in the bagged truck world, people take their lca's out and weld in a cup like an 1 1/2 to drop the bags down lower. has anyone lowered the part that the spring sits in to acheive a custom lca? please dont say this is a car forum and not a truck forum....i am quite aware that it isnt and that there are lowering springs and drop spindles and coil overs. thanks

 

What would be the point?

 

One major issue would be the change in pickup point which would change the leverage a LOT. Your wheel rate would be cut in about half, so the car would be MUCH lower than you ever intended, and never come off the bump stops.

Also, where would your upper spring seat be?

By the time (money) you went though all that trouble, you could've gotten weight jacks and a bunch of different springs and had anything you wanted...

If you just dropped the lower seat straight down, the axle tube would be in the way...

 

Are you talking about front or rear lca? This is impossible in the rear. The spring sits on the axle .not the control arm. On the front, it can work, but then you have the spring cup hanging lower on an already low car. This could cause other issues.

Its not practicle to.try this on this car, the suspension is not setup in a way that would allow this kind of modification

 

In the truck world, people are working on ........ what?


In the F-body world, people are working on F bodies.

Since the suspension is COMPLETELY different, ignore what people in truck world do, when you're working on F bodies.

Yeah I have a half-brother that lives in Madison, I understand COMPLETELY where you're coming from. Doesn't change the laws of physics though.

This is REALLY not that complicated.

Which end of the F body are you wanting to know about?

 

i'd bet he's talking about the front, and actually means A-arms.

you cut the cup where the front spring sits in the a arm, add material, so that the surface that the spring rests against will be lower. this will lower the whole front of the car. I would probably just get lowering springs.

 

Ah, I saw LCA and thought rear. My fault. The front makes slightly more sense.

That said, why not just relocated the whole a-arm down via long ball joints?

 

This would be a pointless modification. No different than cutting your springs except that you aren't increasing your spring rate like you would with cutting the spring.
So with the roll center going way down while the spring rate remains constant, the car will roll like a boat.

 

the front lca's....sorry

 

in other words,

when springs have a coil cut off, the spring is shorter, thus the gap between the lower control arm and the upper spring pocket gets smaller.

lowering where the spring sits in the lower control arm would also close the gap but retain the stock spring rate. a 1 inch lower seat would actually give you 2 inches if you measured the distance the lower ball joint actually moved up

i was thinking that just like a drop spindle doesnt change the ride, this idea wouldnt either.

the way this could be fabricated: since you would have to take the spring out anyway....take the lower ball joint loose...take the control arm off. plasma or grind a circle to cut out the lower spring pocket...take a peice of steel pipe and slice off an inch....slide it into the hole....weld it....then weld the spring pocket back in.

i would take a saturday to cut and weld them in.

the advantages would be a close to stock ride and would only cost 20 bucks in metal.

or i could just buy $250 lowering springs and live with a stiffer ride

my car has 6 inches of clearance, with a 2 inch drop and 4 inches of clearance thats plenty but i would then be worried about tires rubbing before a lowered spring pocket scraping. look at the bottom of your lca and also account for a tad of negative camber...it wont even be close to scraping...idk, i figured this had been done before

 

dude, i am not a beginer at lowering, im sure i have been lowering cars and trucks before you were born...how can you say the suspension is totally different? are you a ***** and cant tell the a f-body has a upper spring pocket and a lower control arm almost exactly like a s10 or c10? who is making it complicated? if that's complicated, you need to stop posting on suspension threads! this is not an attempt to save money or hack in any way. the whole question i had was....has anyone done this to get a lowered ride hieght with a stock ride....they already handle so a stiffer spring is not what im after.

not sure what you mean by the madison comment...i am not from AL, so it's pointless to stereotype.

 

exactly. i do have the money to buy lowering springs or coil overs. what i am trying to acheive is a good stock ride but 2 inches lower. i can build the lca's for almost nothing. just wondered if anyone else had done it. i have cut a oil off of a 85 s10 blazer, 86 c10, 67 c10, 62 bel air, 84 s10 and had a stiffer ride. i have also put on an eibach pro kit on a 99 civic and ground control/eibach/koni's on a 96 integra and also ground controls on a 97 del sol......none rode very smooth....my 88 already rides rough and dont want it to be worse

 

so faking dom ....i guess that tells it all

 

im not sure that would work, we want the lca to get closer to the upper spring pocket.

another idea would be to cut the lower ball joint mount and raise it...this would be an alternative to buying drop spindles....i have seen this done to lca's when there were no aftermarket drop lca's available
also, before rewelding it and boxing it in...you could move it in to correct negative camber

 

thanks, i can accept that as a valid concern. the spring would be 1 inch lower but the drop would be 2 inches. still a concern? i couldnt imagine it being that much of a change in the engeering.......?????

 

this is an example of lowering the spring pocket for mounting an airbag lower. but instead of the flat bottom plate, i would use the original spring pocket welded at the correct angle....it would be exactly the same except mounted 1 inch lower and causing a 2 inch drop. the stock spring rate would be the same, but since the car's center of gravity would be lower, i would think that it would handle better.

 

the above picture is a 73-87 c10 lca. the pupose for this is to lay crossmember. drop spindles and bags would put a c10 owner's truck 2 inches off the ground with a 28 inch tire. dropping the bag down 1 inch would give you a 2 inch drop and will let you lay crossmember. the crossmember touches the ground and the lca's do not.
the lca's are very similar to f body lca's....a little work for a stock ride. in fact, i can pull lca's off a junkyard car if it ends up not working.

 

IIRC, lowering a-arms are already sold for 3rd gens, which means people are doing exactly what you are talking about doing, except that lowering springs are a MUCH simpler way of doing it.

 

If you lower the spring bucket, the car will sit lower and the angle of the control arm will move just as much as it would with a drop spring. I'm with Pablo. Its pointless and will not worl as you are thinking

This is process accomplishes the same thing as cutting a spring

The only thing it would possibly provide is the ability to use a longer spring or a stiffer spring without changing the ride height. Certain trucks may have issues with the sprinjg being too short after lowering and this would correct that issue.

 

i agree with you. everything will be the same as using a drop spring. the key is.... the spring will be stock and have the same ride as stock. in my opinion my car already handles well with a stock spring and a stiffer spring isnt needed. i could shell out a couple hundred bucks for lca's or drop springs...ideally i'd do a drop spindle but i dont have 5-600 bucks for drop spindles.

drop springs=stiffer
cut coil=stiffer

drop spindles=stock ride
lowered lca's=stock ride
modified lca's=stock ride

20 bucks for the stock ride with the same affect===1st choice

 

alright cool! who sells the lowering a-arms? i may just buy some and also replace the ball joint at the same time.

 

Or you could just get a shorter spring with the same spring rate as stock.

I know, pretty revolutionary idea. No need to thank me.

If you do proceed with this "modification" please post about it. I for one will be entertained by all the work for nothing. Might even turn into a viral thread. Here's your shot at fame, jump on it.

 

give me the part # for a shorter spring with the same spring rate and my hunt is over. i'll thank you when you can cough up that answer.

if i do this modification, i'll definetly post it....if you're scared of a couple hours of work to get the best results, maybe you should'nt be posting comments...anyone can buy lowering springs and slap them in. you seemed to be missing my point and what this thread is all about....i want it to ride like stock....when you can come up with an answer that doesnt cost 550 bucks and will give me a stock ride, i will be entertained. until then

 

Issues:

Most lowering springs are NOT MUCH stiffer than stock for F-bodies. This is precisely why I cut my stock springs and sold my Eibach Sportlines. Sportlines will give you the drop and rate you're looking for, and put you on the bump stops just as often. Once you're on the stops, the ride becomes *significantly* stiffer...

Using extended balljoints corrects a problem. The A-arm going up from the inner to outer pivot actually creates handling issues. Granted, with what you're looking for, I doubt you'd be affected by them, so it probably isn't a big deal in your case (or in many others).

One other issue that's often overlooked- many shocks vary in damping rate by position. They "ride nicer" near the center of the stock suspension travel. If you lower the car, you'll probably perceive the ride to be stiffer because of increased damping.

You claim your car already "rides rough". This certainly won't help the situation. Stock spring rate on an 88 TA is supposedly somewhere around 600 lb/in if I recall. Look at what's available from Moog and go softer than that. I'd consider the MOOG-5032 if I were a gambling man...

The point is that no change you make to the suspension will give you a "stock ride" unless you leave it stock. If it were softly sprung at the lower height, you'll be at the lower end of the travel constantly, thus why the factory chose those dimensions and rates.

No one here is going to physically stop you from doing what you propose. If, however, you're looking for us to validate the idea, or moreso to encourage you, I think your time would better be spent on the car.

Also, what are you planning to do with the rear suspension to compensate?

 

I only seem to recall seeing them before, but already told to you by several Members, they aren't the best choice. I never Bookmarked who makes them.


You can get get whatever spring length & rate from:
http://www.ground-control-store.com/...ory.php/CA=211
https://www.springworks.com/coil-lea...ing-order.html
http://daymotorsports.com/prodindex.php?g=~Shocks%20%26Springs~Front%20%26%20Rear%20Springs~
And I'm sure those aren't the only places to get them, but that will get you started.

 

i simply wanted to know if anyone had ever tried this, if someone chimed in and said it worked for them, i would go for it. (and i may still go for it) instead, i got several people saying it couldnt be done before they even understood the question......it seems this forum has more of a closed minded mentality that im not used to...if it hasnt been done, then it hasnt been done. dropping a spring 1 inch doesnt seemed to be a big deal. easy compared to shortening the frame on my long bed or building a step notch out of 2x3 1/4 tubing

i guess now i'm leaning towards cutting my stock springs for a 2 inch drop and just live with the increased spring rate. it will be a change since i am used to riding 2 inches off the ground with the last 5 or so cars. this is my dd and i want to be low and ride smooth. my 86 c10 has 8 inches of drop in the front and 12 inches in the rear, so i guess i can deal with a 4x4 trans am.

thank you for the very good info you've given. i really like the way you shed light on some things. what do you suggest for the rear?

 

thanks bro......appreciate it!

 

sccajunkie, i plan on putting 18's on it with 245/45's. a suggestion on a rear setup would be great. thanks

here's the type of wheel im trying to find...wish they came in our lug pattern:
http://forums.thecarlounge.com/showt...zero-good-deal!!

 

Changed my mind on this one. After some consideration I now believe this is a great idea. I apologize for putting forth my ill informed opinion, I'm still pretty new and learning.

I'm eager to see the results and might be interested in purchasing these arms if you are interested in selling them.

 

man, i dont know. im kind of thinking now after what scca said i may just cut my springs. but either way, if i cut springs or modify lca's it wont be til june when i have a good 2 or 3 days of garage time. there is nothing worse than getting deep into a project then being pressed for time. and before i loose a bunch of clearance i want to make sure my car is reliable. i still want to work on my headlight doors and get a late model firebird console and build a strut tower brace before i move into suspension. im a truck guy...so until i know im going to keep the car...i'd rather not modify to the point where someone wont buy it because its too low. i want it slammed so that due to tires it cant be any lower...haha...i also need to determine how to tuck an 18 inch tire just to the point where it wont scrub. ive got it bad....an example...i couldnt find a 2wd tahoe to slam. i was stuck buying a 93 yukon 4x4....slammed it 8 inches around with 18s

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

my last 3

traded the s10 for a stock c10 and 3 months later bagged, step notched and close to laying frame even with stock spindles. and guys told me "you cant go low with leaf springs" i found a way and did it...

 

 

 

 

 

 

since it's my thread....i went ahead and posted a bunch of my previous projects. i want to lower the trans am as low as possible......the del sol so far has been my lowest dd...i had 1 and 1/2 inches under the exhaust. i would like to get my trans am down to 2 inches of clearance. probably get some used 18 inch tires that are a tad too low profile. then if the 2 inches doesnt work i can buy new taller tires.

 

What do you plan to do for the rear? Even after you remove the bump stops, the axle tubes will hit the inner fender/frame and you'll have clearance issues between the axle tube and exhaust. After that you run the risk of bottoming out your shocks.

 

You'll retain a far superior camber curve with the extended ball-joints.

 

im open to suggestions, what do most people do?

 

To be honest I haven't found anyone else that has tried lowering their car that much aside from bagging it. In that case they just air it down until the suspension is bottomed out. I plan to relocate the lower shock mount 2" downwards, then I'll notch the inner fender well for suspension travel.

 

kind of what i was thinking. raise the floor/inners. move the exhaust up the same amount the floor is raised and shorter shocks. i havent really looked into the rear yet. i know there is alot going on in the rear. ive only had my car for less than 2 weeks

 

In the rear of our cars, above the rear springs, there is a large hollow cavity. At least a 3" gap between the spring seat and the raised floor behind the back seat. I know, because I just filled mine full of concrete, to better transfer load from my gooseneck hitch directly to the springs, without collapsing the car in-between. That raised floor is for the gas tank, not the springs. I suggest dropping the axle, putting the spring rubbers back up in there, then trace around them. Next, cut around those marks you just made. Instant 3"+ lowering. But you'll need to add some reinforcement, similar to what I made for my gooseneck, but the stresses will be different.

 

Not unless you drive stupid. In 2 years of my bumpstops being cut out & running 7"bs 17"x11" rear wheels, I haven't bottomed anything out. Think ahead when driving & all will be just fine.