customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

just tig welded the strut towers on my 87 formula 350 after installing a 6pt cage. seen this done before and supposidly tightens up the front end alot. also welded the seems on the whole passenger side on the front subframes etc(can kind of see in the pics). let me kno what you think and if theres anything else to do. next is the driver side.

also tig'd the reinforcement plate on the passenger side that is factory spot welded to the fender support and the strut tower cap... pic 3.

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

I'd trash those stock upper strut mounts and get a solid bearing mounts from Spohn or Hot Part (J&M)

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

yea i was thinking about it. which ones are the best and cheapest? i kno they both look nice but i would like to get that extra inch of ride height back that i lost with the sportlines so i dont destroy my struts

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

I'm offering no real help because I know nothing about the Hot Part version--A search would no doubt provide info. I am, however, running Spohn's piece (as is krisb, IIRC) which offers that extra inch you mention.

JamesC

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

yea i kno they do but they cost a pretty penny lol. this is really a daily driver that might see alil track time.if i decide to upgrade it will be a little later i just wanted to hear from sum that have them. still gotta come up wit 1500 for the block/rotating assembly then 2500 for a moser 12 bolt or sumthing :/

soultron

iTrader: (2)

Hot part are awesome if you do not paln of lowering the car much. They aren't as deep as the spoon ones, but are just as adjustable, if not more if you count the caster adjustment.

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

+1 for Hotpart! Great product in all aspects.

Mike

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

cars already real low with the sportlines. think it dropped my car about an inch lower than my 130,000 original sagging WS6 springs. and one was missing a whole coil that just broke off and was sitting in the LCA.

so the J&M ones arent deep like the spohns? so J&M doesnt tuck the pocket up higher in theres? how much did the j&m ones cost u guys?

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

J&M mounts are also 1" higher than the stock units. They cost $217.50 and there is free shipping on them.

hotpart

You need to look at the total difference of the two. Ours (j&m) have both independent caster and camber adjustability. The spacer tube may not be as tall but we mount (protrude) the bearings upward through the main camber plates which increases the travel. The other units mount the bearing underneath without caster adjustment and not as much camber adjustment. Mounting the bearing underneath top hat (top portion of the camber plate) reduces clearance by the amount of the bearing plus the housing for the bearing. Looks can be deceiving. The other thing to look at is increasing the tower height does NOT give any extra strut travel if your bump stops have not been trimmed.

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

The Spohn mounts have the extra 1 inch travel even the way they have the bearing mounted, because they included the bearing width when engineering the extra height into the mount. So when you put the stockers and the Spohn side by side, they are actually a little more than an inch taller, more like an inch and a half. And when you put them side by side with the J&M units, there are noticably taller. Even if you measure from the underside. The Spohn units also have extra camber adjustment built into them.

Here is a description of the Spohn units from http://www.spohn.net/shop/1982-1992-...ut-Mounts.html

I choose the Spohn units specificly because I lowered my car, and I have played around with my alignment, and have yet not been able to get it were I wanted it.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Going back to the welding part of this thread, customblackbird directed me to this thread to check out his welding job on his strut towers. I think that's a great idea and it looks great. Looks so much more solid. I am wondering if anyone can chime in and justify doing this job? Is it necessary for street/autox? Does it make handling better?

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

I've wanted to do that to, just never have.

While I doubt that welding them could add any noticeable increase in stiffness, I bet they add some. And combined with other stuff.....It all adds up & can't hurt any.

I say do it. I will, some day. If I just get out there & do it, since I have my own MIG welder.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

im curious as to what welding this part is supposed to do? All that cap is, is a cap. The fender well/strut tower is 1 pc, including the sheetmetal under the extra cap part. There is no way that part can separate from the forces of the suspension unless the entire fenderwell/tower assembly fails.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

the strut cap is a support. its there for reinforcement. the strut tower is made up of 2 layers of steel, the thinnest part is the actual strut tower/fender area. this is one uniform peice that is welded to the fender reinforcements, as well as the front subframe and firewall. if you were to take the strut mount off you would see a hole, where the strut tower 1 peice steel has been punched up from underneith for the strut to come through to the strut mount. the ONLY reinforcement that this thin strut tower has is built in from the curves of the tower/ attachment points to the cars structure and a small lip under the strut mount. GM decided to add a thicker steel to the outside of the tower like a "cap" and spotweld it to the tower. this spreads the pushing force of the strut over a wider area to distribute the load. u can acutally spread the steel apart through the mounting slots for the strut mount that allows the 3 bolts and its large bolt "align" bracket. since its only connected at the sport welds around the edge of the cap. welding it will increase the rigidy but not something to expect a noticeable feel. this would be more evident when the suspension as been upgraded enough to cause theoretical flex of the tower,EX: J&M mounts, stiffer struts, poly/solid front LCA bushings, poly sway bar end links etc. this will allow more of the forces to be transfered to the cars chassis bc the CR@P rubber parts arent deflecting the loads.

thats how i see it anyway. the tower steel is so thin GM had to reinforce it. the strut towers see some extreme forces in hard cornering, since our strut towers have been known to flex up to 1/2". without the "cap" support im sure the strut forces will "bow" or fatigue the thin tower steel over time causing the strut to rip through the tower and into your hood.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

i dont know, i still dont see it. With the strut mount and everything bolted together, I can t see it moving. I could be wrong though. as for flexing, its the entire tower flexing inwards, so even if the extra piece was on the top of the tower, it would still flex inwards, but again, without it, the strut would most likely tear through the thin sheetmetal of hte tower at the same rate.

At the very least, after welding, the seam is pretty much gone and has a cleaner look.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Mount a camera aimed at the strut mounts & go push the handling limits. You'll see them move. There was a video, I think it was a GM test thing, of them moving years ago. Scary to think about how much they moved & therefore affected the alignment during that!

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

im not questioning if the towers move, i know they do. Im just wondering about the actual flat mounting surface where the strut mount bolts to. If the metal there distorts enough to justify the welding.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

i agree, we kno the towers move, but wat i believe the caps are for is to reinforce the strut towers so the struts dont tear through. thats it really. i wouldnt think welding them is necessary for most ppl, but if u intend to push the car then why not? lol.

same goes for the stock Subframes... they are spotwelded and good enough for most ppl but seam weld the entire structure of our cars and ull notice a difference. (i kno the subframes take a different load but still point is essentially the same) so its prob not needed but it would prob increase the strength of the tower

Guest

I would like to see that video if you could find it.

Thanks, Dean

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Dean, I'm 'not' a suspensionist in any way, thus two questions to you. If there were a full 1/2" flex in the strut towers, how difficult would it be to achieve the following results for a brand new 85 IROC: .92g's on the skidpad and 63.3 MPH slalom? And if those numbers are achievable with a 1/2" of flex, what kind of improvement would be seen with the addition of a 3-pt. STB in conjunction with after market strut mounts?

Also, out of curiosity, does anyone know where the "up to a 1/2'" number comes from?

JamesC

Guest

Hi James, there us no way to answer a question like that realisticlly. It is all opinions without data acquisitions. You would need tire temps with a pyro imediately after the runs to see what the contact patches are doing each way on a skid pad as well as sloham runs such as Autox would be a much beeter tool than just a straight slolam run. There are so many factors that could show a high lateral g on a skidpad but a slow autox run, and visa versa. Heck, the car could have a slight circle track characteristic by accident showing it to run left corners better than right. Most cars do this. I could set my car simply for just left hand cornering and quite possibly get it to 1.10 by playing with spring rates, xweights and swaybar preloads Dripping the inside air pressure alone will increase a bit.

Its all about lateral grip of tires, smoothness of surface, chassis pitch and roll and thus the sum of all of these when they apply the chassis weight onto the 4 tires making contact patch footprints. Think of contact patch in the sum of sq inches on each tire. If the insides lift, the patch decreases, thus lateral grip "can" decrease as well. The outside tires increase weight, and increase contact patch size, but do they increase too much deforming the contact patch? or do they aslo over weight the two outside tires rather than leaving some of that weight on the inside tires to aid in lateral traction?

Pyro's tell ALOT. You can see me hear behind Mason getting his temps immediately after his race. Time is of the essence, I do not wait for him to get back to the pits. This is my best tool for tuning. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/albu...pictureid=5444

SLEEPER 86

personally, i put ten 1" welds around the strut tower caps. the primary reason was because i switched to a coil over setup. doing that places the entire load of the front suspension on the towers rather than the springs resting in the k- member.
looks like you could drop your car out of a plane and not separate anything! the only disadvantage of totally welding the seams you did might be a little weight gain in the nose. i would have to think it would be very little though. you're making me wish i had gone wild with the welder too!
Eric B