What can I change/add to get more traction and a better start off the line?

 

Basic traction mods:

- Better tries
- LCAs
- LCA relocation brackets
- Panhard bar


More "involved" traction mods:

- Better springs/shocks
- Torque arm
- Wider wheels
- Subframe connectors (Help at the track but their main benefit is in the handling department



That's pretty much all the main items without going into "track only" territory.

 

I bolted on the Spohn tubular LCA with poly bushings last week and that took care of my basic around town launch wheelhop with my 305 T5. For track I will go to better shocks and maybe torque arm as previous post advises. With more power sub frame connectors gotta be on the list at some point.....

 

That's THE ONE, right there. Fixes the defective geometry that was designed in and gets worse as the springs sag.

Nothing else is effective. Better tires make it worse; the Panhard bar does nothing whatsoever about it; the LCAs themselves and the torque arm have a small effect just from losing the springiness built into them, but don't address the REAL problem, which is the wrong angle that the LCA sits at, which is controlled by the mounting brackets.

SFCs won't do much about the wheel hop but are otherwise one of the most worthwhile improvements you can make.

 

are the relocated lower control arm brackets good for autocroos and street as well as just 1/4 mile launches?

 

I would assume so... I don't auto-x so I can't say for sure, but I definitely can't see how having the rear LCAs at the wrong angle like the factory put them for whatever reason probably not related to "performance", could possibly be of benefit in ANY way. They're MOST POSITIVELY an improvement on the street.

Set em to locate the axle end just slightly - emphasis on slightly - below the frame end; something in the range of ½" - ¾" lower at the rear than the front usually does the trick. Don't get carried away.

 

Lower control arm relocation brackets such as ours change the rear LCA geometry enough to squash the root cause of the wheel hop.

As Sofa mentions it's safest to run whichever hole gives a slight angle downward toward the rear.

 

I have sub frame connectors installed but those LCA relocation brackets, would they negatively impact how the car handles in the turns or anything? Im not tryin to make it a dragster or anything its a daily driver so I want it to still be practical for that.

 

LCA Relocation Brackets are second only to Strut Tower Braces on thread count and passion on the board. Ha!

The standard disclaimer is they can cause roll oversteer due to the downward slope of the arms. As the outboard wheelbase gets longer and the inboard wheelbase gets shorter, it steers the rear. Some drivers don't notice much and some find it very disturbing. It really is up to your tolerance for "changes" in how your car handles. Personally we run them on almost every car we have.

 

I am a little unclear, You and UMI are saying that even with good/newer springs and shocks that the angle still is wrong from the factory? I haven't heard it go that far. I have usually read that they were for correcting geometry if the car is lowered or has enough torque/grip to really throw the weight backwards and make the car squat much more. So, please explain.

 

Get up under your car and look.

1 pic is worth 1000 words.

Not rocket science here....

 

I agree. My car has new stock height springs, and it was noticeable that the LCA was higher on the rearend then the body. Opposite of what it should be. A set of LCARBS and 1 hour of time fixed that.

 

I don't appreciate the last comment, but fair enough, I literally just purchased a set of rear moog springs and Bilsteins that should be here today. I will install them and take a picture or two, before and after, should put the subject to rest. To clarify though sofakingdom, I was not saying you were wrong, just that I hadn't heard the argument go as far as from the factory and I was wanting to hear more of what you had to say....

 

Take an angle finder to the LCAs. Factory wasn't perfect.... look at the stock Panhard for verification of that statement.... lol
Autocross: poor angles let the car SQUAT. Pick an angle that turns that squat into forward motion.
Bonus: much more fun to drive

 

The factory does lots of things that might seem to us, out here, after the fact, as "for no reason". In reality, those people aren't / weren't "stupid"; but, they have / had reasons that might have been compelling to them, but are invisible or meaningless to us.

Aside from the usual suspects about vehicle function or serviceability that we all love to hate - emissions, ride comfort, fuel economy, economy period, part location, and so forth - there's a whole class of things that only exist inside the plant. One of the most often asked about is the "mystery connector" in FI cars... it's up near the distributor breakout, has one black wire (ground) and one pink/black (ECM fused ign), and doesn't go to anything. While I have absolutely no way of knowing this for sure, I'd bet, being a mfg engineer part of the time as I am, that it was used for testing the harness and/or the rest of the system. I suspect that the defective LCA geometry had a vaguely similar genesis; something like, either the fixture that the cars were built on before the wheels & tires got assembled on, or something about transporting them, didn't allow for the axle end of the LCA to be as low as it should have been because it had to clear something. Just a guess, but I'd like to think at least an informed one.

 

Will do, I still have mine from when I set the pinion angle on my Spohn crossmember mounted torque arm.

 

I appreciate the feedback everyone. So should the LCA relocation brackets do the trick or do you think I'll need to also do the Panhard bar, springs/shocks, or the torque arm?

 

You check the Panhard by measuring wheel to outside of fender- try to do same place on each side. As long as your car has not been hit hard there, this is pretty reliable.
You want the same distance on each side. If it is not, get an adjustable Panhard. The adjustable on the car ones are probably worth the extra $25- $30, just because they are easier to deal with.

 

The angle on the lca (founders double adjustable rod end) with worn out springs and shocks was 6*. So the front rod end was lower than the rear ends rod end. I replaced the springs with a constant rate moog (#5659) and the shocks with bilsteins and the angle changed to 3*. So the front was still lower than the rear after brand new springs and shocks. Needless to say I already ordered my lca relocation brackets!

 

Thanks for the info everyone. I'll invest in the LCA relocation bracket for sure, maybe I'll do the other stuff somewhere down the line.

 

After I took the angles myself, I realized how much misinformation floating around there is about this. I'm changing my opinion quite a bit, if you own a thirdgen and will do any aggressive driving, because of there low price and ease to install, these should be one of if not your first modification. I'll post the new angles once I get mine on, hopefully tomorrow.

 

Yeah, a lot of people say you only need them for lowered cars. Not true. Doesnt take long just to go luck and take a simple measurement.

Thanks for posting what you found. Maybe that will help others in the future.

 

I was reading this just by chance and understand a little better. It is a mod I will have to plan on at some point with sub frame connectors. I was one of the poor lost souls who thought only on a lowered car. I will check it after I get the motor and trans in sometime in the future.
Thanks guys for the great information.

 

Nice, thank you man this thread has been pretty helpful.