Welcome to the next installment of the

Topic of the Week

to run from 4/19/02 to 4/26/02

The subject for the week is all about slimming down the car for performance gains.

The revisited TOTW wasn't doing much so I thought we'd try this.

suggested topics of discussion:
- Dynabatt lightweight battery
- AC removal
- Drag racing rims and tires
- smog removal
- K-member replacement
- fiberglass hoods
- steel bumper removal
- lightwieght replacement parts: heads, water pumps, driveshafts, starters.....

 

Dynabatt:

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/mustangw...0dynabatt.html



"Lighten up your ____ Remove the 40 lb battery and replace it with Performance Distributors 13.5 lb Dyna-Batt. The Dyna-Batt is built with extremely low internal resistance which leads to faster, more consistant starting. The Dyna-Batt is completely dry cell and can withstand the rigors of high performance and racing enviornments. It is built with corrosion resistant terminals and is truly maintenance free. The Dyna Batt has an excellent storage life and recharges very quickly. Works great with the *** 130 Amp Alternator!"

As a comparison, optimas weigh 39 to 46 lbs.!

 

if you can get rid of it, the smog pump

I might be getting a second car (90 Iroc 350, 3.73) if I do, I'll pull all the AC and the smog stuff, add headers...that would cut weight pretty good

BTW I have some weighs in my sig, I forgot that the stock air cleaner weighs about 7 lbs

 

ive lost track of how many things Ive removed but you can realistically get a thirdgen near 3000 lbs pretty easily
heres what I have done

I first weighed the car with it being basically stock just with no spare tire, jack, and inflation can which weighed 47 lbs btw, and headers and exhaust which were quite lighter than the manifolds, the track scale said around 3250 lbs, this was also with crosslace wheels which I weighed to be 45 lbs lighter alltogether than the stock vane style wheels
since then i removed the rear seats and seatbelts which was around 32 lbs
removed the smog pump and accessories ~5 -7 pounds
removed the front sway bar, like 15 lbs, and way more weight transfer.
Relocated the battery to the rear spare tire well.. not really a weight loss but moved like 45 pounds to the rear and off the front
removed the front crash beam and plastic shock absorbant stuff.. about 30 lbs.
Got rid of the hood matting, probably 5-10 lbs
no egr vave, no evap cannister
swapped to a t5 manual transmission, 100 lbs lighter than the 700r4
Got rid of alot of sound deadening material under the dash and behind plastic panels probably 15 lbs in total, no cruise control, no windshield washer tank, no heater


i think a lift off fiberglass hood can shave another 60 off the front end, the AC im going to ditch soon and that is another 60 lbs, you can always go to manual steeringfrom an s10 and ive been told thats worth 30 pounds

lets not ignore taking stiction out of the suspension travel.. particularly the front. A looser suspension can act like you dropped weight off the car.. spherical control arm bearings along with looser shocks like 90/10s and taller springs in the front will make an enormous difference in front end rise

Ive also seen a coil over kit in the 500 dollar range that supposedly takes 40 lbs off the front end as well but thats not really worth it

 

i plan on getting a fiberglass 2.25" cowl hood in a month or so. just thought i would throw that in there

 

This is all well and good, but for pete's sake, please keep the parts you are taking off the car. I'm no spring chicken, and can't tell you how many hacked up cars I've come across. I just got rid of a 79 WS6 TA that was highly optioned that someone desided to take racing, and I'll tell you, it sucks driving around PA with no heater. It would have been a good car to restore, but I didn't want to spend years finding the missing parts, not to mention spend a small fortune. It's funny how our cars purpose changes. You just may regret getting rid of the parts. Just an observation and my worthless $0.02

 

Few other things:
Aluminum or composite driveshaft, lightweight flywheel.

These two will not only reduce static weight but more importantly rotational mass, making acceleration much quicker.

By the way what is the average standard weight of a 92 RS w/ a 700R4? 3400lb?

 

whats the deal with removing the front impacts and absorber bars?i got into an accident with my car a few months back and i know i need a new absorber,and possibly a new impact bar.but that would save me some $$$ if i could just get rid of both of them and not have to worry about replacing them when i redo my front end.does eerything just bolt right up without those 2 pieces in there?any help would be appreciated.thanks!

 

if you don't wana totaly remove them, the oringinal thridgens has aluminum bumpers.

 

some early thirdgens have them you mean

you can remove it no problem on a trans am if you dont mind losing the fog lights even easier on a formula

on a camaro, i think the turn signals and if you have foglights are mounted to the bumper.. you can always find another way to mount them. I just took mine off, no problem.

Its definately not the best thing for cornering as i took out alot of support for the front framerails but I plan on having a couple of pieces of square steel tubing welded to where the bumper was which should still be way lighter should i ever get off this drag racing kick

and please, who cares about removing crap from your car.. i think its highly loserly to hang on to the SAME car for another 20 years that 98% of the population gives a rats *** about, and the other 2% knows what it is yet does not think it is worth a damn mainly because its a base model- with the hopes that it will be worth something. Even if you did hang onto a car that long would you just say "Woohoo, 20 years are up lemme put this on the market and see what I get"

If you want to invest get into stocks and bonds, cars are for fun

 

cars are for fun

 

I had my 84 Firebird down to 3120 with 1/2 tank of gas, spare, and emergency tool kit.

I had taken the dash out to remove unecessary wiring. Removed the headliner, all the plastic interior bits other then the dash, stock seats, center console, I had removed all the carpeting other then by the driver and passengers feet, and had taken that out to remove the sound deadening behind it had a harwood glass cowl induction hood, Art morrison coil over front spring conversion. AL heads, TES headers, no cat, no bumper reinforcements, Basset steel wheels, no ac, non A/C heater box out of an S10.

 

Grumpy: Do you have any before and after weight measurements? Do you know roughly how much you saved with each modification? Don't bother with the little, obvious stuff, but if something helped you shave a lot of pounds off, let us know.
Any before and after ET's? Thanks.

 

Yall are crazy How many of you who posted actually race your cars in a series or something? I'm not talking about yall weekend warriors, even though there's nothing wrong with that. It just seems to me that this whole weight reduction thing is getting a little carried away, unless of course it is a pure race car. I would remove my brakes before I removed my A/C here in GA.

I'm actually carrying extra weight...tool box, socket wrench set, 1 bottle of radiator fluid, fix-a-flat, and 1 quart of oil, and jumper cables. ......just being prepared I guess

 

I try to race every single night whenever I go home (florida) and see my baby (the car)

nothing official or even on an NHRA track though

 

I think it makes perfect sence to to lighten up a car. Better gas milage, especially from 3600lbs to 3100lbs, less weight on all tires = hopefully less wear and tear, less things will break with the less there is to break. I can think of a lot of reasons why you would want to keep the car light. Heck, if you want to be "prepared" and carry a toolbox along with all that other jazz, just get a truck. I have a cell phone with no service (only 911 calls) and a AAA card. I don't need anything else and if my leatherman can't fix it I would just have it towed somewhere.
As for the a/c, yeah, I wouldn't junk it unless you live in a mild climate like NJ/Penn and New England. If the a/c doesn't work then just take it out. I like having my windows down only because when I turn my a/c on I always have a fear of overheating my engine and sucking up too much gas , I'm sure I'm the only one with this "fobia" but I also hate thinking about how a standard cam works...metal to metal, ah yeah, that's great. Can you tell I'm going to school for mechanical engineering

 

I have a little 52 piece craftsman set I keep in my car. I think its a great thing to carry. I have used it to rewire me fan to stay on all the time in an emergency when I was severly overheating due to coolant temp sensor failure, I changed the starter with it, taken out batteries more times than I can count. Certainly a lot easier and quicker than waiting an hour or so for AAA . Also carry a flashlight, jumper cables. If you are that desperate for weight reduction and 10 lbs makes that much of a difference, why not make swiss cheese out of your frame . I know they did that for one car, though I can't recall which. Though I do agree with JPrevost about a metal on metal cam.
Words from a fellow Mechanical Engineering student
Senior at U of Mich.

Chris

 

10 lbs is exactly that, what is 10 bags of ten lbs of "stuff" yeah...it's 100lbs. Weight is weight, you can't just say 10 lbs isn't going to make a difference unless you're talking about NOTHING else but the 10 lbs. Kind of hard to explain that one, not enough time to type a nice long explination but the weight is weight sums it all up. More weight is bad, less is good. About the AAA thing, yeah, it gets pretty bad but the last (first) time I had to use it was when I was over a year ago (keep in mind I'm from NJ or Columbus ohio, popular with lots of people). I got a blow out on my drivers side rear, tread was completely off the rim and wedged into the fender, I was driving on nothing more than a thin ring of rummer...I was lucky I didn't have rim damage (left lane and nasty shoulder conditions). Can you tell me how a tool chest would help in this situation? Oh yeah, and the last time I used the AAA card was over winter break when my friend broke his half-shafts (Taurus SHO) at the track and needed a tow 88 miles, good thing I had the 100 mile limit. Again, how would anybody fix that? Face it, you can't!
As far as the jumper cables....lol....everybody with a truck has em so why do I need em. If I had a bad battery then I'd ask somebody to jump my car, if they didn't have cables I'd ask another person. It's not like we're at the North pole...just ask a guy with a TRUCK if he could give you a jump. Most likely you're in a parking lot and if you're the only one in the lot then you ain't getting a jump anytime soon so take the cables and jump rope till the AAA truck rolls in . hehe, man, I'm beating this into the ground. I guess I just can't justify a lot of stuff in my car considering the luck I've had....I guess the preventive maintenance is working for me.
Oh yeah, and wouldn't a roller cam also be metal on metal , just pulling your chain a little more, all in good fun.
I say junk the weight and that's why TBI rocks!!! It's lighter than a stock TPI setup .

 

I'm not saying a little tool set is a panacea, but it has bailed me out more than once.
I'm not saying weight is a good thing, obviously it isn't. But I'm just saying it can get a bit ridiculus to me for a daily driver to dump certain componets. I myself have removed the AIR pump, cat and have replaced iron and steel parts with aluminum. And I'm not saying AAA is a bad thing, I have it and used it myself. And I'm not talking a tool chest, just a small ratchet set, pliers, screwdriver extension hex keys.
As far as jumpercables, Last month when my batt was going in my Marquis(which weighs over 6000 lbs ) I had to get a few jumps and No one I got a jump from had cables. Damn fuel pump wouldn't turn off. OK his is getting long as well. I don't like weight, but I like to keep the dieting reasonable(well reasonable for me).
Oh and actually in each case there wouldn't be a direct metal to metal connection due to the viscosity of the oil film on the cam and lifter

Chris

 

Anybody switch from power windows to crank-style? I was wondering how hard this is and how rare are the parts?

As for the big debate that's going on, it all just depends on what you use the car for. I drive a lot of long distance miles, so I like to be comfortable (AC, carpet, etc.), but I like to go fast so I don't mind removing some things, either. To each his own.

 

ive removed all my emmissions, AC (even tho its pretty hot in the summer here), everything i could without messing the car up includig the jack, and spare only tools in the car is a 7/16 socket rachet and open end wrech for tightening headers

 

Ive removed my AC and it is probably one of the best mods i have done, it cleared up so much room in the engine bay and the cars weight lose is a plus to me. I also removed my windshield washer tank (had a hole in it anyways) and did an Heater control valve delete to futher clean up the cluttered engine bay. Next weight reducer is the JG1 alunimum driveshaft i have sitting in my apartment. I want to get rid of all my spare tire stuff, but i would be kinda scared driving 250 miles from college to home without it.

 

dan i looked into that and to me it wasnt quite worth the trouble because the weight difference is in the single digits for some reason 4 lbs sticks out in my head but not positive. There was an option list on the net showing the weight certain options added.. i think its on www.fbody.org or something. I remember t tops added 35 pounds! and that the difference between an ac delete car and one with ac was like 62 pounds or something like that.. interesting reading

 

The whole set up weighs 30#... The compressor is 10#.
but every little bit helps, see below...

The best weight reducer I have found so far are front runners or skinnnies (drag racing only)
The stock P245 50R16 wheel and tire weighs 48#, the skinnies I put on weigh 27.5# each. That's a savings of 41#

Add that to the weight saved from removing the A/C system and that's a 71# reduction.

 

Um - Pablo - when was the last time you handled the covering under your hood? I took mine off a week ago and it certainly isn't 5-10lbs - and i didn't take it off for weight, i did it b/c it was torn. I think you guys are kinda bsin' this all...

TP

 

well that was a guesstimate as most could probably tell i didnt actually weigh some of the stuff i took off and its been a LONG time since i did alot of it anyways. The hood matting certainly isnt feathery id like to see someone weigh it.. 10 lbs is probably an overestimation but it is definately a few pounds. Thanks frmula for ac system weight.. i was going off of what I had seen on that weight chart for different options and whatnot and that stuck out in my head

 

Btw theres no need for sarcasm. Cant a post just be happy and drama-less from start to finish?

 

If I had a chance to gut a car I'd take everything out and then install only what I NEEDed. Stuff like wheels, fly wheel/flex plate, heads, intake, driveshaft, hood, racing seats, racing steering wheel and exhaust can save a LOT of weight and that isn't detracting from any of the systems.
Then you can ditch the a/c (compressor, lines, box, condensor, can, and more wire), move battery to back, ditch the smog/air injection, rip out the heater core piping and run old school straight from engine to heater core, ditch 2 useless headlights (camaro), ditch front sway and rear if you've got good springs/shocks, ditch the power steering for a manual box from an s10 or first gen f-body, ditch the power brakes (just make sure to increase leverage on pedal), of course ditch EGR (not much weight but it adds up), ditch the hood liner and weather stripping, aftermarket aluminum radiator, alum water pump or maybe even an electric pump, ditch the auto's for standard tranny, and most important...do all this to a hardtop !
You can save mad weight, still have a stereo and other creature comforts so you don't feel like your driving a tractor!!!
I actually added weight to my car when I did the stereo. Not only do I have heavier components, I installed a LOT of sound deadening, 90^2 feet worth of tar, lol. I've got larger sway bars, STB, boxed stock rear stuff, SFCs, global west's beefy version of the wonderbar....only weight reduction is the alum pump/intake, open element, and centerline 3 piece wheels! At least I'm not a t-top....that would suck.



Not when your name is either JPrevost or Pablo!

 

hey pablo - my apologies for any assaninity in my post - i was in school, thus, in a bad mood. lol.

TP

 

assaninity

 

haha - sry Tas - I suppose I should let you guys know that i coin words all time.

Assaninity = the state and/or quality of being assinine. Acting as an @$$ would. lol


TP

 

I like weight reduction too...but...I'd leave in the bumper supports and other impact absorbing materials. My RS was totaled when my wife hit a PT crusier at 35mph. Wife was ok, but the RS was messed up pretty bad, the PT was totaled. I'm glad the car had all the bumper supports etc, you never know when something may happen so don't compromise safety doing weight reduction.

LOL!

Indeed, however where I live, the Honda owners never have jump cabels and always come asking the Camaro owners for the jump starts...

 

ok, I thought it was just a really bad spelling of insanity. It reminded me of one time my friend was trying to remember a word and said it started with an "a". It was entrepreneur

 

That's only MORE reason not to have jumper cables! Think about it...
Seriously, I can't remember the last time I needed cables. It's always been somebody else that needed em, never me. 2 summers ago I did need them when I left my lights on. I still had to find somebody to jump my car and it just so happened they had some, wow, go figure .
If you don't use it, ditch it. If you use it, make it lighter. If you need heavy duty, tuff, go buy a truck. If you want it and don't have it, good, there is a sublime reason for it!

 

how about this: my 82 350/th350 T/A- in which is supposed to be the lightest year- at around 3080lbs !

the entire interior is all removed except door panels and dash, will put driver side bucket in so can drive it, no jack or spare tire stuff, aluminum wheels, low profile tires, no a/c or AIR or cat converter or cruise stuff,
has aluminum intake, looking for aluminum waterpump and radiator and fan to use on it,
oh and has no sterio system

when i get drivetrain in and driveable ill weigh it with no interior or a/c and with aluminum intake on it oh and with dashpad and sterio system removed and not alot of exhaust system too

how much weight do you guys think i have removed so far and what doyou think it will weigh now ?

a guy i know with an 80s grand prix with a pont 455 and auto trans in it says it weighs 2500lbs

i cant believe that one..,. says that the old 68-72 novas were 5,000lbs

hmm....

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JPrevost
[B]! At least I'm not a t-top....that would suck.







HEY I thought t tops were lighter than hard top when we got the tops off.

 

What kind of weight difference is there between an aluminum block engine (with aluminum heads) and an iron block with iron heads?

Just curious,

jason g

 

Yeah, I'm wondering about the aluminum versus iron block too. Or just aluminum heads, intake and water pump against iron stock ones.

Other than that, it would be interesting to see what kind of weight reduction one would get with fiberglass doors, lexan side windows, rear hatch in lexan, fiberglass fenders and hood, and preferably swapping out all cast iron stuff with aluminum constructed parts.

What about aluminum housed rear ends? or drive shaft? Anyone know what the availiable alu driveshaft would gain?

 

Did anyone read the lastest artilce in super cheavy where they removed the power steering unit on a 82 camaro in place of a manual unit. I geuss it is easier to turn than stock, wieghs 25 pounds less, and gives you serious under hood clearance.

 

it's one thing if your car is used strictly for weekends, but for a daily driver, i think it's crazy to gut a car just trying to save a few pounds.

i want my ac and my power windows. i want a functioning front bumper. i want a heater that works and a back seat and some sound deadening so the squeaks and rattles don't drive me crazy.

theoretically, 100lbs of weight reduction is worth a tenth of a second in the 1/4 mile. you can realistically only get 200lbs or so out of your car without going to seriously extreme lengths. is two tenths of a second worth destroying the functionality of the car? the money you'd spend on an aluminum driveshaft, fiberglass hood superlight battery, etc, could just as easily be spent on developing more horsepower, which would yield the same time improvement and leave the car more functional.

i once had a gutted 73 gremlin that i used as a second car. i went so far as to take the window mechanism out and use seatbelts to operate the windows. the car was great fun to drive .... occasionally, but would have made me miserable if it'd been my daily transportation.

besides, most of our cars are in the 15s, 14s and 13s. nothing looks more ridiculous at the track than to see someone with a gutted car run that slow. especially when stock mustangs and 4th gen camaros run faster.

just my opinion.

 

my good friend in BC went about it like this...

i will be doing this front and rear on my car.

 

Iron blocks weigh around 195-210lbs
Aluminum blocks weigh 90-115lbs(lightest being those which are CNC'd).

I believe aluminum heads are good for another savings of 40lbs over iron.

 

to shed some weight off my car i took out the smog and ac changed the entire exhaust went with an aluminum driveshaft and crank pulley took off the sway bars and that was about it im guessing that was around 200lbs not to bad for only 200$ and .2 seconds off the 1/4

 

How about driver weight loss

 

yeah! and let your girlfriend/boyfriend/who-ever-is-riding-with-you walking. This helps also them to lose some weight!

 

Actually I got my girl to get on a diet.. lol

 

but since shes not in the car when your racing, YOU'RE the one that needs to diet...

 

Yeah, it always seems alot quicker when I'm on my own..
Me myself don't have alot of weight to loose, wouldn't be enough left of me to wrench the car then..

But one could always try to just drive in a swimming shorts or something.. the smaller the better..lol.. and be sure to keep those nails short..

 

My friend has a second gen camaro and he's gutted a few things. What is bad is when your friends come over and say "Why the heck did you take the A/C out? It worked for crying out loud! I wish you would have at least given me the part instead of trashing it!"

Stuff like that kinda bothers me. He nevers races it, and it sits around most of the time. I doubt he gained much by taking it out.

What do people say when they want a ride in your car until they see they interior is ripped out? Its fancy on the outside, but the interior is basically crap

 

exactly