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In Australia we drive on the left hand side of the road, so all of the cars are right hand drive (RHD). This is a major pain because it's a big and messy job to convert the cars to RHD.
Third Gen Camaros and HQ to WB Holdens all use steering Boxes from Saginaw.
Saginaw is owned by Delphi, so these steering boxes are sometimes referred to as Delphi units.
Delphi was originally the parts division of GM, but was spun off years ago to sell parts to other manufacturers. As a result, these Saginaw steering boxes appear on a number of different brands, even Japanese ones.
All of the right hand drive conversions I've seen in Australia use HQ steering boxes. An upgrade option may to instead to use RHD steering boxes from other cars such as a Jeep, BMW or even Nissan 4WD.
The best RHD HQ-series steering box is the 16:1 ratio power-steering box. The HQ box has a reputation for being a good unit, but I'm looking for an upgrade.
From what I can tell the HQ steering box is a Saginaw model 800 unit. There are two versions of the Saginaw 800 steering box for left hand and right hand drive. They appear to be identical, except for how they are mounted.
The best Camaro LHD steering box is WS or XH unit with a 12.7:1 ratio.
People here do a Jeep steering shaft upgrade. The reason the Jeep sterring shaft fits is it uses a similar Saginaw steering box.
An interesting bit of trivia for Australian owners is that there was a special US Postal Service edition of the Jeep that was right hand drive. I guess this was so that the postal workers could get in and out to the foot path without running around the car. This might explain why there are lots more Jeeps in Australia compared to other USA cars.
The Saginaw model 600 steering box seems to be the best upgrade. It is still available new (costs ($400) and has been upgraded over the years to a point where is is comparable in feel to a rack and pinion setup.
The Saginaw 600 box also comes in a 12.7: ratio, which would be better that the 16:1 ratio in a HQ Saginaw 800 box. The 600 is also a few kg lighter.
What I'm thinking of doing is getting a RHD Saginaw 600 steering box and steering shaft so I can upgrade both at the same time.
I'll fish around at some local Jeep wreckers and see if I can get the box and shaft.
Wow, that's waay more info than I've ever uncovered online about HQ boxes.
Originally Posted by peterc005
A 2005 Jeep Cherokee Wrangler Postal Right Hand Drive RHD Power Steering Gear Box seems to be the best option.
Can't even walk thru the wreckers without falling over piles of those
Don't know much about them at all. There appears to be two physical types - a fat chunky one like I've got, and a slimmer style more like the oem or Jeep one. What the difference is, iunno??
Don't know my ratio, but I've got 2.5 turns lock-lock iirc, and it's quick ratio in the centre, makes for lightning lane changes. The car is quite nimble. Stamped on the top cover is 'Bishop Bendix', and 'variable ratio'.
It's not a Saginaw 600, it is the Delphi 670. Saginaw did make a 605 box (only used it for a few years in the late 70s early 80s), but it is far far from an upgrade to the 800 box.
I think peterc005 is confused. Delphi seems to be a main supplier of parts to GM now (use to be AC Delco). Saginaw use to be a division of GM also (now called Nexteer), and now is just a parts supplier. It is nothing new that other manufacturers have used Saginaw steering gears or pumps or steering columns. (Jeep, Ford, Crysler, etc.)
HISTORY
1906 – Founded as Jackson, Church & Wilcox Co.
1909 – the Jackson, Church and Wilcox business was purchased by Buick
1917 – the Saginaw Gear Plant separated from Buick and became the Jackson, Church and Wilcox Division, the first GM parts manufacturing division
1928 – Saginaw Steering Gear created as GM division
1999 – the steering operations becomes a major business division in the newly created Delphi Corporation
2009 – Delphi’s global steering operations are sold to GM and renamed Nexteer Automotive
2010 – GM sold Nexteer to China-based Pacific Century Motors
Resurecting an old post. Hope this ramble is not too long.
My 86 Transam was converted, In Australia, by Southerns. They've used what appears to be a Holden HQ power steering box. Unfortunately the angle in which it is installed is slightly out of alignment with the firewall end coupling in the vertical plane. That is to say, it points up too high at the input shaft end of the box. This means that the intermediate shaft must angle down to meet the 1" DD at the firewall. This is chewing out the rag joint and killing the steering box seels! Been trying to find a correct fitting U-joint for the steering box end. Here's the dilemma...
Unlike every other post I have found the input shaft is NOT 3/4" 36 spline. It measures just over 0.8" or 13/16". It has quite a large flat on top and a spline about 1/3 the circumferance opposite it.
I have both Astro and Cherokee intermediate shafts and neither come close to fitting at the box end.
Anyone have any idea what this steering box is from and is there a U-joint to fit?
Any info on this would be most appreciated. Just about tearing what's left of my hair out trying to find a solution.
Thanks for the quick reply Guys. I knew someone here would know something about these boxes.
Thanks for the link Peterc005 but my box has had the needle roller mod' done and the top plate has 'Kirby-Bishop', 'Australia', 'Variable Ratio' stamped on it.
LX_SS: So the 3/4" splines are for the manual boxes... That explains a lot. I will have to see if I can find another HQ-WB rag joint and see if I can adapt it. Wonder if the spline itself can be changed over at the shaft. I'll do some more research on converting HQ-WB manual to power steer but suspect everyone would just use the power steer intermediate shaft.
Surely someone else in Aus' has had this problem? When I find a solution I will post it.
Also be careful to match up your couplings to suit your steering box, i have seen different varieties of hq-wb units.
I know the HQ-HZ is the imperial fitting box, Which is what i have. It has a slip on coupling with the bolt in the side.
WB im pretty sure had the metric fitting box, with a little difference also. The coupling was held on via a nut in the center with no bolt on the side.
Mine's got the bolt on the side. Faces straight up and down with the wheels straight ahead. I'll pay a visit to Pick-a-Part next week and get some 'raw materials'. Got a Mate with a lathe so should be able to sort it.
Gonna have to pull the box and rebuild it because without the tension from the rag joint it leaks at the pitman arm seal. Good as gold with the rag joint installed. I might even grab another box and rebuild it first as I drive the Transam regularly.
Thanks for all your help, Much appreciated. Have a great new years.
O.K. Got it sorted. Modified the Astro intermediate shaft using a U-J I already had and bits from a previously replaced original shaft. This should do the trick. Thanks.
The exhaust Y pipe on my car is off and I need to remove the starter to replace some fusible links, so this is a good time to work on the steering shaft. No much space on the right hand of the engine bay.
The upper rag joint on my car is a mess, and the people who did the RHD conversion used a big hammer to notch some extra clearance in the sub-frame, and I'd like to clean up that part of the car.
The two options are to either buy a pair of Flaming River universal joints and attach them to the stock steering shaft, or to replace the whole assembly with an Astro shaft.
From what I've read above the Astro shaft won't fit on the HQ steering box spline, can anyone confirm this?
Hi. You are correct. The Astro shaft is made to fit the stock (LHD) steering box spline. I modified my Astro shaft to fit so I could get some more header clearance at the top end. If you dont need the extra clearance you could modify your existing shaft. The Astro shaft is a much 'neater' way to go IMHO.
@86trNZam - just had a closer look after wiping down the steering box.
I too have a "Kirby-Bishop", "Made in Australia", "variable ratio" steering box.
Same as yours, the input shaft has splines plus two large smooth areas. Outer diameter of the input shaft was about 0.82 (13/16) inch or 20.8mm. Sounds the same as yours.
Can you confirm the Astro steering shaft for a 3/4 inch input spline and won't fit our cars?
Reading some more about Kirby-Bishop steering boxes, it seems they were used in XD to XH Ford Falcons.
Apparently from the XG Falcon the nylon bush in the steering box was replaced with a roller bearing which made it a better unit and is a common upgrade.
I know my variable ratio box has a small spline section on it with a flat section on the opposite side.
I couldn't find any uni that went on that, which is also why the astro shaft wont bolt to it. As far as i'm aware the stock box has splines all around the shaft.
@LX_SS - that's a good point. I assumed firstly that all steering boxes were variable ratio by the mid-eighties and all had a similar input shaft that was part spline and part smooth.
When they did the conversion it looks like the original steering shaft was used, with a different lower part of the rag joint.
Im pretty sure that the rag joints themselves were all basically the same.
I know mine had the hq box side, with the pins as you can see in the pic above ground off and replaced with bolts. This bolted to the rag joint which had the firebird/camaro gear on it.
Hi Guys. There used be a Holden supplied bearing and plate kit kit for the top bush. I recently attempted to get a second one here in NZ but it is long obsolete. Luckily I have one in the old box so will transfer it over once I have rebuilt my spare unit. As for the rag joint simply use what ever you want for an intermediate shaft and make up a plate and transfer the spline part of your old rag joint to it, See photos of previous post. You can get new rag joints for these boxes but they are silly expensive. Over here, The boxes are VERY hard to find as the stock car and collector boys have used them all up. An easily obtainable substitute would be nice.
10-19-2012, 09:13 AM
