I've got an almost stocker '85 T/A, it's been lowered at least 2" with Intrax lowering springs, but the rest of the suspension is stock. I've added 16"x8" Iroc wheels with 245/50 tires. It handles well, but when it is pushed, understeer becomes a problem. I can deal with oversteer, that's no big deal -- but understeer scares the crap out of me. Especially since in the T/A it doesn't occur till I'm way over my head, and my only hope would be to give it gas and break the rearend loose -- but the problem is the car doesn't have enough power to break the rearend loose at the speed which understeer occurs.
As you can see, I'm in a predicament. Besides, the car needs a lot of work anyway -- and I'm not planning on making any half-assed suspension upgrades. So, I'm going all out, any suggestions on good bang for the buck?

Thanks in advance!

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1985 Trans Am - rough and ready -- 3" cat and primary exhaust, lowered 2", custom rust body work mild fender denting. Daily driver.
1976 Corvette Stingray - not so rough, but always ready. 427 BBC .030 over (433 ci) 12.5:1 compression about 600-700 HP/World Class T5 tranny, and no, I can't gun it for fear of breaking my tranny - upgrading to a muncie/gear vendors O/D as soon as I get some more $$$

 

Subframe connectors and a strut tower brace will make a very big improvement. I have both of these and the car is much more solid and much more predictible now. I'll be upgrading my rear suspension (control arms, panhard bar) this summer with all Steve Spohn parts. Supposedly that also makes a huge improvement over the stock stamped steel pieces. Also, make sure you have decent struts/shocks on the car.

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1991 Z28 - 350 TPI, T56, McLeod street clutch, LT4 pressure plate, Pro 5.0 shifter, ported plenum & runners, AFPR, Hooker shorty headers w/o AIR, Flowmaster muffler, homeade ram-air, SSM subframe connectors, Kenny Brown STB, Global West steering box brace, Steve Spohn adjustable torque arm and T56 crossmember

 

how does this sound... KYB gas struts,bilstein shocks,eibach pro kit (1" drop),pst front end rebuild kit (poly bushings,joints,ect..),hotchkis rear LCAs and adjustable panhard? this is what I have so far. all I have installed is the hotchkis rear end components,I can vouch for the improve ment there,the rear end feels very solid and makes the front seem so much worse! I also have hotchkis frame connectors,but those can't go on because of the exaust interference ,after I get the springs,bushings and all that put in, I'll find a way to install some SFCs and definitly get an STB. I think it's all worth it,I'm installing it all myself,so it's only the cost of the parts and an alighnment for me. * don't forget to check your front wheel bearings,p/s gear box,tie rods,pitman,idler,steering shaft u-joint and coupler,tilt colum ragjoint. most should be ok,I had to replace my p/s gear and rag joint to get my steering the way i wanted it. I've also upgraded from firebird 15x7"s to IROC 16x8"s w/ khumo ecsta 245/50,well worth it!

 

If you want an immediate solution for your understeer problem, you might want to play with a bigger rear sway bar, or stiffer rear shocks just to keep you happy until you get your other parts on.

 

This may sound silly, but maybe you want to do a little free tuning first. Check the air pressure in your tires, add about 2psi to the fronts, see how it feels. Maybe, you want to see how the car responds with more air in the rear tires, don't go past the tire manufacture's max for air pressure, work within their parameters. If u have a real WS6, it has bigger bars than an Iroc. You may want to go with a bigger rear bar, but it will make it twitchy on the highway. Also, how are your struts/shocks?? Bushings??? All these things contribute to how your car drives...

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86 SC, 305 LG4, TH700R4, SLP headers, 3" cat and exhaust. Mild cam 204/214, .423/.442. SLP shift kit, richmond 3.73's w/limited slip. Suspension Techniques Sway Bars, Globel West Wonderbar, Poly everything bushings, Metco LCA's, Lakewood Panhad Rod. 16" ROH, with Toyo 245's. For autocross, 16" IROC's w/bfg R1's... Nothing easy can be fun...

 

Thanks everyone -- I think first I'll toy with subframe connectors and a strut bar along with rebuilding the rest of the suspension with polyurethane bushings. I've already put the polyurethane in about half of it -- but it's been a driver for a while so I didn't get into the major things yet - Just rear control arms, etc.

Any suggestions on what shocks/struts are the best? Also -- I've upgraded my exhaust with an Catco universal 3" inlet/outlet cat and an Edelbrock 3" primary exhaust. It seems to scrape on EVERYTHING -- I think a 2" drop is just too much. What do you feel are the best mild lowering springs?

 

According to a tech at Tirerack, the H&R springs are the choice for aggressive driving, but they're slightly harsher than the Eibach's. I can't get a straight answer from anyone on the Koni vs Bilstein question, except that Koni's allow adjustability.

 

strut tower bars do little to nothing. come on, how are they really going to help at all when they are so close to the firewall.

first learn how to drive, i am not insulting you or saying you cant, but learn the finer points like how you should take a turn (outer, inner, outter) then put some good adjustable struts in like konis

the most important things in order springs, struts, sfc, sway bars

i live near a twisty turny mountian that has everything you could ever want and i have beaten "hooked up" cars over the mountian and other mountians in a POS 1986 4dr civic with more rust on the body then oil in the motor. its 75% your driving ability 25% parts
my 2cents

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race it or sell it

 

I second what 86SCBNJ said about checking the tires' air pressure. I once put a new pair of BFG tires in the rear(245/50 16's) and when I drove off the rear was way too loose. I was surprised since they were replacing 235's. When I got home I checked the air pressure(after the tires cooled down) and the pressure was almost 40psi in both(the manufacturer's max. was 35psi). I dropped the pressure down to about 30psi and the rear felt more planted.

Adjusting the pressures front and rear may help out a bit. I'm not sure as to how much air pressure front/rear you should have since your car has suspension upgrades. Like 86SCBNJ said, stay within manufacturer's specs(also, leave some room for an increase in pressure due to heat build up in the tires). If it doesn't help enough, then go with the suspension and chassis parts. A magazine did an article on tire air pressure, and how it affects handling, a while back. I can't remember which magazine though.

[This message has been edited by coach (edited July 12, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by coach (edited July 12, 2001).]

 

I've got to disagree with "downwithET". My STB did make a difference... and it is not near the firewall but rather midway between the firewall and the radiator. Other STBs on 3rd gens that I have seen are also located similarily. The STB helps because under hard cornering the tops of the struts can move.

If you have already lowered your car 2", then you should look into an adjustable panhard bar. This keeps your rear-end centered under the car. If it has been lowered 2", chances are that the rear end is no longer centered. Also, under hard cornering, an upgraded panhard bar (and LCAs) will prevent the rear end from moving side-to-side.

Also, SFCs made a HUGE difference for my car. Probably attributed to the fact that I have t-tops, but nevertheless, I highly recommend them.



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'88 GTA w/ t-tops
355 TPI, TPIS airfoil, Edelbrock headers,
Flowmaster exhaust, cold air induction,
MSD 6AL ignition, ADS chip, 1.6 rockers on intake,
BMR STB, Spohn SFCs
=====
Stereo:
Panasonic CQ-DFX700U
Infinity 4x6, Alpine 6x9
Rockford-Fosgate Punch 400a4
80 watt Bazooka sub

 

Ummm.....did you ever have it re-aligned since you lowered it

If not thats where I'd start.

Then do all the other good stuff


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Mike L.
It ain't pretty.......

1987 IROC Z TPI 350 A4 3.27 Borg-Warner.

Mods: 2300-2500 Stall Converter, Shift Kit(GM parts), TPI Specialties Stage 3 PROM, Modified Airbox w/ K&N's, homemade cold air, Relocated MAT sensor, Gutted MAF, 160* thermostat, Accel 8mm Wires, bypassed TB coolant, Flowmaster 3 chamber single 3" in/out muffler, 3" MAC mandrel intermediate, custom dual !cat Y-pipe. airfoil, ported plenum. !smog

http://www.MichaelLasiuta.home.att.net

**BOYCOTT LAPEER DRAGWAY**

 

Thanks for everyone's suggestions - but just to reply to DownWith -- I didn't take offense to the statement, because I know in a lot of times that's the case. However I'm not talking about a situation where I'm doing 30 around a curve and manage to break it loose. I'm talking extreme situations. My '85 T/A has to be the LEAST predictable car I've ever driven. I've owned a '76 Corvette, an '86 Cutlass, and a '91 Caprice (just to cover 3 widely varied styles) and I'm not saying that the T/A handles worse than any of them, but as far as PREDICTABILITY it's another story. In all of my other vehicles, I can FEEL what the car is doing. When there's going to be a loss of traction, I'm able to sense it before it happens and either respond to it or prevent it. In my T/A, there's almost NO driver feedback. It's like it either handles perfectly, or my front end is trying to slide into a curb <g>. As I said in my first post, I can deal with OVERSTEER, but the car has nowhere near enough power to overcome UNDERSTEER.
Again, I want to stress that my T/A does handle well, and that the understeer only happened one time in an EXTREME situation -- it was the one time that I've pushed it that hard. But, the fact that I had no clue that it was at it's limit and all of a sudden the front end flew to the outside SCARES THE **** OUT OF ME!
Has anyone else experienced this?