Originally Posted by FireDemonSiC

So, this is not a promise or a precursor to anything at the present moment, but for the sake of gauging interest how would you all feel if UMI began manufacturing an Inner style set of subframe connectors to compliment their existing outer style that goes along the pinch welds?

I really think this is one of those parts that could use a market expansion.

Originally Posted by 87350IROC

What would be better about it than all the other inner SFCs? If the answer is nothing, whats the point of making one?

I think time would be better spent on more unique produces, like how about a spindle with improved steering geometry?

Originally Posted by FireDemonSiC

Like I said before, this is not a promise or precursor to anything.

Maybe UMI could improve the design, or maybe they could offer it at a cheaper price. I can't seem to find the inner style subframe connectors on the MAC site anymore, which bumps Alston down to the only current manufacturer and every time I go to their site the order page lists them as out of stock. Even if they are still available, a single choice is not giving us much in terms of diversity.

Again, this post was just to gauge interest in hopes that they could possibly go into production, and responses like yours aren't helping. If there is a product that you think might be beneficial, do the same thing and inquire with them about it.

Originally Posted by 87350IROC

I'm just asking. If you are petitioning a company to produce a product, why not suggest improvements. The biggest downside to the inner SFCs seems to be ground clearance. So how about a version that tucks better?

It is so boring to see these companies copy eachother. I'd like to see more innovation.

Originally Posted by FireDemonSiC

That is definitely a good point (Especially on lowered cars), and should be something addressed in the event of a production run. This is the whole reason I started this thread. I wanted to show UMI how the community felt about it. Currently, it has only been suggested and there has not been anything said to insinuate that it will be produced. I started this thread to show them the demand for this item and so users could share their owns thoughts on it.

I'd say if they addressed ground clearance, added another piece or two for additional bracing and possibly offered a competitive price point this could be a very successful product.

Originally Posted by 87350IROC

I think time would be better spent on more unique produces, like how about a spindle with improved steering geometry?

Originally Posted by rlewi771

spindles please

Originally Posted by FireDemonSiC

You guys are not at all being practical with this.

Originally Posted by FireDemonSiC

These are items that will not find their ways into 95% of street cars.

Originally Posted by FireDemonSiC

Only cars that are used for competition such as road racing/autocross will realize the benefits of these items. Someone who just wants to be comfortable with high speed lane changes and have reduced chassis flex while going fast around turns are not going to need anything on that list to benefit them during a weekend cruise or on their way to work.

Originally Posted by FireDemonSiC

You are speaking as if you are under the assumption that everyone on this board is a competent fabricator and knows how to use a welder.

Originally Posted by FireDemonSiC

I understand the need for these other types of parts, but generally speaking the crowd that would benefit from a set of inner style frame connectors is different from the crowd that would benefit from a power rack & pinion setup.

Originally Posted by FireDemonSiC

If you guys are that interested in spindles, you are more than welcome to contact Ramey and create your own thread.

Originally Posted by 89_RS

I beg to differ and say we are being very practical. There was only ONE company producing an inner style SFC and that is Alston Chassisworks. Something tells me that if there was a huge demand for them, other companies would be producing them as is the case with perimeter style SFC's (Spohn, BMR, UMI, PA Racing, S&W, Jegs, ect.).

The SFC market itself is fairly saturated as is with very little as far as differentiating features go. Spohn produces a tubular SFC, UMI makes one the reinforces the LCA Chassis mount, BMR makes two kinds for different exhaust options and most everyone else makes some version of either BMR or UMI's product. If Alston was the only guy making an inner style SFC and even they couldn't continue to make them profitably, me thinks that not a whole lot of people really are demanding an inner style SFC period.



To that end 100% of what all aftermarket Thirdgen companies produce will not end up on even 5% of all the Thirdgens that were ever made. They are called "aftermarket" products for a reason and are sold because there is enough demand for the company to make a profit at selling them. And that is a hard pill for anyone to take. As it stands, there really is no demand beyond what Alston was already fulfilling as far as inner style SFC's go. Same goes for the items I listed, although that I'd be willing to wager is more a function of cost than lack of demand.



So SFC's are a safety/comfort item now? I didn't know that. Need to let the floor that I replaced know that because it literally fell out on me during a 1200 mile road trip and the car didn't act as if it was structurally unsound when I drove 85mph around Cincinnati on I275 during that trip. I compare that drive to being in an F1 grand prix and I didn't notice any more chassis flex than usual. I did however notice a lot more road noise.

SFC's aren't needed to reduce chassis flex if all you have is the stock power train and are just going for a weekend cruise. SFC's are needed when you start adding power or increase suspension performance that would result in high chassis loading than normal. If you need $500 worth of steel tubes welded to the under side of you car to feel comfortable/safe on a weekend cruise, I'd just like to point out that they aren't going to do you a whole lot of good when someone else hits you.



No I am not. I am however assuming two things here:

1.) Everyone on this board graduated from at least Kindergarten
2.) Everyone on this board is capable of earning & spending about $125 on this kind of fab project

All you really need to make your own flush mount inner style SFC's is:

Paper/Cardboard
Scissors /Utility Kinfe
Pencil/Pen/Marker
Tape
String
Plumb Bob and/or ruler

With just those tools you can make your own inner style SFC template. Then you can spend $40 buying the tube steel and another $80 or so getting a fab shop to cut & weld the steel per your pattern. And if you promise the guy a ride or a case of beer, you might even get same day service on the job as well.



I respectfully submit that you really don't. IMHO, theres three primary groups of people here:

1.) Street/Strip: People who really like going fast, cruising, and even drag racing
2.) Street/AX/RR: People who enjoy the twisties but don't want to get beat to death driving to the track.
3.) Racers: People who show up to the track with the car on a hauler and spend more money on tools & raw materials in a season than some of us will make in a year.

The Thirdgen aftermarket has pretty much reached saturation as far as catering to the weekend cruiser/drag racer goes. It's almost impossible to not find a vendor that doesn't have at least one product for this group. The AX/RR group on the other hand has been somewhat "ignored" and I understand why. A whole lot of people just want to go fast & have fun and thats fine.

But if you've seriously looked at just this subforum in the last two years, you'd see that there has been a huge rise in the number of threads about making the car perform well at the weekend AX and this segment of the Thirdgen aftermarket has pretty well been "ignored" (for lack of a better word here). Spohn's Del-Sphere & UMI's Roto-joint were the first real step towards streetable AX/RR items. Next came the caster/camber plates from UMI & J&M. Then came Racecraft with its RR 2" Drop Spindle. And that really is about all that the AX/RR crowd has to choose from as far as items that are specifically marketed to them goes.



I have on just R&P power steering several times, started my own thread, and even done a ton of my own research on it. Same goes for others wanting better spindles. The AX/RR guys are begging for aftermarket products that improve steering performance and we aren't getting it.

Originally Posted by FireDemonSiC

I hate to break it to you but I am not reading that novel you just wrote because I know we are only going to end up further arguing on the subject before this turns into an all out flame war.

Originally Posted by FireDemonSiC

Again, what you are looking for is to create an all out road race thirdgen with every part, incompatibility and area of improvement addressed.

Originally Posted by FireDemonSiC

What I am looking for is a simple aftermarket part that has been used before in the manner I am trying to use it more than once with proven success. Did you also see where I mentioned the purpose of this piece was to strengthen the chassis and improve handling on a DD/street driven car which is what about 80% of the people on this board use theirs for?

Originally Posted by FireDemonSiC

Furthermore to close the book, it was downright rude of you to hijack the thread I started by replacing my bright idea with yours. I'm not mad at the people who voted no, but there is a difference between "I can't see any practical demand for it" and "Well instead of wasting time on Y part it would be a much better idea to manufacture X part. I HIGHLY doubt a company such as UMI wouldn't be able to handle 2 projects at once.

Originally Posted by FireDemonSiC

Apparently, either there is not a strong demand for your X part either or you are too busy crapping on someone else's petition instead of starting your own or it would be in production already.

Originally Posted by 89_RS

And no I don't go around crapping in peoples threads.

Originally Posted by The Project

Umm.........

I wouldn't mind seeing more choices regarding either inner SFC's (tucked up is a good idea) or an SFC that offers more support (ie weld points and bracing) than the outer ones currently do.

Then again I know how busy UMI is right now...hopefully they will finish my black STB soon.

Originally Posted by FireDemonSiC

It really would be a very valuable piece if it went into production given the fact that the only option is to buy a used set cut off a previous car IF you can find them.

Unfortunately, I have a feeling that the select few people who chimed in and said it was a horrible idea if it meant that THEIR vision of an ideal part took a back burner to it that I don't think UMI is going to take it seriously now.

Real funny part is, now we not only have a very slim chance at a set of inner SFC's being manufactured, but this didn't push their part any closer to the next corporate meeting either

Originally Posted by 87350IROC

Not sure what you are talking about. TDS still lists them for sale. You suggesting the website is wrong?

http://www.top-downsolutions.com/cha...8aka-f-body%29

Originally Posted by lonsal

I had to wade thru a lot of posts to discover that Alston Racing has discontinued their inner-style SFC's. Nope, not true. I still purchase them from Alston Racing and continue to sell them. Just over a week ago I received 3 sets uncoated that were just fabricated for my order. I have never listed them as discontinued. Occasionally I'll run out or stock, but they are not discontiuned. Also to clarify, these are made by Alston Racing, formerly of Antioch IL. Heidts bought Alston Racing and relocated Alston to their factory at 111 Kerry Ln, Wauconda, IL. To further clarify, these are not made by Chris Alston Chassiworks. They are two separate companies and have been for decades.

In future, if you have a question about these, please call me. I'd prefer to answer the question directly so you won't mistakenly post incorrect information.

I still sell these as TDS 306020 in either powder-coated black or red. Not a surplus of old stock. They are still being produced. I hope this clarifies any misinformation regarding the product.

Thanks,

Lon Salgren