Is anyone running an aftermarket torque arm? If you are what brand are you using, and does it work? I would also like to hear from anyone who has relocated the mounting point from the trans to the tunnel. I'd really like to do this, because it's the last weak link in my suspension. I'd just like to know what's the best bang for the buck.

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'89 Red Formula 350- 350 .060 over forged pistons 232* @ .020 cam Performer RPM Holley 750 DP Vortec 1.94 1.50 Accel Coil and dist. Hedman shorty headers Dual Exhaust w/ cutouts 1LE WS6 suspension, wheels, and brakes, 9 Bolt 3.27 Posi Edelbrock LCA's & Track bar subframe connectors 700R4 A&A snorkel scoop Eclipse Head Unit Delco Bose Speakers 2 12" Pioneer subs w/ 400 watt/chanel amp

 

I'm using Steve Spohn's... picked it up used, I bought a set of his LCA lowering brackets, and a set of Lakewood LCAs (not all of this at once). The car has had SFCs for a long time, like since not too long after they became available.

Steve's TA replaces the trans crossmember with one that his arm attaches to. It's avaliable either with a polyurethane bushing for the street, or a rod end for racing. He also makes a driveshaft loop for it.

It seems to work extremely well. I had an extreme wheel hop situation, coupled with a tendency for the rear end to fishtail violently. It was hard to drive under full power (400 with roller cam, Holly 800 4-barrel, etc.) because the chassis was so unstable. I put the LCAs on first; they helped some, noticeable but not revolutionary. Then I added the TA; bigger difference than the LCAs, noticeably tighter ride; it felt like a rubber band had been taken out of the driveline and rear suspension. Then I put in another rear end to which I had installed the LCA brackets; OMG!!! Perfection! The car launches hard, straight, and effortlessly. I can hit it hard and it won't spin. I can gag it at almost any speed and feel the car's rear come up instead of squatting; and if it goes over a bump, it makes it hook up harder instead of letting go.

I have a 10-bolt in the car with the 91-92 disk brakes, 3.73 gears, crush sleeve eliminator, the axle tubes welded all the way around, all new bearings etc., and an Auburn Pro posi. I like the whole setup.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

I also use a Spohn TA. It's an earlier race model before he started adding the loop. I originally bought it when I had a 700R4. When I converted to a TH350 I only needed to do a little modification to the tranny mount for the TH350 to work. I'll modify again when I eventually go to a Powerglide tranny.

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Follow my racing progress on Stephen's racing page
and check out the race car

87 IROC-Z SuperPro ET Bracket Race Car
461 naturally aspirated Big Block

Best ET on a time slip: 11.242 altitude corrected to 10.89
Best MPH on a time slip: 121.52 altitude corrected to 125.89
Altitude corrected rear wheel HP: 497.9
Best 60 foot: 1.546

Racing at 3500 feet elevation but most race days it's over 5000 feet density altitude!
Member of the Calgary Drag Racing Association

87 IROC bracket car, 91 454SS daily driver, 95 Homebuilt Harley

 

I am running a Spohn and I love it....

I highly recommend his products....

I have the race version and dual-integrated driveshaft loops....

[This message has been edited by raven350 (edited July 31, 2001).]

 

Thanks for the posts. It really helped me a lot.

 

I also have a Spohn torque arm. It definately makes a difference in weight transfer and makes the car hook harder. I also highly recommend the Spohn products, they are good quality and the tech support is great too.

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best 1/4 mile so far: 13.4 @ 101mph

84 Camaro 305 ported & milled heads, 3 angle valve job, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, Hedman full length headers, Accell ignition, Crane 274H cam, B&M 700R-4, 3000 stall speed, 4.10 gear,
M/T ET street tires
visit my website at http://www.geocities.com/jbenge/page1.html

 

Until you break one, which several people have done. But Spohn does replace them, so the support is good.

I'm putting in a BMR torque arm.

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1991 Camaro Z28
5.7L 5-Speed (originally 305)
13.23 @ 107.62 MPH
Southern California
Member: SoCal 3rd Gen F-Bodies
Webmaster: SoCal F-Bodies
-=ICON Motorsports=-

 

I have never heard of anyone breaking one....

Who broke theirs and what were they running????

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Sportsman II 72 CC heads, Pete Jackson gear drive, Performance Resources chip, SLP 1 3/4" coated headers and Flowmaster exhaust, Trans-go stage 3 shift kit, Vigilante 9.5" 2800 stall convertor, SunCoast creation Functional Ram Air hood, SLP roller camshaft, 24lb ADS injectors, AFPR, 3.45 rear end gears, Stealth intake and 58mm setup, Spohn suspension, and other goodies...


raven

 

Think there's any benefit to boxing the stock torque arm? I have a spare one in the backyard, just sitting there! There's not that much to box, though...


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

I am buying the lake wood traction action lower control arms and was looking at getting or even making a torque arm how wood these work with each other? good? or bad?

 

A torque arm is an independent system from the rest of the suspension. You can mix and match all you want. What this really means is a really great torque arm will work really great with any decent suspension. Although, keep in mind the purpose of the torque arm. The Global West unit, for instance, is designed for road racing so don't expect it to excel at the drag strip and vice versa with something like a Random Technologies unit. The Sphone is one of the most versitile with drag racing being it's primary function.

 

The "Traction Action" setup is basically a ladder bar. Therefore it will not work with the torque arm. I would not recommend it for the street at all, because it will bind when going over bumps with one wheel, going around corners with any degree of body roll, etc.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

Huh you make them sound like total junk. I don't see how that would be and I am not using it as a cornering machine I wan't good solid traction I am sick of going down the road catching ruber in almost every gear and having to race by dumping the clutch at 500 rpms and still melting the tires. If I go and buy a torque arm what are the prices.

 

They're not junk, they're just a special-purpose thing, drag racing only. Not suitable for the street.

Click on Steve Spohn's link at the top of this page and go to his site, I think that's the best deal going for a street-strip car. Like I said, that's what I have, and it works great.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

A few people out here in California, a 4th gen, and a 3rd gen, and several other 4th gens around the country. I watch the 3rd gen break his for the second time last Saturday, and all he has is a 305 5-speed with SLP headers and nitrous, he runs mid 13's.

 

kevin91z:

Is there anyone on the board here taht has broken one?

Not questioning you at all and not saying it isn't possible, but the quality of mine was superior and I haven't heard one bad thing yet about them...

Guess it is just hard to believe with the detail that Steve puts into his pieces...

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13.3 @ 100.3MPH 95 degrees and 95% humidity w/ no tuning

Sportsman II heads, Gear drive, Performance Resources chip, SLP 1 3/4" headers and Edelbrock muffler, Trans-go stage 3 shift kit, Vigilante 9.5" convertor, Functional Ram Air hood, SLP roller camshaft, 24lb ADS injectors, AFPR, 3.45 rear end gears, Stealth intake and 58mm setup, Spohn suspension, and other goodies...


raven

 

Doesn't the spohn piece have a ball joint so it won't bind?

 

There are two things about it that make it so it won't bind.

The first is the part that's under the rubber boot. It's a telescopic arrangement where the arm slides into a tube from the front mount. This allows it to slide front-to-back, and also rotate when the axle tilts.

If that's not enough, there's a rod-end front mount available.

 

I cant think of anyone on the board, but I've seen pics. They've broken on the front, they've broken on the back. How much do you know about suspension setups to say its superior quality with a lot of detail?

 

The reason any kind of a ladder bar setup binds, including the "Traction Action" thing, has to do with the simplest facts of geometry.

What those do, is take a single point of attachment (in the case of these cars, the frame end of the LCA) and attach a triangular object to that single point. So, imagine if you will, a long skinny triangle with the point bolted to the frame up there, and the "base" of the triangle, which is the short side opposite the "point", welded to the axle. Now imagine its motion as the suspension moves up and down. The triangle describes an arc around that front mounting point, and the "base" of the triangle changes its angle with respect to the vertical as the triangle rotates on its point. Everything is cool as long as the triangles on both sides move together. Now imagine what happens when the triangle on one side rotates a different amount than the triangle on the other side, such as what might happen when cornering, or going into a driveway sideways. Since the 2 triangles on opposite sides of the car are at different heights, and therefre rotated differently about their "point", one will be at one angle to the vertical, and the other at some other angle. But the axle is a solid thing that can't twist. So how can it work? Answer is, it can't. Something, somewhere, has to give. It won't be the axle, and it probably won't be the triangular bar. It will be the bushings if there are any, or the "frame" of the car. If you stiffen the frame to keep from tweaking the car constantly, you just put more stress on the whole thing.

So, the bottom line is, those things are good for straight-line use only. None of the roads I drive on every day are in perfectly straight lines, and they probably aren't at your place either. But this is what makes them desirable for drag racing: it's physically impossible for the car to do anything but go straight, so when you nail the gas, .... it goes straight. Every time.

That's also why you can't run these together with a torque arm. Only one thing can control the rotation of the axle as it moves up and down, forcing everything else to rotate on its bushings; more than one thing, and something will have to give.

 

So, a torque arm is pointless to have on a car that is daily driven and setup to drive like it's on rails? My car will probably never see a drag strip, only corner carving.

 

I didn't say anything about a torque arm.

In these cars, the TA is absolutely essential. It's the thing that keeps the whole rear end from trying to rotate itself out from under the car.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

That's absolutely right. Lift bars are no good for cornering, becaue the rear end tries to twist everytime it moves up or down. My idea (not the best) is to used lift bars, but not connect them to the crossmember when I'm driving on the street. I also plan on using cables to run through the lift bar/corssmember mounting point to allow movement, but not enough the dig up the pavement or hit the floor boards. Good control arms, torque arm, and panhard rod are essential for good cornering. I'm trying to get the best of both worlds.

 

I can't see how cables would work in that place... they would allow the wheelbase to change in addition to the other goal. I also can't see how you could have both the lift bars and LCAs installed on the same car, even if only one of them was hooked up to the front LCA attachment point at any one time, since they have to occupy more or less the same volume. And you still can't use lift bars in conjuction with the torque arm without the LCAs; you would have 2 different systems trying independently to control the rotational attitude of the rear axle, which is guaranteed to bind and otherwise misbehave, and then if you hooked up the lift bars with cables, zero systems maintaining the wheelbase.

The right answer for a street / strip car is a good torque arm, LCA lowering brackets, good control arms, and SFCs. There's really not much sense in going to all that trouble, only to find out in the end that you've outsmarted yourself. IMHO the lift bar kit is not the right answer for anything but a single-purpose trailer queen.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

Would a torque arm made for carving "HURT" Strip performance?

 

I've managed a 3-inch crack in the base of my torque arm near the rear housing. I've tried to weld it, but it keeps cracking. Check my sig for mods...Approx 270 rwhp...14.0s @ 98+mph w/2.1 60' time(sux because of wounded torque arm)


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1990 Firebird Formula 350 speed density TPI; Edelbrock HI-FLO base and Runners w/portmached plenum; air foil; Comp Cams 1.6rr; Edelbrock 1&5/8" headers; MSD 6AL, HEI coil & plug wires; underdrive pullies; Hypertech stage II chip; AFPR; B&M stage II shift kit; 3.73:1 rear; Jamex 1.5" lowering coils; Spohn subframe connectors, LCA's, and LCA relocation brackets; free mods; !cats; !Smog Pump; PLUS...1300w stereo weighing 200 lbs.

 

>Would a torque arm made for carving "HURT" Strip performance?

No, it wouldn't. In fact, the factory T/A, and other aftermarket ones that fit the same, are WAY too long for either road racing, or drag racing.

With typical ride heights and weight placement, the optimal length for a T/A used for road racing should be about 33-38 inches. For drag racing, make this about 30-33 inches.

If you've moved a SERIOUS amount of weight back, this moves the CG back from the firewall area, and requires a shorter arm for each application.

Likewise, if you've lowered it a LOT, and have removed weight from the top of the car, the CG would be lower then the camshaft, and would require a longer arm for each application.

Since, I've both, lowered it a lot, and moved weight back, my arm's optimal length didn't change much.

If any of you want to measure it yourselves, the optimal point is found by finding the point where the floorpan crosses a line drawn from the CG to the center of the rear tire contact patch.

A torque-arm mount placed there provides the best use of reactionary force on the rear axle.

This point can be safely used for drag racing, mainly because y'all ain't so worried about brakes. For road racers, using this point would cause wheelhop on hard braking, especially, if you trail-brake into corners. It's NOT fun. So, start by finding that point, and add about 4-6 inches to it. That's usually enough.

CPCamaro

 

SSM lift bars do not use lca mounting locations. They have their own crossmember or brackets. With the suspension that I have there won't be much movement in the rear while the lift bars are connected, so I don't think bind will be a big problem. I'm doing this for an edge in street racing, because no one ever looks under a car. There always concerned with what's under the hood. I'm going to have two sets of SFC's, one that follows the tunnel and one that follow the rocker panels. Plus the lift bar crossmember and lift bars for street racing. The chassis should be really stiff without needing an obvious roll cage. If only I could find some drag radials that didn't look like drag radials. This car isn't going to be a sleeper, but I don't want to scare anyone away either.