KMA 367

Hello everyone

My name is Gina. I am new to your forum and i own a 1987 Pontiac Firebird 2.8 manual. This is also not my first firebird and i do all the work myself. This one i totally love and want to keep forever. Now the car i have is a daily driver that see´s many miles a year. Since the front suspension is all worn i want to replace the controlarm bushings, the balljoints and the idler arm. In the past i have only used Moog but there seems to be a problem with their quality since they are no longer US made. At least not most of them. The drag link i purchased at Rock Auto came from Turkey. So what should i buy????? Nos Moog???? Shipping is now expensive even the pars are cheap. And paying nearly 170$ incl. shipping and customs charges on two boxes of controlarm bushings hurt a bit. What is your guy´s and girl´s opinion on moog or is there something better. There is no longer many choices when it comes to the mentioned parts. And i want something that lasts.

Thanks for reading and greetings from germany
Gina

vinny R

Hello and welcome to this site.
Anytime you can find AC/Delco replacement parts those are the ones to use. They are made by someone else now and contracted through AC/Delco to meet factory specs. Rockauto usually sells these. RockAuto also gives you choices for your parts so take your time when ordering and you will see the cheap parts vs better ones, they categorize for you. IMHO these AC/Delco relacements are the best for our cars.
Moog Idler Arms don't work right. and there is a thread here about it. For the bushings, I have heard the Del-A- Lum bushings are best.
Keep that DD going girl...not many peeps still using these cars for that and especially overseas!

KMA 367

Thank you soooo much for your reply. I have lived 10 years in California and worked as mechanic girl or better women in a shop. I´ve had a few Firebirds in my life mostly V8s. It saddens me that almost nobody does anything with the 2.8s. I would,nt want one wit a automatic but a manual is quite quick and perfect for the city of berlin. I do drive a lot outside the city with really bad roads. I´ve read a bit about the del-alum bushings. But they are very hard right???? Poly is already to hard to drive over cobbelstone roads here. Most people took the Poly ones out for that very reason. I like a tight suspension since i drive like a mad girlbut I still like my fillings in my theeth to stay put.

So you say i can use the AC/Delco parts manufactured now without worry,s- the balljoints to???? I know about the thred about the idler arm but all idlerarms are beeing offered today are the same as far as i know. NOS is nowhere to be found.

Thanks for your help
Gina

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The thread about the Moog idler arms is WRONG. Somebody who should have known better simply got the wrong one in a mislabelled box or whatever, and it morphed into that thread on here about "Moog idler arms don't fit".

They DO. Somebody else went out and bought one from each of several mfrs, and laid them all out side by side, and guess what...

I would not in a million years pay the premium for the "AC Delco" label on a box. It's just a name on a box. They don't manufacture parts for old cars; they buy em from whomever, and put em in a box with their name on it. Basically the same as almost everyone else. The "manufacturing" part of that former GM division was spun off in the 90s (without including the AC Delco brand name, which GM retained) and is now headquartered in Ireland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aptiv Some AC Delco stuff is purchased from them but very little. And of course, not all that much of their products are made in the US, anyway. Regardless, GM isn't in the business of selling parts to help keep old cars on the road, any more than car dealers (franchised STORES) are interested in keeping cars on the road much past their warranty obligations. They're in the business of SELLING NEW CARS, and only dabble in old ones to the extent that they can make it more profitable than new ones. Which obviously means that their pricing is non-competitive.

Another familiar old name is Perfect Circle, a brand name of Dana Inc. An old reliable mfr of drivetrain parts especially, like gears and such, but also of other more "universal" things like chassis parts. One time I needed a drag link. I went to NAPA and found that they had 2 "levels": a "1-yr limited warranty" version, and a "lifetime guarantee" one. When I opened the boxes I found the EXACT SAME PART in both; made by Dana, complete with the Dana logo which is a sort of diamond shape https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Incorporated, and Dana's part # cast into it. Only difference was the price. I then went to AZ and had them look it up. They showed me either a Moog or a McQuay Norris box (they carry both of those brands), which when I opened it up, I found ... wait for it ... the EXACT SAME Dana part. I then went to a local chain parts store around here, and looked at a Perfect Circle one, which of course was IDENTICAL. I looked at a AC Delco one but found it was made in India or something so I didn't want that, esp since it cost more than any of the others except maybe the NAPA "lifetime" one.

I ended up buying the Dana part from whichever source was willing to sell it the cheeeepest. It's still on the car, working fine, all these years later. I keep it greased, to help it last. I would argue in fact that a grease gun is one of the most valuable and profitable tools you can buy: it's AMAZING how much longer chassis and drivetrain parts last when you keep em lubed.

I would note also, it's getting REAL HARD to find strictly US made auto parts for ANY US made brand of car. Or strictly made in Japan for Japanese cars, or made in Germany for German cars, or for ANY others like that. The whole auto industry is so globalized nowadays that parts for ANY car might be made almost ANYWHERE. And that's not necessarily a bad thing: kinda like tires. Remember, Europe, Japan, and Korea were FLATTENED TO RUBBLE in the various wars around the world in the mid 20th century; the US was not. Many other countries such as Russia and China were destroyed by their stupid Communist policies and corrupt kleptocracies that discouraged any form of innovation or independent thinking. Therefore EVERY heavy manufacturing plant - those capable of making anything remotely war-related, including auto parts - in those places has had to be built BRAND NEW in subsequent years. But the same old pre-war CRAP just kept in running in the US while the rest of the world modernized: it was too expensive, and not considered "necessary" (since the old stuff still worked), to keep our mfg base up to date. We just kept cranking out the same 1930s CRAP and smugly arrogantly ignoring all that was going on around us and congratulating ourselves on our perceived "US made" "quality". Then the 70s hit and the auto industry in the US was overwhelmed by foreign mfrs that totally outclassed US cars in every way but most especially reliability and efficiency. By the time American industry in general figured out what it had allowed to happen to itself it was too late. We still haven't caught back up from the rot that set into our industrial sector in the 50s and 60s. So nowadays, it's entirely possible that parts made somewhere else might be FAR BETTER than the equivalent made here - if one even IS made here. You need to LOOK AT THE PARTS THEMSELVES to see which are the better ones.

Pay attention to what's in the box, not the brand name.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

BTW, for further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal-Mogul the owner of Moog

Notice anything about how many times the word "bankruptcy" appears in the histories of ALL these companies?

KMA 367

Dear Sofaking

You are perfectly right with what you said. I was born in germany but when it comes to auto parts i know more about american parts than germans. I do know all of the old american brands. I have used Dana parts as well. There used to be a lot of good parts around back in the day. When i fixed american cars for myself or other american customer´s i only used US made parts with very few exeptions. I always tried to deliver the best job possible. Parts people hated me for questioning everything. That all was back in the 2000s. The problem i have now is that i live in germany-a country i don´t like. No longer i can go anywhere to open up any boxes to see what is inside.
So i don´t know what to buy and procrestinate. And yes -the world has become global and that is not a good thing by any means!!!!! I know about Moog not beeing manufactured in the US any longer and some of the problems. But back in the day when Moog was US made i never once had a problem.

Thanks for your input
Gina

KMA 367

BTW my home will always be the US and it saddens me a lot whats been going on right now there. I used to love Sears and Craftsman tools. I also liked shopping at macys. So many good memories. It´s not better in germany right now eighter. Gas and food is at an all time high.

Gina

KMA 367

And sorry- I misspelled your accountname!

Gina

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

I haven't lived in Germany but I've travelled there. My daughter lives in a country right nearby nowadays.

If you don't mind me asking, what don't you like about Germany?

KMA 367

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84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

Proforged is pretty dam good. I think they specifically make their parts in Taiwan. There is a post about them on the forum.

KMA 367

Thanks 84 1LE. I´ve seen them around and people seem to like them. Ill look in to that. Have you had any experiance with their parts???

Thanks for the idea
Gina

KMA 367

Btw Nice Camaro-one of my friends has a 1991 RS

Gina

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

Yes, All the steering components on my 89 are proforged parts, ball joints too. No issues at all.
Thanks for the complements.

KMA 367

Thanks for letting me know. Yea its a real nice convertible you have. We have to keep these nice cars on the road !

Gina

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

Thanks, i drive it most everyday to work, but id rather not for fear of getting in an accident.

DaveyDug

iTrader: (3)

I have Proforged ball joints, center link, tie rods and adjusters on my 89 IROC. I've been very happy with them.

KMA 367

Hello 84 1LE.

Sorry for the late reply. I totally understand you with regards to not wanting to get in a accident. I live in the City of Berlin and i always worry that someone destroys it. Parking spaces are tight here and there are some morons that hate car´s because of the climate change. It´s like George Carlin once said " when you´re born you get a ticket to the freak show. When you´re born in America, you get a front row seat" Now that exacly nail´s it in regards to Germany.

I wish you a accident free ride

Gina

KMA 367

Hello Davey Dug

Thanks for your input That seconds what 84 1LE said. Good to know.

Thanks Gina