Suspension and Chassis Questions about your suspension? Need chassis advice?

Been battling this front end issue for months

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Old Apr 18, 2013 | 08:22 PM
  #1  
Cmbmt's Avatar
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From: Montana
Car: 89 camaro RS
Engine: 2.8l soon to be changed
Transmission: T5 manual
Been battling this front end issue for months

I can't figure out whats wrong. I bought my 89 v6 RS with big plans in mind and can't even get past this. The best way to explain it is when ur in a truck with 4x4 engaged and you turn really sharp and it hops. I've replaced the ball joints and had it aligned and it still has issues. It has a non posi rear end as well. Any ideas? the idler arm is a touch loose.
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Old Apr 18, 2013 | 08:30 PM
  #2  
n1ffer's Avatar
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From: Birmingham, MI
Car: 1983 Crossfire Recaro T/A
Engine: 5.0L Crossfire
Transmission: Upgraded 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3:23
Re: Been battling this front end issue for months

What is the rim size and tire size? Sometimes a too wide or tall tire can scuff on tight low speed turns. My 83 doesn't seem to suffer from this, but my 82 used to do that. I had P215/65/15 on the 82 and they scuffed. I have I think P245/50/16 on my 83 and no issues.

It was strange. I just learned not to over turn at creeping speeds with the 82. I never had any other problems or any worn or unsafe suspension issues. Drove it for probably 60k miles or so and never had any front end issues.

My 83 has a completely new front suspension. That may be why it doesn't.

Not sure if I helped, but can at least understand!

lol
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Old Apr 18, 2013 | 08:35 PM
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JamesC's Avatar
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From: Lawrence, KS
Car: Met. Silver 85 IROC/Sold
Engine: 350 HO Deluxe (350ci/330hp)
Transmission: T-5 (Non-WC)
Axle/Gears: Limited Slip 3.23's
Re: Been battling this front end issue for months

The problem is common to our cars.

The following is from How to Tune and Modify your 1982-1998 Camaro by Jason Scott:

"The problem stems from high forces transmitted from the steering box to the chassis, especially under low-speed cornering, such as when maneuvering around a shopping mall parking lot. Fat performance tires present a great deal of resistance at low speeds, which imparts considerable stress into the steering system, and ultimately attempts to rip the steering box from its mounting surface--especially during "full-lock" turns, where steering torque is greatest. Over time, these forces weaken the chassis surface around the steering box and can result in torn metal.

"Whether the chassis is weakened or torn at the steering box, the result is the same--steering actions are delayed while the chassis flexes, leading to unresponsive and erratic steering. Ironically, though the damage stems from low-speed steering, the resulting problem is far more serious at high speeds than low ones.

"It is possible to repair the damaged area, though the best solution is to avoid the problem in the first place by installing a brace that reinforces the steering box mounting area."

The brace mentioned in the last paragraph is a steering box brace, aka, the Wonderbar.

JamesC
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Old Apr 18, 2013 | 08:36 PM
  #4  
Cmbmt's Avatar
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From: Montana
Car: 89 camaro RS
Engine: 2.8l soon to be changed
Transmission: T5 manual
Re: Been battling this front end issue for months

Ill have to check that out. I know that they are P215/65/ R15
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Old Apr 18, 2013 | 08:44 PM
  #5  
Cmbmt's Avatar
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From: Montana
Car: 89 camaro RS
Engine: 2.8l soon to be changed
Transmission: T5 manual
Re: Been battling this front end issue for months

Where do I find a brace or how do I fab one?
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Old Apr 18, 2013 | 08:52 PM
  #6  
n1ffer's Avatar
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Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Birmingham, MI
Car: 1983 Crossfire Recaro T/A
Engine: 5.0L Crossfire
Transmission: Upgraded 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3:23
Re: Been battling this front end issue for months

Originally Posted by JamesC
The problem is common to our cars.

The following is from How to Tune and Modify your 1982-1998 Camaro by Jason Scott:

"The problem stems from high forces transmitted from the steering box to the chassis, especially under low-speed cornering, such as when maneuvering around a shopping mall parking lot. Fat performance tires present a great deal of resistance at low speeds, which imparts considerable stress into the steering system, and ultimately attempts to rip the steering box from its mounting surface--especially during "full-lock" turns, where steering torque is greatest. Over time, these forces weaken the chassis surface around the steering box and can result in torn metal.

"Whether the chassis is weakened or torn at the steering box, the result is the same--steering actions are delayed while the chassis flexes, leading to unresponsive and erratic steering. Ironically, though the damage stems from low-speed steering, the resulting problem is far more serious at high speeds than low ones.

"It is possible to repair the damaged area, though the best solution is to avoid the problem in the first place by installing a brace that reinforces the steering box mounting area."

The brace mentioned in the last paragraph is a steering box brace, aka, the Wonderbar.

JamesC
That's a great point about the wonder brace. I know my 83 has one and I do not believe my 82 did. It would make sense that the wonder bar would help out with that situation.

A good day - I learned something! lol
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Old Apr 18, 2013 | 08:54 PM
  #7  
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From: Birmingham, MI
Car: 1983 Crossfire Recaro T/A
Engine: 5.0L Crossfire
Transmission: Upgraded 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3:23
Re: Been battling this front end issue for months

Originally Posted by Cmbmt
Where do I find a brace or how do I fab one?
You can fab one, search for a used on one on EBay or Craigslist, or buy an aftermarket.

I think mine is from Spohn Performance, although I would have to crawl under there to look and be sure.

There are other aftermarket makers. I think Top Down Solutions (TDS), UMI Performance, Hawks Third Gen, etc. have them.

A great upgrade!
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Old Apr 18, 2013 | 09:06 PM
  #8  
Cmbmt's Avatar
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From: Montana
Car: 89 camaro RS
Engine: 2.8l soon to be changed
Transmission: T5 manual
Re: Been battling this front end issue for months

Sweet thanks guys! Time to research!!
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Old Apr 18, 2013 | 09:23 PM
  #9  
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From: Iowa
Car: 92 Camaro RS
Engine: LS1
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 10bolt w3.42 Torsen
Re: Been battling this front end issue for months

my 92 does that. It goes to the body shop monday to have the frame repaired behind the steering gear box. I'm curious to see of it will stop after it's repaired.
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Old Apr 19, 2013 | 12:43 AM
  #10  
572_Rat's Avatar
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Joined: Oct 2007
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From: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Car: 86 Camaro IROC-Z
Engine: 565ci 900 hp
Transmission: T56 Magnum by RPM Transmissions
Axle/Gears: Moser 9" w/4:56 Detroit Locker
Re: Been battling this front end issue for months

UMI Performance is on this website, just asking Ryan he can help you out, fantastic person to deal with
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Old Apr 19, 2013 | 06:20 AM
  #11  
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From: Lawrence, KS
Car: Met. Silver 85 IROC/Sold
Engine: 350 HO Deluxe (350ci/330hp)
Transmission: T-5 (Non-WC)
Axle/Gears: Limited Slip 3.23's
Re: Been battling this front end issue for months

Originally Posted by n1ffer
That's a great point about the wonder brace. I know my 83 has one and I do not believe my 82 did. It would make sense that the wonder bar would help out with that situation.
The OE steering box brace, aka the Wonderbar, didn't arrive until 85 with the introduction of the IROC and its 16" wheels.

JamesC
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