TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

GRIP is KING!
A fast suspension needs to have some compliance, otherwise grip is reduced. This means it also needs to be somewhat comfortable for the driver to have confidence. Thus, ultimate grip is tied to having a degree of compliance (comfort).
Therefore, handling and comfort MUST co-exist!

The goal is to control the contact patch of the tires to keep the vehicle on the road, and generate maximum grip.
If you concentrate on making the tire-to-ground interface as efficient as possible, you will maximize the available grip. With more grip comes more confidence and usually more ride comfort.

Damping means producing a force to return a system back to rest.
All dampers or shocks are velocity-sensitive devices, in that they only generate force when there is motion. Springs are displacement-sensitive devices; they generate a force anytime there is load on the suspension and that load varies with the amount of spring compression. So the springs and dampers (part of the suspension) respond to the vehicle’s mass to control the motion.
A properly damped suspension will aim to bring the chassis back to rest as quickly as possible without amplifying the input motion (being too stiff) or allowing excessive oscillations (too soft). Stiff and soft are relative to the user which is why customization of spring rates AND damper profile is crucial to obtaining the proper vehicle performance, whether a pure track car, commuter vehicle or anything in between.

For handling, you want a low-speed damping adjustment and a shock that responds immediately to chassis movement (the better, the more expensive). A twin tube (Koni/KYB/Tokico/Tein/GAZ) will always lag behind a monotube (Bilstein, Penske) due to less displaced volume.

For overall vehicle control, mid and high-speed damping is crucial. This is where monotubes shine. They don’t generate the high internal pressures that twin tubes have to for the same force. Monotubes dissipate heat better and stay more consistent mile after mile than twin tubes.
A suspension that does not keep the tires in constant contact with the ground is not going to be comfortable OR fast! Vehicles like Porsche and BMW come with more gentle low-speed curves and more comfortable and better handling because of it.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Compression:
In a street vehicle you want relatively soft compression. . .you need adequate movement of the suspension to provide ride quality (so it absorbs the bumps as you go over them as opposed to transferring that energy into your seat); so you basically want the spring to handle the suspension when it compresses (bump). You can increase the compression damping of the shock, but the outcome will typically be a harsher ride as you are inducing more force into compressing the spring – like having a very high spring rate. High compression forces cause poor ride quality.
More compression force will help ride quality in an under-sprung car (maybe keeping the suspension from bottoming out), but will hurt ride quality in a properly sprung (or over-sprung) vehicle.

In a more "race oriented" vehicle you are typically traversing a relatively smooth surface, so you don't see much compression due to "bumps"; only compression due to major brake pedal application or major steering wheel rotation.
So compression adjustment becomes a means of slowing down the compression of the suspension.

Rebound:
In a street vehicle you need more rebound in the shock to slow everything down after the suspension has compressed.

The shock plays a major role in when the weight is transferred.
If the shock has too little rebound, the weight will have transferred to the rear before you hit the apex, and the car will push (understeer) as the front tires are picked up off the pavement (not really picked up, but it gives a better visual).

If the shock has too much rebound it will "hold" the front down too long. In this situation the front will still be "overloaded" as you begin applying throttle and the rear will lose grip (causing oversteer, or just spinning, depending on the position of the car in the turn.)

Now, that does not take into account rear rebound, or compression on any corner. Adjustments to these items will affect the timing.

If you optimize for street ride quality, the suspension has moved quite a bit. You now need to slow down the spring pushing the suspension back toward the ground. If you don’t the suspension will travel past ride height, going into extension, then back to compression, starting the whole deal over again and giving that "bouncy" feeling.

In the previously mentioned "race" vehicle, your rebound adjustment now becomes a means of slowing down the extension of the suspension. . .or like keeping the weight on one end or the other (the longer you have more weight on the front tires, the more grip they have further into the turn).

Timing Device:
You have to remember. . .in any application the shock is simply a timing device.
In a "street" vehicle it slows down the time it takes for the suspension to overcome a bump (thereby stopping the "bounce").
In a "race" vehicle it controls when and how the weight is transferred front-to-rear and side-to-side.

Basically, if you have a car that is primarily street driven with the occasional "track day" you are best off having a monotube, rebound adjustable shock. You don't lose much not having compression adjustment (as you'll just make ride quality worse); you want a monotube as the piston is almost twice the size of a twin tube, so it has better "control" (more surface area makes it more effective); and you can still have great ride quality and a fast car on the weekends.
If your vehicle is primarily a race car. . .who cares about ride quality. . .it's only about going fast (which is made possible by the increased ability to control when a car transfers weight.)

Dampers:
The factors that matter most to the ride & handling are:
1. Piston design - defines the valving curves possible
2. Piston seal & friction - self-explanatory
3. Bleed valving - controls the initial shock responsiveness control
4. Valving control – in most cases a stack of special shims that deflect & define the oil flow through the piston
5. Adjustability range - To tune or adjust for very different situations like track & street
6. Rebound & compression bleed over - how much does one adjustment affect the other valving
7. Body & overall shock design – affects how it manages the pressure, control & responsiveness
8. Stiction - pressure required to get the shock to initially respond
9. Internal rod/shaft pressure - affects initial shock responsiveness


Other things matter too, like ...
• Is it rebuildable?
• Is it revalvable?
• Parts availability?
• Tech support?
• Customer service?
• Warranty?
• Return/repair policy?
• And lastly initial purchase price and total cost of operation.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

If corner entry is tight or pushy:
* Soften compression in front shocks
* Soften rebound in rear shocks
* Stiffen compression in rear shocks

If corner entry is free or loose:
* Stiffen compression in front shocks
* Stiffen rebound in rear shocks
* Soften compression in rear shocks

If corner roll through zone is tight or pushy:
* Stiffen rebound in front shocks
* Soften rebound in rear shocks

If corner roll through zone is free or loose:
* Soften rebound in front shocks
* Stiffen rebound in rear shocks

If corner exit is tight or pushy:
* Stiffen rebound in front shocks
* Soften rebound in rear shocks
* Stiffen compression in rear shocks

If corner exit is free or loose:
* Stiffen rebound in rear shocks
* Soften compression in rear shocks
* Soften rebound in front shocks

SlickTrackGod

The front shock rebound is backwards in a high grip, high HP car. It is not a good adjustment toolk to be putting into this for educational purposes. Most would be confused trying to use this as an adjustment tool. far better for most to touch compression.

SlickTrackGod

I should also note that shocks can only fix so much. The novel sounds a bit overated to me. I don;t know if you copied that info from someone elsewhere on the internet but a lot of it is really honestly unescessary like the "timing device" part. A shock only controls the spring rate and the chassis weight. If balance is out of the shocks realm then adjustments need to be made to the chassis geometry. A shock should be merely looked at as a fine tuning tool like a Sway bar.

Important things I can add that are not in there is:
3! Most importantly is that you must understand shock compression rate goes hand in hand with spring rate. If you increase spring rate, you must decrease shock compression force to be lateral in ride comfort. Why would you make such changes? experimenting on different setups to find more speed on a race track. You may not require as much lateral stiffness because the car might only roll 2*, but on another course it may roll 3* (I could write a novel on this alone.) Just know that everything effects everything else, that is what makes everyones head hurt. There is no one for all situation or setup.

A shock simply slows the yaw rate of the vehicle going into a corner from entrance to steady state, and then for steady state to exit. If that time is smaller then more resistence is needed. Resistence is a conbination of Shocks, swaybars, spring rates, and geometry such as roll centers (positive and negative roll rates - roll as in roll , pitch, and yaw).

Simply put, A Koni yellow is about the best money can buy when dealing with factory suspeion mount points of suspenion arms to the chassis on a 3rd gen. The rest will just simply confuse the hell out of everyone.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Dean,
Agree with the most folks, point. Many just want to know what's best and bolt on. That's not bad or wrong.
I'm a curious guy. I want to know and spark discussion (3rd Gen specific).
Most of above was copied, digested and condensed from multiple sources.
Confusion is a challenge to me. I can beat it.
What I'm looking for is a somewhat custom approach to springs and shocks for our cars. Of course, what I have in mind, is not what someone else is thinking or communicating.
Dampers and springs do need to be a unit. And I'm just not satisfied with 'take brand X out of box and bolt on.' As you pointed out, that's where the vast majority are, different priorities, different approach, etc. And most importantly, the more I get into this, the more I can see that I will spend much time and money - I'm not a race team.
But I want to know, I want to be informed about the decisions I'm making.

I disagree with you that Koni yellow is about the best money can buy for a 3rd Gen. I do agree that they are great value per dollar, and will satisfy the needs of the vast majority, here. What spring rate are they valved to? And for those of us who lower our cars, the operating range does change. A better matched, custom valved option would be closer to my 'best.' Everyone has their own definition, and I'm not looking to mince words, but do appreciate good debate.
Once lowered, and a custom spring rate chosen, isn't it logical to find dampers to work within that range, and have them custom valved to produce max grip and firm comfort? Is this asking too much? Throw in brake changes and bias changes, wheels and tire sizes, RC changes, more hp, on and on. Why should I settle for an outdated (for today), out of the box solution that does not match all the other mods I've done?

Very much agree that for most (including myself), rebound adjustments will just get me in trouble. For that reason SA fits for me, or even non-adj.

What I'm looking to get is flat high speed compression (with some kind of bleed/blow off behavior - new tech?) while allowing greater low speed compression force combined with a softening of low speed rebound. Maybe even the ability to hold the front down in mid entry before acceleration occurs - slow release.
Am I asking too much?, or more likely, I'll be spending too much. Hasn't stopped me, yet.

SlickTrackGod

My best advice is to find a junked Audi S-line and steal everything from it. It is about the least expensive of the magnetic systems out there. That or a Lambo. You will not find this adjustment in analog form. It must read with wheel sensors and chassis attitude. A simple analog bleedoff will still allow for nose dive and chassis rake.

SlickTrackGod

Let me explain why a shock like a Koni yellow out-of-the-box is a great shock for pretty much all 3rd gen applications from stock to build road cars.

Simply putting Koni's on a stock height car with average tires on ir (like how lets say an IROC came from the factory on 16x8 Gatorbacks. The shock will slow the compression nose dive of the car, the rebound can be adjusted to control body roll and needs to be a little less then that of a performance spring because the springs have less release pressure when compressed. The car does not have as much lateral grip as a buildt car so the body will result in about 3* roll is the shock is adjusted properly and car is pressed to grip limit smoothly.

Now take that same shock and put it on a more aggressive car. You will drive more aggressive because the car allows you to. Your have it lowered, a higher spring rate, you want to limit travel to control limits of rubbing or grounding out. The compression valve that was good for the higher, softer factry rates is also great for the lowered geometry car with stiffer rates- what needs to change is the rebound, not necessarily the compression. The cars are still equal in weights and options within a few hundred pounds variance at most. No big deal between a 3400lb car and a 3600 lb car. Tire sidewall differences are more important of a change then the 200lbs difference in chassis weights- A point mostly overlooked by 99.9% of people. Tire sidewall has spring rate/ psi also has spring rate. Rebound needs to increase with perfomance. Too much increase for the car's chassis weight and overall maximum spring rate values? then the car will skip across the pavement when the tires do not come back to earth quick enough. Knoi has plenty low and high rebound adjustments. Compression is at worst 8/10s perfect for the worst 3rd gen application, mostly 9/10th or 10/10ths based on chassis geomtry and vehicle fixed points like arm lengths, wheelbase, trackwitdh, and ear tab mount widths. These factors do not change between 3rd gen cars no matter what other changes you make.

What makes the 3rd gen shine so well in handling? the exact points I just mentions in the end of the last paragraph. The 3rd gen "platform" is a combination that works.

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

Count me in with the 99.9% who didn't know that tire sidewalls would make more of a difference than 200 lbs weight difference. Especially when it comes to compression settings. I was under the idea that adjusting compression was only needed with large weight addition or subtraction. I never would have even considered that tire sidewall changes would make more of a drastic change in the car than weight.

I purposely bought the rebound-only adjustable Konis. I didn't buy the double adjustable (compression and rebound) mostly because compression seems like one of those adjustments where there are 99 ways to screw it up and only 1 good way to adjust it. Whereas rebound, you can play around with it in many ways and get good results.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Agreed, SA and sidewall changes, but not too much. I know a lot of people go with 18", that's ok. 17" is right for me. My car goes 120 mph all by itself , like a horse that likes to run on its own. A little sidewall can be a good thing!
I just saw that Ridetech will be at Road America for the Ultimate Street Car gig (Aug 30). They usually bring their scales and let you drive on - they add the figures into their database.

SlickTrackGod

Lets get into how compression works.

I will get into circle track settings for reason of ease in understanding how different adjustments work. Why? because circle track uses typically a non-symmetrical setup(meaning the left and right sides of the car can be, and usually are different in spring and shock rates.)Whereas a road race setup is the same left and right. This example will make a world of understanding for those of you interested in how shock tuning can aid in car balance.

Let us take the front of a race car going into a left hand corner. My NASCAR supertruck for instance is a 2700lb vehicle(with driver and almost full load of fuel) I run 325 lb springs up front on both sides. On shock valving, I used to run another truck I setup with 350 lb springs. Those springs I ran a 6-3 shock valving. the other truck I run a little softer spring rate so I increased the comp valve to a 4 ( a 6-4 shock valving. First is rebound, second is compression out of 1-12. 12 being firmest in resistance force)

Why? because when going into the corner under braking, the 350 car will not dive as much because the stiffer springs hold it up. Yet, if I increase the shock comp value the car would push going into the corner under braking forces, as well as not dive as much unless I add weight to the car's nose. Yes this is all about consistent weight leverage on the suspension. generally chassis weight never really changes at all unless a minor amount with modifications(here rules restrict and chassis weight change)

So based on the car with 350 rates and 4 comp shock valve- if I decrease the comp to 3 the car will travel into set quicker in nose dive but ultimately the same amount of suspension travel to "set" as it would with a 5 comp" only in a shorter amount of time (more unstable). The the harder on the brakes the more loose the rear wend will be with the 3comp. The 4 comp was fine, the 5 comp too much and the car pushed (all based on the same rear suspension package not ever changing)

Now going around the corner, the track has developed bumps that made for a change in grip and lap times over the years. Through testing we have found that dropping the new truck setup to 325 fronts helped the truck not be unstable over those bumps and retained a little better lateral mechanical grip. However, the car was diving too much too quickly with the same late hard braking patterns- and- was getting loose in the tail under braking corner entrance. Thus, we increased the front comp values to 5 with the 325 springs. It made for the same chassis balance without touching the rear setup. The higher comp controlled the softer front springs not to nose dive as quickly, yet the car still traveled a little more then it should and cantered the LR weight over onto the RF with a roll axis incline due to a little more front RC dipping (roll center migration in suspension travel). This lifted the inside rear and the car under braking would tend to get squirrely and still a little too much front end suspension travel for the driver's liking.

So what I did next is the key to understanding shock valving. I then upped ONLY the right front shock to a 6-5. A 6comp/5rebound. The right front was a 6-4 still. What does this do? think about doing a push up. Each of your arms are shocks. If one shock is firmer then the other then in quick movement the body weight will rest on the firmer shock momentarily as the body moves down to the floor. Once in set on the floor the arms no loner come into play with initial nose dive. Lets translate this to the car dynamics. The right front "held" the chasiss weight a little more then the left side did under braking compression nose dive. This allowed for more weight of the chassis moment to rest upon the outside front tire and not collapse as fast as the right side did. This slowed the rate of nose dive a tad more in time thus not allowing the RC to drop as quick or overall as much in the braking zoone. It also put more pressure on the RF and kept the car from going loose- this weigth adds crossweight momentarily so the car stayed more even under braking where as before it was going a little loose.

Now in steady state (SS), the shocks are only working over bumps etc. Otherwise the car is at rest in "set" and going through the corner coming into the "corner exit transition" During SS set the front spring rates are softer and can articulate over bumps. the overall front comp values combined with spring rate values were slightly less with the 325 and 6-4, 6-5 shocks then it was with the 350 springs and 6-3 combos. We learned this trough trial and error/ or R&D as most call it, lol.

Now all this time we run the same spec tire that our rules limit us. This never changes 'for the most part" just changes a little with a few psi differences trying to tailor a new set of biasply racing tires to size diameter specs in staggers -this gets complicated and pointless here other than to emphasis my tire sidewall rate changes stiffer with more air, and softer with less air over bumps. THUS changing a type or brand of tire to another brand can and generaly will change the ride charateristics of any car. A Pirelli PRosso for instance is a softer sidewall then a BFG KD of the same exact size and psi- by probably as much as 50lbs spring rate on my street sport truck for measure.

Now with compression settings, they are used in much softer portions in general as compared to stiffness values of rebound settings. Thus, they are not as critical in overall percentage of the dynamics they are addressing. they simply make a car ride more uncomfortable if the value starts getting too high combined with a high rate spring. Like jumping for instance to a 10 compression on a 900lb spring where a Koni Yellow is probably a 4, A bilstein a 3, am AGX a 2.5, and a monroe a 1. You do not want to jump up any more then maybe a 4.5. This is why I say a Koni yellow is a great all around shock. The Rebound will adjust about, but the comp value tends to mimic the average 3rd gen weight being around 3400 to 3600 lbs. This is about 25lbs difference in spring rate in a 3rd gen. My little V6 was a problem being 200lbs lighter. I could have used about a 3.5 but my car still cornered better then anything I have driven (as it should with my vast knowledge= and I have driven countless 3rd gens)

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Thanks Dean,
Timing plays a factor, too. Wouldn't you want to have the fronts compress slower than the rears? One has to scrub off speed before turning, anyway, will keep weight on front tires longer, and when you want the rears to have weight, you would want that more quickly than fronts?
Then all this has to be balanced with a quicker/softer 'bump' compression as opposed to weight xfer.

SlickTrackGod

Timing is based on driving style. Yes these changes play a part in timing, but so does the driver. This is why a good driver changes to the car, not the other way around. A very good driver is the one that will make a bad car work decent, but then know what to change so they can drive how they want to drive rather than the car dictating it. This is not always the case though on a bumpy track. You give up a little brake finesse in order to reduce overall nose dive due to pedal work when a track has bumps in corners.

OR- you do what I do and rotate the car early as you "toss" the car in a man handing way over the road imperfection and correct it afterwards. Most are scared to do stuff like this in traffic, I am not. I have a smooth driving style with the occasional "wing it in there and it will eventually grab" on some corners.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Ferrari guy at Road America had the opposite of dive - airborne @ 150mph:

GCrites80s

I thought the NASCAR trucks were 3400lbs like the Cup cars. Is that without ballast?

SlickTrackGod

We are driver development teams, not the big boys you see on TV. The Camping World Series are the big boy trucks equivilent to the NASCAR Cup cars in that top division.

The top trucks are full size mockups (ie- Silverado's, F150's Etc), We are mid size trucks (Ie Chev S10's, Ford Rangers. etc) What I crew chief in is a driver development series. The next big competitor you will see come out of our current series is Riley Herbst (Terrible Herbst gas stations and Casino- family in off-road racing fame). We are the premier "west coast" development seriesand are called Irwindale Supertrucks. We have drivers flying in about twice a month to race from all the surrounding states here on the west coast.


Here is the current truck I have been part of which this driver is really not going anywhere. Just a rich guy spending a lot of his own money trying to seek a mid life crissis. It is his last year. Ron has raced for 12 years and have never had a top 10 finish until I came about a year ago- that was my goal with him (knowing he was not really winning material), but a fun team to be part of and I am up there doing a little racing of my own in the exibition races while getting paid to run his team. (First pic- truck 58. I am the tall guy 3rd in the row during National Anthem lineup) Out trucks are 2700 lbs min WITH driver.

I also attached a photo of Riley Herbst.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

At the dyno, my car weighed 3730 with full tank & driver.
I'm guessing; #1950 front - LS2, alum rad, tub a-arms, alum hubs, 2pc rotors, FSL, and moved battery over to pass side: #1780 rear added sound material on floor, BMR trak pak, and the full tank, added 12 bolt, spare removed.
LF - 990
RF - 960
LR - 900
RR - 880
THIS IS JUST A GUESS.
The Optima Ultimate Street Car event will be at Road America 8/30. Ridetech will be there and they bring scales for people to drive up and get weighed. The add vehicles to their database and potential customers get their data, too. It will be interesting where I actually am.
Ridetech's are built by Fox in CA per Ridetech's specifications. They offer a rear coil overs for 3rd Gens with a 14" range, 11.34 collapsed, and 16.5 xtended. Looking at the SA with #225 and then have them custom valved :
* Linear valving curve on rebound for stable, secure corner entry.
* Adjustable aggressive rebound valving curve for maximum rear tire grip throughout the entire corner exit.
* Medium aggressive compression valving curve for improved mid-corner turning.
* Softer Digressive compression valving curve for optimum front-to-rear weight transfer & grip on corner exit.
They can make a strut for me. I'll talk more in person at track on that. Just how much that might cost and what kind of features, I don't know yet. I really like DSE's JRi struts with the hole inserts for camber adjustments. Don't know how hard that is to replicate.
A true road race valving tune would be too harsh for the street. If I can get a good highway curve, and a good HPDE curve, I'll be happy.

SlickTrackGod

Linear shock valving on compression is a dinosaur. You definitely want digressive.

Why? Because you want a low/medium static number that will not go high with fast piston speeds over a bump- especially under braking nose dive. You want that compression to bleed off very rapidly and try to remain medium constant so the tires do not skip or shock load the sidewalls.

Rebound valving adjusts differently because the forces are greater with sring recoil. A digressive rebound valve will actually work linear 'so-to-speak" when adjusted to low static settings. The higher the static setting the more digressive it becomes.

When we were talking earlier in this post about computer dampering, the systems are the closest thing to analog digressive valving. The computer system handles active drivers that bump hydraulic pressure to maintain split second ride height control based on calculations of all 4 wheels. You can not duplicate this with analog setups- hence why I stated to find an Audi s-line and gut the system off it and see if you can make it work. The car's weight, track width, and wheelbase are slightly different, but close enough for govt work to be effective over non active systems.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Sorry, my bullet points were too brief. I'm hoping to get linear valving characteristics at one point in the curve, and digressive valve characteristics in another part of the curve.

I will investigate the Audi s-line just to learn. Wondering how my LS2 ECM could potentially integrate with a stand alone damping module.

I have heard of a 3rd Gen guy in SCCA AS who has had 2 poles and 3 wins since May on DSE's JRi struts. Impressive! Those might be a dollar waste to run on the street, though. I'm intrigued by Ridetech, so I'm going to learn more.

SlickTrackGod

Viking got into the primitive game that a lot of the top end car manufacturers like Ferrari, Lambo, Audi, Bentley etc have been doing now for a few years. It is all about sensors and computer programing to get the chasiss attitude and feel correct so they can ride comfortable as well as compete on a race level.

I would NOT recommend buying anything like this quite yet. THis company needs to do a lot more R&D. They are working on one of the Ultimate street challange cars (an Oldsmobile) which is not much to say. That low speed baby autoX stuff hardly counts on performance when compared to throwing a car through switchbacks like Laguna Seca's corkscrew

SlickTrackGod

This is an interesting read. The mathematical equations are somewhat beyond me to initiate, yet I can read them and understand how and why he concluded the 1st option of the 3 choices in management. The computer world is fascinating, yet it is also very complex and unreliable to 99.9999% of the world in tuning and maintenance situations. Just like self driving cars- how many times have you had a computer hard-drive crash on you- it will happen, people will die. Analog is much safer because of predictability.

http://www.resnet.wm.edu/~jxshix/math302/wong.pdf

SlickTrackGod

Here is a comparison of how analog or "passive" systems work, semi-active systems, and full active hydraulic or pneumatic systems work.

https://enlightenments.files.wordpre...on-system.pptx

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, lot of people selling autoX valving tunes. I've had the pleasure of sitting/watching at the top of the corkscrew - '94 USGP. Even the view outward towards the valley is breathtaking. And Cannery Row lined with bikes as far as the eye can see.

It's going to be a challenge to keep a good ride (99% of use), and have a track setting for that 1%. I'm confident I can get there.
That PowerPoint was good.

3rdGenA/SRacer

I have the DSE Struts on my third Gen Great product but I have the valving changed for racing. I have a very High Zero number in the rebound. You can see a picture of them if you look in the brake thread.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Those are nice! But the seals are made for low-stiction racing (short street life). No problem for track only guys who maintenance often.
You must be a high travel/low roll kind of guy with some "special sauce."
Congrats on your success - tell us more.

3rdGenA/SRacer

Thanks. I made a huge number of changes based on working with Ron Sutton this winter. Fixed some horrible factory geometry issues. Way bigger front bar. Lots more rear spring. FYI I went from 175 rear springs to 500. No change in front springs. Car is so much more fun to drive and tires last so much longer. I am very excited about the Runoffs in Daytona this year. Looking for at least a podium. I basically picked up 1.5 seconds everywhere I went. Doesn't sound like much but that is a huge amount. We are now in the mix at every race. SO SO Happy with everything. Remember it is not about the parts that you bolt on the car it is about how the suspension works. Unless you really know what you are doing be very careful changing what the factory did.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Thanks Phil,
That's what I'm looking for. I'm street, but live near Elkhart Lake - 2 HPDE's per year. Going with Ridetech, but know I need a custom front bar. Can you give me any pointers on that?
Yes, I'm in contact with Ron as well.

3rdGenA/SRacer

I will post some pics of what I did. So far it has worked great.

RaverRacerX

hmm... wonder if one could take their data collection system and get it to feed a GM MRC suspension controller.... >_>

Most of the aftermarket controller setups out now are just variations on the same mechanical theme. the only real revolution will be when someone heads into the magnetorheological (magnetic hydraulic fluid) realm. or even a 'simple' hydraulic FRICS.

I have quite a few scientific papers of the GMLAN, MRC, and other semi-active suspension systems from researching for my own project. The biggest issue I've had is finding a way to electronically tune the dampers.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Well, I tried to get RideTech to build me some struts. They tried once before, then found that the lower bracket wasn't right. SEMA is coming up, so not right now. I think they will get around to it, eventually.
I did pull the trigger on the rear coil-overs. HQ series, 5.2" travel, 11.225"/16.425", and #250 spring. Through the end of the month, you get a $100 rebate if you send in your old pair, and can/did keep the #200 springs.
0* pre-load is a 2" drop. I put in 3/8" preload which put the rear at 27.25" by the common inaccurate measuring system. I'm using 6 clicks from soft for now with a 19mm rear bar. Rides excellent.
I inverted them (shock body up top) so the **** is easy to reach. I re-used the Spohn hardware. The brackets had to pried open a little and a longer grade 8 bolt used. It was a bolt-in affair.
This was a good decision! Great shock, good price.

morrow

Hey guys, I have bean working on a set off struts for the past few years, as well as changing some geometry . I built the shocks from scratch from the ground up . With the help of my buddy Kieth and guidance from dean....

morrow

My rear shocks vs a jri .. Mine is the silver one

SlickTrackGod

Funny that Teds linked this thread in another thread and I came into here to see what it was. 3 years later I have some Viking shocks (not the system talked about though, just some double adjustable hybrid coilovers on my S10 truck)...AND...I was just up at Nick Morrows place and must say his Camaro is frikin phenomenal. These old pics do not do that car justice.