kcducttaper

Eventually, I'm planning on getting a 3rd gen, drive it for a while, drop in the ls3 (rated at 430 hp stock). I 'might' want to drop in a supercharger and/or some other upgrades (long time away though). I don't really think I'll want to get over 800hp because that's just silly for anything other than bragging rights. I'm wondering if I can run t-tops on 500-700hp (or a tad more) without too much problems. Of course I'd drop in some sub-frames and all, but I'd kinda like to get some wider tires on the rear too, so between the big power, big grip, and subframes, I'm wondering if t-tops would be practical at all, or if they'd just be a pain in the butt.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Not a big deal at all if you plan on the subframe connectors.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

SFC if your not lowered i would also put Alstons for inner and get some outer ones thats in the aftermarket and you wouldnt have no issues

kcducttaper

Awesome. Thanks fellas.

BMR Tech

At that power level, subframe connectors are 100% an essential part to install. The 3rd and 4th gens have a notoriously week/flexible chassis. Shove a powerful, torquey V8 under that hood, and you have a recipie for destruction! haha Thankfully, we're here to the rescue!

We have plenty of customers trashing the living hell out of their third gens, which are terrific cars for drag racing. Our subframe connectors have found their way under some extremely powerful cars and they're kept in shape by strengthening the weakest points of separation from the front and rear subframes and spreading that load across a large area to add strength.

- Kevin

LivinLarge

Are inner and outer connectors needed or just one or the other?

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

you can just use one or the other with alstons you loose ground clerance so if you want to go a lower ride height you will scrape alstons...they also connect the front and rear subframe directly where as outer will connect to side of front subframe and runs along the rocker to connect with lca mount

theres a sticky on sfc you get better idea there with pics

but your fine with just one with the outers i would weld along the rocker to make tad more stiffer

but both are not needed just overkill if its a daily driver

kcducttaper

I'm potentially thinking of going with airbags because of the ride quality that they supposedly give over stock or other aftermarket stuff, but I haven't really done a whole lot of research on it yet. I'll probably just stick with subs for a while. I'm wanting to make it more of a summertime daily driver with the ability to take it to some track days and munch on some mustangs, s2000's, etc, so it's not going to be a race machine or anything too crazy.

patricklav

iTrader: (7)

I have yet to see a s2000 crack a 14 at the track. Those cars cannot get off the line and arent all too impressive. A 500 HP third gen would destroy one of those junks.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I like the outer subframe connectors because the rear control arm bolts to them and they get stich welded to the rocker panels pinch weld. I'd like to add a lil crossbrace to the trans tunnel front subframe.
Mine are a ooooold set of southside machine connectors.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

not unless you swap a ls1 in it

kcducttaper

Well...part of the deal is my dad has an '04 s2000, so I want at least keep up with him on the track, if not smoke him. In all seriousness, that's a pretty dang quick car - especially for a 4-banger. It handles pretty well too, but they're made for weekend trips to the circuit tracks, not drag strips.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I love how casual you are about 500-700 hp... that's not easy. Requires everything in the drivetrain to be set up to accomodate that power level. You're talking about the range where the amount of power you have will melt street tires at highway speeds accidentally. You're cracking almost into 10 second quarter miles at 500hp, 700 is almost into the 9's if the car is set up right.

I just want you to have realistic goals, especially if its a street car.

AlkyIROC

I've never had any problems with my T-tops. The first year I raced it, I had SFC installed before I even went to the track. Nothing spectacular the first year. Did a bunch of changes over the winter and my first pass the next season got me a 12.0. At the time, a roll bar was required at 11.99. It's now 11.49. I installed a 6 point roll bar and ran down into the 10's before finally installing a full cage.

I've redone the cage since that first one and the car is now knocking on the door of an 8 second pass. Last month, I put it right up on the back bumper and still have not had any issues with the T-tops. A hard top car is easier to install a full cage into especially if you plan on having an interior.

I take my T-tops off when I'm trying to work inside the car. It just gives me a little more room to move around even though the cage limits how much I can move.

I got lucky a couple of years after I got my car. I swapped my glass T-tops with someone who had Lexan ones and wanted glass. I even swapped the locks over. Shaved a couple of pounds off the car. I think they were from an 89 Formula. The Lexan is still in good condition. I have flames painted on the top to match the car's paint and the underside is painted black to keep the sun off me when I'm sitting in the staging lanes.

kcducttaper

A stocker LS3 is 430, and with a mild cam, you've got 480. Drop in a supercharger, and boom, 600hp+ range. I really doubt I'll actually build it up THAT much, but I was just wondering if that would be a problem with T-tops at that power level. I know I'll need a new tranny, diffs, wheels, etc (even with a stock LS3), but it's all still a long way off. I've been wondering how hard it would be to drop in a newer camaro/corvette rear end in there as opposed to getting the upgrade parts.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

*sigh*... amazing how much the Gen III+ stuff has revolutionized the hot rod world. Gotta love easy 500hp!

Newer Camaro diffs are no stronger than stockers. 93-02 stuff has minor changes here and there, but all the gears are the same size, the only difference being minor posi improvements... and those can all swap back into our stock stuff. None of that stuff will last long at the power levels youre talking about.

As far as 2010+ Camaro rear... no one here has tried it yet, but probably impractical. With all the suspension mounts on the axle housing, it gets complicated trying to retrofit stuff in.

But there are companies that market pre-made solutions. Moser and Strange are good examples, both have 12-bolts and Ford 9" rears ready to drop in to our cars.

Beyond that, there are some guys who did a LOT of work and completely redesigned the back half of these cars to accommodate a C4 Corvette IRS. Quite a bit of very custom fab work and there's no "kit" or even consensus on the best way to do it yet. Requires a lot of engineering on your part to pull it off.

Most people who push those power levels end up with an aftermarket Ford 9 inch rear. Beyond that, the transmission becomes a concern. The 700r4's and 4l60e's can be beefed up to handle it, but they always seem to pop eventually. A lot of guys end up with Th400's and lose the overdrive, or go T56. The T56's are pretty stout, but that power level will require beefed up rebuilt T56's too.

At the speeds these cars go at those power levels, you wont find many that dont have cages either, so its hard to say whether sfc's are completely sufficient, but sfc's and a cage seem to handle whatever power people throw at these cars.

kcducttaper

I haven't really done a whole lot of research on the axle, but some upgrading will be necessary I'm sure. As far as tranny, I'm thinking T-56, or just find a modern manual camaro that's backed into a tree at very high speed and steal the engine and tranny out of that.

LB9GTA

iTrader: (1)

I am low 11's , without a cage, and with t-tops with no problems.

Up until last year, I never had sfc. it didnt seem to make a whole lot of difference, but my car only has 150,000km (94,000 miles)

Its easy to put in a engine with 500hp, but all the work comes after that to get the exhaust, trans, suspension, diff etc to match that power.
Ask me how I know....

kcducttaper

That's ok. I'll ask your sig how you know.

Homer23

*sigh*... amazing how much the Gen III+ stuff has revolutionized the hot rod world. Gotta love easy 500hp!

He must be a kid or rich.

Unless you have to have T-tops, try to get a hardtop. The chassis will be stiffer(still will need subframe connectors) and you don't have to deal with d&mn leaking unless you specifically find someone who recently had the gaskets/weatherstripping replaced. I have T-tops that had the gaskets replaced somewhat recently and they need to be replaced or modified again. The gaskets are pricey.

If you are only going to drag race it infrequently, you would be better off not even putting a camshaft or supercharger on an LS3 and just save that 3- 4000 dollars, superchargers are not cheap. 550+ hp on a street car is overkill because you wouldn't be using it too much, you would only be bragging about it online.

S2000's are a really good sports car, Top Gear has shown that it was the best sports car when Honda wanted to sell it. They must not be a good drag race car.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

Well it a balance light weight hi revving car that was made to for the track not to drag its all about balance and you can out perform a s2000 with the right modifications and blow a s2000

kcducttaper

Indeed so, but they have very little torque too. It'll be a lot harder to keep up in the corners than it will to blast him on the straights, but it can be done with the right mods.

This is intended to be a project car that will take at least the better part of a year when I graduate with my engineering degree. I know they can push $20k or more with this kind of setup, but no debt, no gf/wife, and a cheap (but reliable) daily driver does wonders.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

lol yea but you can do it for alot less then 20k but sounds like it should be a swweet project cant wait to see how its going to turn out

kcducttaper

It can be done for much less than that, but I'm wanting to build this up nice whenever money allows. Here's my general budget for it. It's not set in stone or anything, but I think it's roughly in the general ballpark for this type of restoration after all is said and done.

decent condition Camaro with everything working - $7000
LS3 and tranny - $7000 (assuming I find a good deal and sell the old motor)
suspension stuff - $1200
other restoring bits (new weather seals, paint, brake job, some interior work, etc)- $3000

SlickTrackGod

1 week later and we're still bench racing on this post.

You think you are going to spend $1200 on suspension and drop 700 hp in the car?

Kids and internet dreams

Jartzfreak

I am running around 400hp with t-tops and its fine... I am looking to upgrade more soon though

kcducttaper

If you want it to die, don't keep it alive. Also, if you'll read the thread again, I've mentioned that I'm not shooting straight for 700 right off the bat, if at all. The point of this topic was to see if the frame on the t-top version would be plausible with 700hp or not. Now that that's done, I see no problem in letting this thread die. Pardon the rant, but I hate when I see negative posts that don't offer any helpful advise.

SlickTrackGod

Kid, I gave the most realistic advice of the entire post.

Ill see where you are at with this project in a year. You have a long way to go before you even worry about a problem like that

Everybody now days thinks they can have 700 hp. 400 hp is too much for most people and is certainly far enough poweer for a street car. You need anything more than that then you are lacking driving skills and are trying to just impress people with spinning tires nedlessly

Good luck with all that young Luke Skywalker


edit- On the note of HP. THese HP numbers in recent years are so far overrated on cars from aftermarket vendors its a frriggin joke. Not to be disrespectful to an acquaintance of mine (his car is still very nice and very powerful) but I just recently droive his 700hp Katech Z06 Corvette and as nice as it is and as fast as the car is, its not 700hp. I have a 540 hp 1968 vette racecar (documented and proven)that seriously has night and day noticibly more HP and torque then even that Katech motor....and Katech ios about as reputable name as it gets. I was kindof bored in his car, it just did not have the umph!!

kcducttaper

Your advise was that $1200 is unrealistic for 700hp, which it probably is, but that wasn't the point of this thread.

I doubt I'll even have a roller in a year. I'm getting the majority of my ducks lined up before I dive into this thing without knowing what I'm doing. I'm figuring out what I'll probably want in 10 years or so and making plans to accommodate so I don't waste money doing 'fad mods'.

Yes 400hp is a bunch more than most people know what to do with, and I probably won't be able to make the most of it for a while, but again, it goes back to the 10 year plan.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

i love your sense of humor makes me laugh everytime

you have a point and i agree anything over that is really not needed
but alot of guys are more intrested in straght line than turning curves

ive seen many times overpowered unblance setup being pass by smaller well balance cars with lesser hp which inturn are better drivers usally due to the fact of them pushing there car to the limit in a better balance car at autox events and tracks here in cali

i would like to see a stock with cam upgrade.. 5.3/T56 twin "small" turbo..tuned for responsivness and little to no lag and usable power with no more than 400 rwhp or a n/a 5.3 400 rwhp.. should be interesting. thats my goal .finishing up on stick swap this week..and alingment "not stock specs" lol. still need to redo my horrible suspension setup on mines

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

10year plan ... 2022 ???
just get a thirdgen and start modding

kcducttaper

I'm going for a bit of both, honestly. I'll 'probably' call it good in the 400 range for the straights, but I do want to make it go 'round corners much better too. All the power in the world won't do you jack-crap unless you can control it and put it down properly.

Well, the deal is I'm in college at the moment working on my engineering degree. I've been working a lot, so it's taken a bit longer than normal, but I have practically no debt, so that'll help a ton. Once I graduate next year, it'll take a little while to get up around $7000 to drop on a decent car which I'll probably drive as-is for a while until more funds come in for the upgrades. Perhaps 10 year was a bit far in the future, but I sure intend to have it pretty much done by then. This is very much in the prelim stages, but hopefully I'll get there one of these days.

JohnyKrieg

You're getting an engineering degree... next year... and couldn't figure this out for yourself?
All you had to do was go look through the super builds all over thirdgen.

kcducttaper

This thread has served its purpose and has since wandered well off topic, so I'm done with it.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

If I still have my thirdgen in 2022 I hope to be putting in the latest XXX or X,XXX hp electric motor where the only limitation for 0-60 is the tire compound!