 6-inch x 6-inch x
.125-inch steel plates on top and bottom of floor bolted together
with at least four 3/8-inch bolts and nuts, or weld main hoop to
rocker sill area with .125-inch reinforcing plates, with plates welded
completely. All 4130 chrome moly tube welding must be done by
approved TIG heliarc process; mild steel welding must be done by
approved MIG wire feed or approved TIG heliarc process. Welding
must be free of slag and porosity. Any grinding of welds prohibited.
Roll bar must be padded anywhere driver's helmet
may contact it while in driving position. Adequate padding must
have minimum 1/4-inch compression or meet SFI Spec 45.1.

ROLL CAGE{reprint}
Mandatory in all cars running quicker than 10.99 seconds or faster
than 135 mph, or per class requirements. Cars with unaltered
firewall, floor and body (from firewall rearward, wheeltubs
permitted) running between 10.00 and 10.99, roll bar permitted in
place of roll cage, or per Class Requirements. Cars with altered
firewall, floor faster than 11.49 must have rollcage and window net.
All cage structures must be designed in an attempt to protect the
driver from any angle, 360 degrees. All 4130 chrome-moly tube
welding must be done by approved TIG heliarc process; mild steel
tube welding must be approved MIG wire feed or TIG heliarc
process. Welding must be free of slag and porosity. Any grinding of
welds prohibited. Additionally, roll cage must be padded anywhere
the driver's helmet may contact it while in the driving position.
With driver in driving position, helmet must be in front of main
hoop. If helmet is behind or under main hoop, additional tubing,
same size and thickness as roll cage, must be added to protect
driver. Main hoop may be laid back or forward, but driver must be
encapsulated within the required roll cage components. On
unibody cars with stock floor and firewall (wheel tubs permitted),
the roll cage may be bolted or welded to the floor/rocker box via 6-
inch x 6-inch x .125-inch steel plates
Unless attaching to OEM floor or frame, the minimum requirements for a
frame member to which a roll cage member is attached are 1 5/8-
inch x .118-inch MS or .083-inch CM round and/or 2-inch x 2-inch
x .058 MS or CM rectangular.
All cage structures must have in their construction a cross bar for
seat bracing and as the shoulder-harness attachment point; cross
bar must be installed no more than 4 inches below, and not above,
the driver's shoulders, or to side bar. All required rear braces must
be installed at a minimum angle of 30 degrees from vertical and
must be welded in. Side bar must pass the driver at a point midway
between the shoulder and elbow.
Unless an OEM framerail is located below and outside of driver's
legs, a rocker or sill bar, minimum 1 5/8-inch x .083 CM or .118 MS
or 2-inch x 2-inch x .058-inch CM or MS rectangular, is mandatory
in any car with a modified floor or rocker box within the roll-cage
uprights (excluding 6 square feet of transmission maintenance
opening). Rocker bar must be installed below and outside of
driver's legs and must tie into the main hoop, the forward hoop,
frame, frame extension, or side diagonal. Rocker bar may not tie
into swing-out side bar support. If rocker bar ties into side diagonal
more than 5 inches (edge to edge) from forward roll-cage support
or main hoop, a 1 5/8-inch x .083 CM or .118 MS brace/gusset is
mandatory between the diagonal and forward roll-cage support or
main hoop.

 

you kno that 150$ roll cage from jegs/summit is really going to be 250$ right? u have to add the 90$ shipping charge and the 10$ handling fee.... those b@astards!!!!!!

Shlt i aint gona be goin quicker than 10's with my dream 383HSR with 10psi procharged lovin! d@mn i didnt kno a 6 point cage adds 70lbs to the car! ouch i might just go wit a 4 point so i have the ability to run 5 point harnesses and stiffin the rear up alil

 

I'm not sure about shipping to the US but shipping to Canada, there's also a trucking freight charge when you go to pick it up.

 

most of the shops here charge 80-100 bucks a point for custom roll bars/cages. that includes piping and welding

thats not bad for a custom fit cage

 

i live in columubs so shipping is free when i go pick it up at the store.

 

yeah i figured it be about btween 250 and 350 bucks if i get the jegs.
i dont think i have any shops here that would install them. i might have to go to the mainland for that stuff. since im living on an island.
but if it does cost me $350. im sure i can weld em myself. or even get an 6point and i can always add more points to it if i really need it.

 

Alro metals is a great place to buy pipe/tubing. You can buy as a nobody, but it will have to ship to a business(free truck freight if you're close enough to a location). - I second mild steel DOM.

You guys who are whining about shipping need to realize the size and weight of an item like this. The main hoop is the largest piece, therefore it is the bulk of the freight cost. Imagine cutting a 2" wide section out of the center of your sail panels/roof/floor/rear seat area and shipping it, rather large huh?

Yep, the Harbor freight bender is cheap, and can be used for most bends below about 60 degrees, anything past that and it will dimple(even if only slightly) and will not pass tech since the dimple is a weak point. You have to use a rotary draw mandrel bender, which as Stephen said $300+ for the bender, and around $100-$150 per die. You need different dies for different sizes of tubing and for different radiuses.

I don't think a 6 point is quite 70#'s, but adding .134 wall steel pipe to a car is not gonna help weight any.

Moly is an option, but not worth it IMO. The weight savings is very minimal. In a full tube chassis kit, moly is 100lbs lighter than mild steel, and thats in a full chassis kit. Plus moly has a much higher fatigue rate.

It should also be said that to be legal a mild steel cage has to be MIG welded(true MIG with gas, no flux-core) and moly has to be TIG'ed.

 

i know the shipping would cost a pretty good anount since its big and bulky and heavy.
how much do you think it would cost to get the main hoop bent if you whent out and bought all the piping your self. the rest of the roll bar looks fairly straight unless you start getting intothe 10 or 12 point full cages. i was thinking maybe an 8 point. from the photos of the 8 points. it looks all straight piping and only piece that is bent is the main hoop. i think it has 4 bends.

shown int his photo


i would have to figure how much the shipping would be to get it shipped to where i live since i live in canada. shipping seems to cost more.
and also figure out how much it would cost to buy your own piping. if its only one pipe that is bent. i got some connections so im sure i can get a discount to get the mainhoop bent to. if not ill have to see how much it costs.

im also woundering. does the mainhoop haveto be one piece? couldnt you 6 pieces of pipe. and angle them. and weld the joints togeather to make one piece?

 

no welds are weaker than the mandrel bent part of the pipe. welds are ok if u connect straigh peices of pipe for forces that are straight towards the welds. u gotta remember that when u weld a pipe the weld heats the pipe to where it literally melts the pipe and weld together. the area around the weld if dont right has a heat color and thats the weakest part since u heat the metal.

to weld the hoop would create points at each weld that would create pressure points that would be weaker and that wouldnt exist in the mandrel bent hoop.

 

yeah i thought it would have made the points weaker.
what if you weld the points togeather. and then add metal plates to the points. would that help any or would it be the same as just welding the points?

 

See if there's a 4x4 shop on the island. They may have a tubing bender for building 4x4 roll cages.

Order from Jegs or where ever and have it shipped to Port Angeles. Continental US shipping may be free or cheap then go across and pick it up.

 

yeah i thought about that but it may cost just as much as it having to get shipped to the island or more.
it roughly costs about $70 ro so to get to the mainland. and anoiter $70 to get back. its about that or so. prices gone up so its pretty lame.
and then have to pay for gas to get down there and back. it be almost a $150 - $175 trip to get there and back. ill have to see how much the shipping will cost and see if its worth. maybe dosome shopping while im downthere. ill have to figure out all the shipping costs and whatnot.

 

Another option is to know someone living on the US mainland. Have it shipped to them which may be at a reduced cost or free shipping. Have them then ship it to you. Your cost for shipping would be a lot less for the short distance.

 

yeah i could do that as well.
closest reletive that i have that lives in the states would be L.A
i sent her afew things so she can send it to me because some websitres dont ship to canada
ill have to ask if they are willing to do that.

 

Is the 8 point cages with sidebars designed to clear stock door handles legal? I'm more concerned with IHRA legal as my track i think its only ihra ruled

 

i was just gunna get the plain simple ones. i wasnt going to get the ones where it clears the armrests.

 

i'm just asking cuz i may need that kit

 

dont weld the points. get the hoop madrel so u dont have to worry. the metal brackets ur talking about welding at the points are called "gussets" they look like lil formed triangles what u weld at the joints to make them stronger.... summit and jegs sells them, they are cheap. and yes they make the points stroinger due to added material and more welding surface and connecting points. still u dont wanna weld the hoop at the points... this wont pass anything at the track etc and look bad. u can use gussetts on everything else and this will add to the structual integrety of the cage.

 

thanks for the info. i wasnt sure if it was allowable. so i thought i ask jsut incase.
yeah thos small Triangle things was what i was talking about.
i was going to use them on the joints just to make them alittle stronger.
i think im just going to buy the kit. to much of a hassle for me to build it myself. tho ill weld it myself. but going out and buying it and mesuring and cutting. that would take me along time to get everything perfict.
and get abunch of them little pieces of metal for the joints and i should be all set.
i think it would cost me about $400 by the time i get it to my house.
i guess thats pretty reasonable since its already prefabed. just gotta put it togeather. like lego! but not quite..