How hard would it be for me to install and weld in SFC's in my Z-28 using a 220 volt arc welder? Is it possible? If i had to i could ask and beg.

 

I dont think it would be a wise idea, unless your very good with it.

I had my dad try and weld up a transmission brace with an arc and he was cursing the entire time. Things just werent working out for him, probably because hes not used to that thin of metal.
Either way, i'd probably beg someone else to do it before i got into it. I had no choice, it was the only way my car was moving.

He's also been a millwright for 33 years now, so hes a fairly decent welder.

Good luck

 

try and find some one that knows how to mig weld really good and gets good penatration becuz that really all u would need is the sfc welded on really good by someone that knows what there doing. and with arc welding, i havent seen it used much on cars becuz it burns thru the metal way too easly. so find a shop or a good friend that knows how to mig weld good. thats all i could say right now.

 

Not to mention they're big, sloppy, nasty welds compared to a MIG.

 

These processes are both arc welding. Stick welding (SMAW) does not result in big, sloppy nasty welds if you know what you are doing. It does require a lot more skill than MIG welding (GMAW) especially overhead welding under a car. The thin material is also more difficult with stick than with mig. I agree I would find someone with some experience and they will MIG weld the sfc's.

 

I agree, but I meant "compared to MIG welding". And MIG welding has big, nasty, sloppy welds compared to TIG welding. All three can look damn good when you know what you're doing.

 

Moving this, doesn't belong on appearance and detailing board!
BTW, Mig and Tig welding are almost the same except with Tig you use an extra stick. Mig is the easier of the 2 but all are hard to master. Practice on scrap before you touch your car.
Also, Mig is usually used with normal rusty steel and Tig is more for stainless and aluminum. It's just something I've noticed over the years. Stick welding is a PITA but it's almost always the strongest welds if you're good.

 

I work for excavators and we have a arc welder and they guy who does the welding and we use it to weld reinforments on the machines and the buckets of the machines....They guy was a metal fabrictor and i have never seen one of his weld break....the weld is just barly able to handel the thick steel we use.....takes all day to fully reinforce the buckets so they last for more then a year.....usally they can last up to 3 but we go though teeth like nothing here.

 

The advantages of MIG welding over conventional stick electrode arc welding are so numerous that manufacturers now recommend it almost exclusively. MIG welding is recommended by all OEMs, not only for HSS (high tensile strength steel) and unibody repair, but for all structural collision repair. This recommendation extends also to independent collision repair shops.
MIG welding is easier to learn than arc or gas welding. The typical welder can learn to use MIG welding equipment with proper training. More over, experience shows that even an average MIG welder can produce higher quality welds faster and more consistently than a highly skilled welder using older stick electrode welds.
If you plan on welding in your sub-frame connectors, get yourself a MIG welder and practice on some scrap metal. Try and get some pieces that are the same thickness as the sub-frame connectors you will be welding, that way you can make your adjustments before doing the actual welds. Try this and see if you still feel confident enough to weld them on yourself. They don't have to be the best looking welds but they must be functional.

Mark

 

grafx i don't know who did your studys or where you got your information from but i'll say this (i'm CWI 93080921) that GMAW (mig) is by far the easiest to make low quality welds with while having the appearance of high quality welds. the biggest reason it makes acceptable welds in respect to auto repair and modification is the the metal is thin and penetration is often near or at 100%. it takes very little talent to make a "good" weld on a car body.
as for the SFCs if i were welding then with an AC SMAW (stick) machine i'd use 3/32" E6011 and if i had burn thru problems i'd switch to E6013 in 3/32".

 

Ede, if you had to use Mig, what temp would you use? I don't know but if the temp is too low it won't burn through the metal but it won't be a strong weld yes/no?
I only have access to a Mig welder and I'm relearning (since highschool).
Thanks

 

As ede stated it is easy to make terrible welds with a MIG setup. This is because especially when welding out of position and on thin material its easiest to use short circuit transfer mode. The filler material doesn't melt until it contacts the base metal or the weld puddle. This is a low heat input process, great for minimizing distortion and burn through. Often, only the filler wire melts and sticks to the base material (car frame, sfc) and result is low or zero penetration. However the weld looks great visually. This almost never occurs with TIG (GTAW) or stick (SMAW) processes, on thin gauge material.

 

everyone has their own preferances to settings and travel speed. set it where you like, and since i don't know what diameter wire you're going to use i'd be useless for me to guess. pratice on a piece of scrap and set it where it feels good and doesn't burn thru. from other welders i've worked with it appears i run GMAW (mig) a little colder than some but i tend to run SMAW (stick) hotter.

 

I guess I've been misinformed. I've only done a little welding and it's all been with MIG. I just ordered a pair of Sub-frame connectors and planned on installing them myself with a MIG welder. Is this a mistake. Should I take it to someone and have them install it? I figured if I took it to someone else that they would MIG weld it in. What is the prefered method of welding them on?

 

mig would be my first choice. maybe i know too much about the subject, since i've welded since i was 16 and that was a very long time ago, i look too deeply into the subject. the thing with mig is there is only penetration where the arc is (short circuit transfer mode) it doesn't take long to have a hot puddle of weld metal and if the arc is in the weld it isn't penetrating into the base metal. in other words keep the arc or wire at the front edge of the weld. another thing to keep in mind is that you push the weld metal and never drag it. also mig or more correctly GMAW requires the metal to be clean of dirt and paint, bright and shinny would be a good way of saying it. i welded my SFCs in, never cleaned anything and i'm sure the metal would tear before you got them off ,because the metal is so thin the weld gets greaat penatration. if you're comfortable welding i wouldn't be afraid to weld the SFCs in.

 

Does flux-core vs gas shielding make a difference when welding thin gauge metal (as in putting on SFCs)?

I'm going to be getting a MIG setup soon and was wondering if I should just buy the gas kit with it since SFCs are the first thing I'd use it on.

 

I tried it. Here's what you do. Step one: Drive the car over to a friends house that has a stick welder. In your case you can skip step one. Step two: Lift the car in the air, then support all 4 wheels with ramps or front 2 wheels with ramps and rear with jack stands. Make sure the car is sitting level with all 4 wheels loaded. Step three: If the SFC's are powder painted grind a little off the edge. Step four: Begin welding. Step five: You'll soon discover that you are just burning nice holes through the unibody and creating ugly glops of weld. Step six: Give up in frustration after a few fruitless hours. Step seven: Bolt the other end of the SFC in place. Step eight: Lower the car, thank your friend for the attempt and drive it to the shop to have it MIG welded in place. Of course this method required listening to them complain about the lousy stick weld install attempt. The best shop for this would have a drive-on style lift and MIG welder. IMO You can save time and frustration by skipping steps one through seven, but you wanted to try it for yourself. Good luck, Lon

 

if i were looking to buy a wire feed welder i'd buy one with a gas kit then you could run solid wire (mig), flx core, or flux core with gas (not likely you'll ever do it but you never know). also with argon and aluminum wire you can weld aluminum, i'd buy c25 (argon co2 mix). for every thing i do GMAW or mig works best. if i were doing a lot of welding on dirty or less than idealy clean metal flux core might be better. flux core may also win a portability contest and is better to use i nthe wind where gas mey be blown away.

 

hey ede what type of welding is stick welding like lonsal was describing

 

SMAW (aka stick welding).
http://www.weldingengineer.com/1stick.htm

 

with stick welding eletrode selection is very important, you can do a good job with one rod and then really mess things up with another. best to look i na filler metal catalog for a in depth explanation of the differant rods and what they're good for.

 

Well I guess I will speak up on this one. Putting in SFC's isn't hard, but it is time consuming and takes patience and a little common sence. I installed a set on my 91 GTA and my neighbors 2000 SS. We used a Craftsmen mig welder with Argon CO2 mixed gas. Tried the flux core on some sheet metal we had laying around. All I have to say to that is good luck. We too k measurements before we started too make sure we did not distort the frame when we were done. This was probably not necessary, because after we were done there was absolutely no sign of the suspension points changing with in relation to each other and I put a lot of heat into the frame welds. I suggest using a mig especially if you are not using a lift. Why? Plain and simple it is the most forgiving. Mig will let you get away with less than Ideal conditions such as having thick metal subframe conectors welded to thin sheet metal. Here is the key. Preparation. Thouroughly clean all welding surfaces to bare metal, and I mean clean. Nothing is more frustrating than weld snaping and poping in your face while you buger up the bottom of your car. Next buy some scrap that is similar to the material you are going to weld. Use this to set you welder, because experimenting on your car can cause heart ache. I would reccomend smaller diameter wire because it will be less likely to burn holes in the sheet metal if you make a mistake. Plan your attack. If you can't see the spot your welding and you can't stedy your hand to get to it forget it. Chances are you will end up just bugering up your car it is better to have a few strong welds than ann assortment of bugered up welds. Prepare well, use a mig, keep the grinder handy, and don't get discouraged. As long as you get them in there without messing up any structural members you are adding strength, The only bad install would be if they fell out or you burned up something that wasn't meant to be burned. sorry for the long post hope this helps