88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

hey everyone i want to get rid of my kyb gr2 shocks and struts and get real performance shocks and struts.... i was wondering which would be better for a daily driver... i love to corner whenever i can. i already have full bolt on suspension.. i feel that the kybs are not cutting it and even more so considering that the car is lowered with the prokit.. tires will be next after i get shocks and struts...

i was either thinking of these bilsteins

http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/s...88&autoModClar=


or these konis

http://www.hotpart.com/shop/index.ph...ct_detail&p=15
http://www.hotpart.com/shop/index.ph...ct_detail&p=14

here are my suspension mods....

WS6+ suspension
aggressive street alignment (vetrucks specs)
Kuhmo Ecsta Ast 245/50/16 tires 33psi
Spohn Front end rebuild kit with poly tie rods
UMI Adjustable Strut mounts
KYB GR-2 Front struts
KYB Gas-a-just rear shocks
Eibach Pro-kit lowering springs
Heater hose spring mod
36mm front sway bar with poly bushings
24mm rear sway bar with poly bushings
Stock painted A arms poly bushings and poly ball joints
new poly front and rear sway bar endlinks
Front K-member Braces
UMI Steering Brace
BMR Strut Tower brace
BMR weld in outer subframe connectors
Alstons weld in Inner subframe connectors
BMR non adjust Torque arm with poly bushing
Edelbrock On car Adjustable panhard bar poly bushings
J & M Street non adjust Lower Control Arms
Founder Performance lower Control arm relocation Brackets

camaronewbie

David:

Don't know about the Koni's, but the Bilsteins can be ordered cheaper, arrive faster (24 hours), and no shipping from advance or autozone

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

hey jeff.... i know you have the bilsteins shocks and struts on your car along with the prokit...... how does your car handle...... i have heard on this site that the koni yellows and the bilsteins are the best for our cars.... im

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

well i searched the fourms and it looks like people prefer the koni yellows better than the bilsteins for all out handling and lowered cars..... looks like im going to get the money busting konis in july...

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

Night and day my friend. Night and day. You'll love the Konis.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

how much of an improvement are koni yellows over gr2 and gas adjust shock struts....

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

well now that i know im getting koni yellows what are good tires in 245/50/16 size..... i currently have kuhmo ecsta ast tires and they are all season tires..... i want some good tires to go along with the koni's..... i kinda want max performance summer tires... but i dont want to spend more than 600 for a set of tires.... i know what my next income tax money is going to be used on..

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

As for the benefit of the Koni over the KYB, Hellz_Wings just replaced his 1000 mile old Tokicos with Koni Yellows and swears by the Konis.

I'd say that stock being 1, Konis being 10, that KYB is around a 3-4.

I've had my Yellows for about 6 months now. I have zero regrets except for wishing I'd done it years ago. It's not just the performance of them that's impressive, but also the daily driver streetability. They react SO QUICKLY! I was driving home from a concert a few weeks back on a street near my home that I drive on everyday at 25-30 mph in traffic. Since it was near midnight, I was doing about 50 mph. There is a large dip in the road that I never notice at the slower speeds. But that night, the car felt like it got airborne. But what happened is that the Konis rebounded so fast, that the car never even dipped down or came off the ground. It was like the wheels and tires shot down like Inspector Gadget's car. Almost stilt like. So while the car was high, the tires were grounded. No compressing down either. Good stuff.

Tires? I used to recommend the Goodyear GS-D3 tires that I have. Great in the dry. Excellent in the rain. But I can't recommend them now. They're nearly impossible to get. Discount Tire doesn't even list them anymore. And I had to replace one with a Michelin Pilot Sport all season back in January. I'm going to be replacing the other 3 with P/S A/S as well fairly soon.

The GS-D3 tires don't last as long as I would have liked. I suspect the Michelins should last longer. They have a 500 tread wear rating compared to the 280 tread wear of the GS-D3. And being an all season I would think should last longer than the summer tires anyways.

I wanted to get the Pilot Sport 2 tires, but they're 17"+ only. And the Pilot Sport summer tires aren't available in our size either. Just the all season version.

However for a budget tire, I'd go with the Firestone Firehawk Wide Ovals.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

yea im definitely switching over to koni yellows now..... my struts and shocks seem to get into the turn abit late and they dont feel instant when turning if i can say that... and i was looking at the firehawk tires over at tirerack..... they are 476 for a set of four and they are alot better than the tires i have now... so it looks like im going to have to wait till feb to get these parts..... considering they are so expensive...

DJP87Z28

You want the most expensive Strut & shock package, but you want to go cheap on TIRES. Try some Good tires with your present set up and feel the difference.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

what tires do you recommend

DJP87Z28

I will leave that up you, but not any Goodyear crap. Go to tirerack.com and do your reseach ther. More info on that site(MFG, Size, Price, Reviews and Tire ratings) then anywhere else in my opinion.....

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

thanks... well i looked and i have the cheapest tires lol..... these are what i have
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....omCompare1=yes

and i was looking the indy firehawk oval tires and they are a much better tire than the ones posted above

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....omCompare1=yes

the tires i have got a 6.7 rating
and the firehawk wide oval tires got a 8.7 rating....

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

so i think with koni yellows and firehawk wide oval tires would make a good shock/strut/tire combo for a fun handling daily driver car....

89_RS

Goodyear Eagle F1's. They are darn near the best all-season performance tire you can buy.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/GDT-793314270/

Only two better tires I can come up with are Pirelli P-Zero Rosso (make sure they are made in Italy, the domestic made ones suck big time) and Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus.

The thing you need to know is that suspension starts with: tires, tires, tires! Then you add all sorts of go-fast goodies to the suspension.

ASE doc

I love my Koni Reds. We put Koni Yellows oin my son's '02 Ram Air and I was impressed with them as well. The Konis are monotube and very durable. For tires I like the BF Goodrich KD T/As. However, they are a summer tire for maximum traction on dry pavement. Of course I never drive my beasty in the rain. That's what the Suzuki hoopty is for.

iroc-z1988

I got bilstein on all 4 corners..its verry hard to describe the feeling that they give you ...for me the iroc-z was born with bilstein so...! eibach springs just love the combination...

Homer23

Way to go resurrecting a dead thread

IROCtheRoad

Thanks for that informative post, Homer.

Anywho, I've can't compare Bilsteins to Koni's but I did put Bilsteins HDs on my 2002 Camaro and the difference was amazing.

From a cost point you can't beat the Bilsteins but if $ isn't an issue I would go with the Konis (going off what I've read over the past decade).

BMR Tech

Get the Konis and don't look back! haha

Koni shocks are a very good choice and so are Bilsteins. In the past, BMR has sold many different brands of shocks/struts for the 3rd Gen and the 4th Gen. The most reliable and well built have been Bilsteins and Konis by a land slide. You'll be happy with either option.

Shocks make a bigger difference on ride and handling than most people recognize. But certainly don't put junk tires on the car, otherwise the benefits of the nice shocks will be diminished by the lack of traction ability/grip.

- Kevin

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Bilstein > Koni

paul_huryk

I'm going to agree with Kevin - can't go wrong with Koni or Bilstein - you can add QA1 to the list due to the high quality products they offer for F-Bodies the last few years. I have the Bilsteins on my Camaro and love them - now they are 20 years old!!!

In terms of importance, shocks (or struts) and tires are at the top of the list. If you were to compare an F-body with all season 245-50-16 tires with dead shocks to one with a new set of shocks matched to the springs and an aggressive summer tire, the difference would be huge. Maybe 0.10g in handling (maybe more)...

This has been discussed on the tire board a lot lately - the lack of 245-50-16 tires in anything other than an all season pattern. Apparently the manufacturers of the high performance patterns are quickly stopping production in the older sizes (sizes that no longer come OEM in 2010+). I only counted 3 high performance patterns in 245-50-16 the other day... You all should be considering moving up to a 17" wheel in the near future as options will continue to decrease over time; 275-40-17 size is very popular and there are dozens of choices for almost any application.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

I never thought shocks would make a big difference until I put Bilsteins on the car. But - I did put Eibach springs and Nitto extreme's on all at the same time.

The ride is a bit rougher, but the car handles like it's on rails now...especially compared to what it used to handle like with the with BFG's, stock springs and worn-out Gabriels...

brdofpry85ta

iTrader: (1)

You an't go wrong with either Firehawks or the Nitto's, both are excellent tires.....

So far it's been koni's over Bilstein.....what about Koni's vs. QA1's

The Koni's are more expensive, but the QA1's have more adjustments from what I've seen.....

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

The few that have suggested koni over bilstein are mislead, or dont really know what they're talking about.

The bilsteins are a far better damper.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

because?

A statement like that is useless without a reason.

Define better.

kmcn47

hard to beat a lifetime warranty that iirc isn't voided by racing the car

gabriels are an abomination i hate when people buy them from me if i was a better salesman i would convince everyone to buy Bilstein, i wish i had them on my camaro

i agree

SlickTrackGod

I have had them all. Bilstein's do not compare to a Koni when you put them on a shock tester. The Koni's have a much better responsive disc valving setup for performance driving. Bilsteins are for luxo boxes and smaller lightweight cars. I also have probably more experience with QA1 shocks than anyone on these boards either- they are NOT reliable- ask me how I know? Ive rebuilt probably 100 of them.

Konis are by far the best dampering qualities and the best longevity at that level of performance. There is a reason when a shock damper costs so much- its called quality.

You guys that are saying Bilstein over Koni have absolutely no experience with both dampers- absolutely none.

Edit to add info- Even the Bilstein high dollar long travel shocks used in the Baja1000 and such have given way to the better King shocks because of reliability issues. Bilstein has fallen short and still cater to the Luxo box market as well as making the standard dampers for new car manufacturers- they have fallen to the ranks of Monroe etc

I just love reading when people give opinions solely based on the fact that "they bought them sp it is the best". I run QA1's on my truck- they are decent when I rebuild them contastatly- but go to crap quickly without maintinace. I run them simply becuase they are cheap and I also have a massive rebuild kit to change disc valving and such becasue that is the shock I was limited to use by rules under NASCAR when I was crew cheif for that Supertruck team

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Monotube and inverted monotube keeping the oil cooler, more consistent performance when you're actually driving hard.

Monotube design allowing more piston area, allowing for more control at lower shaft speeds.

Very easy to rebuild, and revalve yourself.


Sorry dean, you're FOS on this one and i'm calling it. On many points.

1st, that line about koni having a better response setup, no, not even close, the little twin tube shocks they have for thirdgens cannot physically be more responsive than the Bilsteins, you're actually trying to claim Konis twintube stuff is better than Ohlins, and Penske here, BULL, as each of them use similar diameter pistons. So unless you are just saying the Koni has a better out of the box valving, youre fos, if you are saying that, its pretty petty to ignore how easy and cheap a revalve is on the bilsteins.

You want to also start talking racecar stuff and your supertruck team, good, now go argue with the CURRENT alms teams that won on bilsteins. Their race shocks to the stuff under thirdgens are the same parts, yes you dont get the adjustable MDS shaft, but dont get too confused here, the shock itself is the same and most people on the street wouldnt benefit from it much over proper valving anyway.


Now back to the Konis and why they arent better:

Actual info, and someone who has had them on a dyno:

http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html

Note that I consider ***** on shocks as ways to get the forces to match on the dyno, or to rough in forces while testing; I never, ever, ever muck with the shocks during competition. I've run hundreds of shocks on my shock dyno and the repeatability of shock adjusters is downright horrible on anything except the highest end shocks (and even these have their quirks).

People who have had Konis on a dyno and not talking out their, well... have flat out illustrated that they arent the same consistently, 1/4 turn on one shock might get it to match the other shock and that if you are actually trying to use them for the adjustability, you would need to buy a bunch, dyno them and match them.

Bilsteins PSS9 adjuster as highlighted even sucks for this, the PSS10's however are a different story.

And again from DG's site:

Let me make this as clear as I possibly can: THE ADJUSTERS ON YOUR SHOCKS ALMOST CERTAINLY DO NOT DO WHAT YOU THINK THEY DO. Unless you have something high-end, like a Penske, and you've taken the time to clock the adjuster window on the shock dyno, the ***** on your shocks cannot be trusted to work. Most shocks of the same model DO NOT match each other on the same adjuster setting, and each click DOES NOT make the same change in force. Most shocks make very large changes per click near the "full hard" setting and make very little to no change near the "full soft" setting

So, after you eliminate the Koni's iffy adjusters, we're down to a quality twintube vs a quality monotube, again, monotube wins.

Add to that fact you can use other parts to upgrade the Bilsteins to something so far better than the Konis its unreal, remove the dividing piston, hookup some hoses and add a quality compression adjuster, put the bilstein MDS shafts in and you've got dead accurate rebound adjustment.

The rears also use a 46mm piston like Ohlins, allowing you to use anything in their lineup for pistons (technically you can get the 46's up front, but you'll have to buy the new 46mm rally shocks and build a custom setup)

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Its also amazing to see you make a statement claiming that the konis can do much better on a dyno than the bilsteins, i'd think you would actually know that the Bilsteins can be revalved to match any curve you can come up with on the Konis, not to mention that there are plenty of people who have had issues with Konis race strut inserts when stepping up to higher rate springs, and often going to Bilstein as a result.

As well as Konis highest end stuff being a monotube using similar design and dimensions to the bilsteins.

More monotube vs twin tube

http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/issu...ontentid=38417

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Bilstein piston compared to something like what you'll find in a Koni:

SlickTrackGod

Here's a shcok dyno graph comparing Biistein and Koni- for you "Bilstein experts"

If you do not know what you are looking at then you do not know what you are talking about.

If you are still reading is becasue you will want to keep reading so that you can learn what I am about to explain to you in comparing the two brands- If you think you know then don't bother reading this.

The revound valving is above the lone, the comprssion is below. Note that the Vistein is in red and is NOT adjustable at all. Its compreesion side is a basic linear valve disk. It comes on harsh at low velocity piston speeds and continues to just build pressure consiitantly as piston speed builds- your basic standard valving that most budget shock manufacturs use- very easy and inexpensive. The Koni;s however use a far better digressive valve dix that bleeds pressure off on initial comprssion stoke to reduce harshness and maintain road conform, then the "progressive build pressure from there (note I did not say linear build, they go from Digressive to progressive as piston speed inceases on "compression side" valvingThis slows a coil spring progressively faster from compressing alot like a bungee cord would progrssively sloww a jumper prior to recoil- not just a one speed then reversal effect- it slows the frequency for a controlled reversal- THIS IS IMPORTANT ON A HIGH RATE PERFORMANCE SPRING

Next we go to the all important "Rebound side of the dampering. Not that Bilstein only mimics at best the Koni at Konis lowest setting. However, as Koni ramps up the pressure, it again is digressive in its high demand performance state, and then builds linear fairly quick, and then very quick as recoil strength build from the amount of compression force the spring have absorbed and is about to release. It controls the chassis properly with enginnered valving to set the damper qualities at the proper piston velcoity requirements.

Its all about quality of valving you are paying for

THis should perminatly end the silly myths people on this post are hyping. Proof is in the facts, not opinons. Hope you still love your Bilsteins (those that put down Konis^^^)

Dean

SlickTrackGod

Z28ricer...Im FOS? Why not try keeping to the facts of the 3rd gen Bilstein shocks and struts versus Koni 3rd gen shocks and struts.

This is the options everyone is talking about so lets stick to the dampering qualities of those two choices

You've fallen into marketing propaganda showing that silly Bilstein disc vlave comparison pisture. That is not a Koni disc and its certainly not the size comparison of a Konit strut to a Bilstein strut

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

SlickTrackGod

So you keep using info from some autox guy making his own graphs and has this *** backwards from wha tthe industry does as standard

Is this teaching me something?

I really also want to copy and paste that graph before you mysteriously erase it becasue in my life I have never seen a shock damper valve on a graph start off going backwards agaisnt atmospheric pressure....WOW ...you could keep your coffee warm all month in that vacuum

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

So with that post you've shown two things, you want to quote a dyno graph of a shock, and dont know which side is what.

The Top of that dyno is the compression side, this is shown quite well by bilsteins excellent digressive piston, which they're quite known for, the same piston in a thirdgen rear shock is the same in a bilstein $400 race circle track coilover.

You also show that you dont know much about whats available from Bilstein, and claiming Koni has some sort of superior design, when in fact Bilstein has several pistons available to create far more curves and whatever forces you want.

Furthermore, you try to push the Konis superiority based on one dyno graph, good job comparing those two exact shocks you believe the Koni has a better force for the application, again, the Bilstein can be valved to have more or less force anywhere on the graph compared to the Koni, you're also somehow ignoring the fact that the Konis out of the box arent going to likely match each other, and as Mr Grant points out, its really only good for matching them up using a dyno, the bilsteins are consistent out of the box.

Yes the "option everyone is talking about" excuse, the fact is that the Bilsteins can be ordered with any valving you want, its an option, you are trying to claim the Koni is a superior damper and that isnt true at all, again the valving in them specifically may, and I strictly am listing that as a small possibility, MAY be better for some people, however the reality is that the Bilstein is a far better damper, design, and tunability.

Bilstein Digressive standard piston:



Bilstein COB/RBT piston



Bilstein Linear piston and cob/rbt piston:

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Whether your graph matches that, or is backwards, you are trying to claim that bilsteins are linear, and not digressive, when very few of their street shocks use a linear piston, actual forces from the bilstein can be easily made to match the Koni, or make anything above or below it.

As I've said already, and you can try to refute it all you want with claiming the valving is better, the fact is the bilstein is a better damper, even if your opinion that the off the shelf konis have a better valving for the application, the Bilsteins can be ordered with valving to match, or as said go anywhere above or below. In the end the Bilstein is still a better damper, which was the question, and the answer.

SlickTrackGod

Wow are you off on a tangent. SLow your roll homie.

People are asking about whether they should purchase Koni Yellows or should they purchase Bilstein HD shocks and struts for their 3rd gen.

Where on here is anyone comparing VERY HIGH DOLLAR custom valved Bisteins to the Koni over the counter shock and struts where we all comparing until you came along?

You want to talk about your Mr Grant- why not show a picture where his 350hp Talon actually drives around on overshoots corners on 3 wheel and not 4- This guy is qualifies to be an expert here on over the counter Konis and BIlsteins for 3rd gen applications? He only wins becuase he has massive power back in the day on a car that was not a popular class. Appears he got out of it int he mid 2000 when he started getting his *** cleaned by other competitors

Zricer, in all due respect, lets stayt focused on the two products everyone is comtimplating buying, not going into custom high dollar stuff- at that point Penske will clean everyines *** in 4way performance. Stick to the topic man, stick to the topic- Im being very patiennt with you trying to keep you on a good debate but stay on subject.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Your dyno was a generic one that you yourself posted, without having actual forces listed, you should have known better.

Heres a Bilstein one for you with actual forces listed, no i'm not going to bother looking up what application its for:




Well i'll be damned, digressive progressive compression, progressive rebound.

I could go on all day and post a hundred graphs showing the Bilstein doing everything you can come up with on the Koni, and then some, the difference is that the koni twintube isnt going to do it consistently on a track.

Not to mention the fact that any of the people in this thread could buy the parts and revalve the Bilsteins themselves in a short amount of time.

SlickTrackGod

I don't give a darn if Bilstein call their valve a pig or a goat. If it is a digressive valve it still is dynoing on the chart as a linear motion. A pig is still a pig even if you name it a goat.

The graph I put above shows teh Bilstein HD and the Koni yellow together on a chart.....and you are still argueing against hard cold facts

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

A set of Bilsteins can be ordered for no extra charge with whatever valving you want.

Bilstein will also work with you and design a shimstack for anyone willing to do the required measuring and provide the numbers, or as i've already said, you say that the Koni valving is much better off the shelf, simply send them your request for those forces and get your shocks that way when they arrive, no extra cost.

Again if you want to stay on subject, as i've already said:

The question of which is a better shock, the Bilstein, the end.

You want to base your arguement off of the valving for each, and thats fine I can respect that you think the valving is better on the Konis, however the Bilsteins can be had at no extra cost matching that valving, and are a much better shock.

SlickTrackGod

Better in my book is a sar that is faster(lower lap time) on a race course.

Show me a car with the same dollar spent on shocks from Bilstein that I spent on my car with Koni Yellows that would beat me?

I want to see hard facts to back your statement. I have alot of factual documented references of my car with Koni's on it.

I also had a Vw Karman Ghia with Bilsteins that I switched to Konis (I bought both new going fo the best when I built that car (Had over 30K into that back in the 80's)

I currently have a W202 Mercedes that I just got 5 months ago with Bilstein sport shocks on it and I am changing them becuase they feel like like a mush box. Point blank, "I" think Bilsteins suck compared to Koni's. I have quite the reputation that I think more people would trust what I post than you when it comes to opinions. Its not like I don;t have Bilsteins, I do and I am getting rid of them for something better. Not that they are crap chocks, they just suck compared to Koni's/ I am not going through tall the BS in trying to custom damper this car with buying takeaparts, or buying high end adjustables so I can fine tune valving, Koni research has done a damn better job then anyone else in doing that out of the box. So I am taking off mu decent Bilsteins and buying better Konis because I need that for my safety with my level of driving skills.

Ill read anything else you say, but I am done with repating anything more as for I feel this debate has ran its course

So show me a shock for the same price on a car as a Koni Yellow that will beat its own time from taking off the Koni Yellow and putting on a Bilstien that is the same price or even $200 more per set of 4... I am waiting for hard facts, not opinions. Any car, documented lap times on any website where they ran both and the Bilsteins yielded better lap times?

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Again, you still dont seem to get it, good the off the shelf valving of the yellows was good for your setup, you know damn well valving varies greatly depending on every last detail.

Good for the one guy out of 100 here, they may be better valving wise, for that one who tracks the car every single weekend.

Again, the shock design of the bilsteins is better and more consistent, they will last longer as well.

Again the FACTS are that valving is subjective to the application, and you are still arguing valving and track times, for 99 of 100 people here with either under their car they wouldnt manage a difference that could be noted to either shock.

FACT the bilstein is a better damper, it will last longer, and is easily user serviced, rebuilt, and revalved, the Koni is none of the above.

Again the FACT is that the same valving can be had from a Bilstein, you wanted to claim that Koni has some superiority when it comes to Digressive valving which is completely false, again anything you can get from the Koni can be had from a Bilstein, with a longer service life and more consistency.

People ask what are the better shocks, again 99/100 arent going to track the car every single weekend for 3/4 of the year, they arent chasing a solo win, they are however going to drive on them day in and day out, and again the Bilstein are going to last far far past the Konis.

More dyno's from bilstein shocks and some sidexside's with konis, wheres this magic the koni can produce that the Bilstein cannot ?







This one with this said: "The monotube data is much less noisy, meaning that under conditions other than the nice smooth sinusoids that most dynometers use, a monotube still "does what it says it does", while a twin tube is much less consistent. "



Oh look, guy wanted to start with his Bilsteins valved like his Konis were, and work from there, where is the better piston design in the Konis thats so superior, he wasnt able to make them match ?




Again, I will say, you should know better and be able to realize that the differences in valving were shimstack and thats all, if you believe the off the shelf valving is great for those looking for every last bit because they're tracking the car every single weekend, thats fine, however as I've already said, the question what was the better shock, the Bilstein is the better shock.

In all cases:

Bilstein has a better longevity, better consistency, up front being inverted monotube a better strut due to less deflection.

In some cases:

The Koni may have better off the shelf valving.

paul_huryk

I'm not a big fan of theoretical superiorities of car parts, but a lot of valid points have been brought up in this thread.

With all the advancements in shock technology, one cannot underestimate the impact of adjustable dampers - single ot dual adjustables... I'd rather have an adjustable shock that can be tuned to what issues you face than one that is valved to a certain spring on a certain surface. Some flexibility makes all the difference!

kmcn47

despite said opinions i have always like bilsteins, we had them on my mothers 84 camaro (mine is almost an exact match minus the berlinetta rims and big chrome air cleaner lol) and it rode wonderfully for a camaro never heard them squeak either (my monroes do all the time) and we had them on our 93 blazer which was taken on some long journeys and on some serious trails, never had a single issue with them, they rode good performed well and lasted well past the truck did (trans gave out at 376,000 miles, even then only reverse was gone) i want a set for my camaro it will not only handle and ride better but i can guarantee they'll be the last struts i ever put on that car

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

I can't compete with the graphs and theory. So I'll bring this easy comparison to the table.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...i-yellows.html

Read the posts from "Twin_Turbo" at the thread above. He has 3 Third Gens. One with Bilsteins. One with Koni Reds. One with Koni Yellows......He likes the yellows the best.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

This again still falls under subjective, one persons difference in bushing / bearing choice for the suspension parts can impact what valving is the best.

Spring rate, etc.

Again, from a which is best from a technical standpoint, based on facts the Bilstein is the better damper, physically.

The same valving IF its the better choice for the particular setup can be had in the Bilstein.

Easy comparison:

Koni twin tube: 22mm strut rod, if that

Bilstein monotube 40mm OD strut housing, less flex and camber change due to this by having a stronger strut

Koni twin tube: twin tube damper, not as good as monotube due to heat capacity, and less cooling ability

Bilstein mono: better shock oil cooling, and more oil capacity

Koni twin tube: smaller twin tube pistons, ultimately not as good as a large dia mono

Bilstein mono: 36mm pistons front, far better than the koni twintube, 46mm pistons rear, even further better

Koni twin tube: good luck finding rebuild parts or anything to rebuild yourself

Bilstein mono: easy to find rebuild and valving parts, simple easy to do the work yourself

Koni twin tube: inconsistent adjusters

Bilstein mono: no adjusters, some would call this a downside, however the reality is that at the price level any adjusters included arent going to be very good, as has been proven with the Konis

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Which Koni is twintube? The front struts? I was pretty sure the rear Konis were monotube, never investigated into the struts, though.

I have Koni yellows and I love them. I cant afford to buy Bilsteins and compare, so it's an interesting discussion... But Im happy with what I have. Ive had em on the car for 4 years now and they feel just as tight now as they did when I put them on, and they were used. They were in an autocross car for a year that got returned to stock to sell. Im not too worried about durability with them, they seem to be holding up fine. Subjective judgments are such a pain, though.

The end-user rebuildability of Bilsteins is pretty awesome, though. That's definitely a little nugget to keep in the back of my head.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Good point, the rears are indeed mono, the fronts are twin.


You arent really missing out that much if you have Konis, i'm not saying they're junk by any means, just that the Bilsteins are better as far as a shock.

The valving is subjective, but even someone who wants to track the car every weekend, the koni valving can be had straight from bilstein for the same price as you can order them anywhere, you just have to ask for it.

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

First of all, who is revalving their shocks? I'd say 99% of the people on TGO will never re-valve their shocks. Both companies have lifetime warranties. If they need re-valving, they'll simply be replaced.

I have the Koni yellow front/rear setup. The fronts are variable adjustment. The rears are the detents. But I've never adjusted the rears from the "0" click setting. The rear is monotube. So let's take the rear out of the equation and just talk about the front.

Are my fronts 100% equal in terms of left vs right? Of course not. We're talking variable adjustments using the eyeball method. But the car is not 50/50 weight for L/R. That's why my driver side springs were much more saggy than the passenger side springs were. I'm 230 lbs. The passenger seat is empty.

If the Koni ***** are so inaccurate that they're way off. Then it would be noticeable. And easy enough to adjust. I've only run mine at full soft, 1/2 turn, and one full turn. The range between min and max is 2.25 turns. So even at one full turn, I've only used aprox 44% of the rebound setting.

I typically run them at 1/2 turn for normal daily street use.

With the Bilstein, I get....."nothing".......The Koni yellow is an entirely different beast going from full soft to one full turn from soft. The guys that run them turned all the way up must like ultra firm rides. I live in Houston. Our concrete roads and potholes would never work with maxed out **** settings.

I fail to see how Bilstein can cover the huge range that Koni offer in terms of driver comfort at low rebound to high performance at higher rebound.