Just curious. and give me a quick list of mods thanks

 

465 HP
472 #/ft Torque

At the flywheel

Mods...

Built a 350

Had the 350 dynoed

Smiled

Installed 350 in car

Sold 305 on ebay for 400 bucks...

 

Mods in the sig....

First dyno pull and track run coming March 29th....

So far hung side by side with a 14 sec flat 95 GT up to about a hundred.....

 

almost forget the 150HP nitrous kit...

just in case

 

465hp w/o nitrous or with?

 

I'm betting those numbers are with the shot of N2o. To get 470+ ft-lbs out of a 350 is a royal PITA. We're talking race setups ment to have valve lash adjusted every day.
One of these days I'll have the cash to get dynoed. Until then I'll just base my hp from trap speeds vs weight vs weather

 

You would lose the bet if there was one... Those dyno #s were on motor only.

No race setups here...just the right selection of parts and working with a top notch builder

My engine's cam is a maintenance free Hydraulic Roller.

Compression is a street friendly 10.5:1, and the engine runs on good old "pump grade" 93 octane. As a matter of fact the dyno pulls were done using Amoco Ulitmate 93.

About the only exotic items on the motor is the Projection 4Di.

 

well that makes a big diffrence...

if we want to talk projection 4 , or command 950 setups. there is a guy that used to be in our local club with a supercharged 468 BB, with a holley 4Di

also Kingta1on has a roots blower on a 355 with a commander 950 he is pushing 500hp.

 

The dyno pulls were also made with an "unextotic" 750 CFM Carburator, since there was not enough time for me to get the projection system

Put that in your pipe and smoke it....

 

yeah, but you would be a deity if you did that with factory TBI

 

Yes indeed

The factory TBI unit does make a good ashtray.

I'll post my 3D autocad drawings for those that want to make one of their own...

 

i bet you could rig something up so after you finish, you tap the throtle and in puts drops the ashes and butt into a holding container

 

FRMULA88 what heads and what are the cam specs you are running. Those are the numbers I a shooting for my next project.

 

Heads are Dart "Iron Eagles"

215 CC intake runners
64 CC chambers
COMP CAMS roller rockers 1.6 intake 1.5 exhaust.

Cam is a COMP CAMS "Extreme Energy"
I don't know the grind specs off hand

You will need a vacuum can to run power brakes since you will only have about 9" of vacuum.
Running this cam you will need at least 3.73 gears and 3000 stall converter.

The idle is lopey but the street manners is great, especially when you hit the hammer... No bogginfg off the line and the car pulls way past 5500 I have been granny shifting it at 4700 and running solid 12.6s

The car is not a daily driver but it can has been driven on the street without problems.

Invest in the following for trouble free street use:
A good 4 core radiator
Trans cooler

 

9" of vacuum, that sounds like a pretty big cam. Probably the comp xe 236/242. I am going to be using the comp xe 224/230 cam with 200cc pro topline heads. Comp recommended the 230/236 cam, but that may be a little big for my taste. Mine is going to be a daily driver though. Do you really need the aftermarket radiator? I am in AZ, I was just going to get a high flow water pump.

 

FRMULA88 posted his timeslips here:

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...ghlight=holley

and the best was 12.5 @ 105 mph with an avg of 1.7x sec to 60'.

There are, however, a few problems. First, 470 fwhp & torque in an Fcar should run a lot faster than 12.5 @ 105. A stock 4th gen LS1 Fcar will run 12.8x @ 105-107 and that's with 100 less hp/ftlbs and similar weight. FRMULA88 ran slightly quicker (suggesting more torque) but slower.... also with no nitrous.

Second, I agree with JPrevost's comment that it's, ahem, hard to get 470 ftlbs out of a 350 unless you run a really wild cam, and you have fantastic heads, and it you have a resonance-tuned engine... or variable valve timing to boost the BMEP. I almost posted that remark yesterday, but I decided to wait to see if I wasn't alone.

Vizard's Chevy engine book shows that it's even tough to get 470+ ftlbs from a n/a 400 sbc because the valves are really just too darn small to get optimum cylinder filling. So I find it hard to believe that you are getting 470 ftlbs at the flywheel in a n/a 350.

Furthermore, a 350 can make 470 fwhp... hell magazine articles have shown above 500 hp, but they aren't very streetable. And a 470 hp engine would be running a lot faster than 104-105 mph.

So I don't dispute the timeslips you posted, especially when using a 4-bore 900 cfm Holley TBI unit. That induction/fuel system should be able to run that fast in a well prepared car.

Your power claims, however, don't jive with the timeslips. Was the dyno run by the same guy would built the engine? Or did you have it tested at an independent shop? 12.5 @ 105 timeslips, with good 60' times (and hence goood traction) suggest that you are making good torque but not as much power as you would think. If you hadn't said you had a 350, I would have guessed you were running a 383/396/406 stroker, because that engine would easily have good torque but would be hurting for power.

Lastly Tom400cfi has run 13.2 in the quarter mile and at Wasatch-range altitude. So his modified (but still factory) cfi (atop a tired 400 sbc) is one of the fastest TBI cars, and hence is making decent power. FWIW.

 

If you look at this post https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...ight=224%2F224 by JMatlock8. His car is making 460hp 520ft lbs at the flywheel NA. The dyno numbers are 380hp and 432ft lbs to the wheels. This is on a stealth ram 350. I am going to be running a similar setup and I will be sure to get it on a dyno shortly after spring break (hopefully)

 

He already let the cat out of the bag.

Seems like the projection and accessories is about 80+ hp less than the Carb. 105 mph = ~300 rwhp.

 

I have been granny shifting it at 4700 and running solid 12.6s

More realistic track times to follow this season when I get the governor dialed in to raise the shift point.

The car goes on the chassis dyno next month to dial-in the fuel map and the shift points since peak HP power occurs at 5800
you do the math.

Since the engine is not winding up at the track like it did on the dyno I hardly think it was because I used a carb on the dyno.
and BTW the numbers I gave where Net ratings. (already factored parasitic losses).

 

forgot about the shift points. It'll be interesting to see what it puts down in street trim

 

Could I get the name of this engine builder and a phone number? Maybe he'll have the specs for the cam. What exhaust are you running?
kdrolt makes good points....also what I was waiting for. Glad to see I'm not alone calling on some of these claims. I don't doubt anything until I've researched it enough to know that it's physically impossible else it would have been replicated more frequently. Only exception might be something that's kept secret between engine builders and people that read their books.
470 ft-lb with a hyd. roller cam extream energy with iron eagle heads, 350, and a 750 carb doesn't compute.
This kind of stuff is exactly why I think dyno numbers and about worthless. Take it to the track, tune it, run it. Figure out with an equation how much hp the motor is making by looking at the weight, weather, and trap speed. Nothing else matters if it did, you'd all be wowing and believing the bs most import crowds feed you with "hp/liter". Give me "hp/lb" anyday.
Also I can't understand how a 470 ft-lb 350 has a 5800rpm redline. That redline seems at least 500rpm lower than I would expect unless the shortblock was a 2 bolt main and stock/stage 1 rods/bolts.

 

I am running Mufflex 4" exhaust.

The question was highest TBI HP #'s Not "dissect your engine on the internet so I can copy your setup.." so far no one has posted any of THEIR OWN #s except for myself. All I've read is that "so and so is running a blower" and "my setup should make.." Then you come and here and have the ***** to discredit someone's dyno #s. If that's not flaming I don't know what is


Find your own engine builder... Mine's in Chicago

 

Yup, thanks for clearing things up for me. Now it makes sence that you're talking out of your ***. Glad to see people sharing information on the internet. Your dyno numbers don't make sence compared to your performance not to mention you dynoed with a carb. Oh yeah, then there is the fact that you have NO idea what cam you're running but a hydralic roller is making 470ft-lbs of torque with a 350 n/a and iron eagle heads, lol.
You should pull your head out of your *** and see that we're only posting because things don't make sence. There is no "secret weapon", it's called physics, statics, dynamics, harmonics, fluids, thermo, and kinematics. Once you get a small grasp of reality you'll see that somebody F'd up on your dyno pulls. I don't know where to start or end it's all fubar. I'm going to say that your engine dyno is , put a carb on the car if it made those big numbers and take it back to the track. Tell us what it runs.
BTW, I was running 102mph trap speeds with a bad fuel pump and stock TBI 350 chip in full street trim. My motor is the wimpy 330ho crate motor with a 2" bore holley TBI. Plane old 330hp net hp vortec heads, small 212/222 .435/.460 flat hyd. cam.
In no way am I knocking on your car or the motor or you. I just think you either got lied too about the dyno info.

 

I'd like to interject with a combo that Car Craft put together and hope that this thread calms down a little.

Car Craft took a ZZ4 short block, topped it with AFR 195 heads, Victor Jr intake and a 850 CFM fuel mixer. For a cam they used a mech roller of 242/248 @ 050, 0.578/0.0584 lift. Not all that radical. Numbers? Whoa:

523 HP @ 6,600 rpm & 454 ft/lb @ 5,200 rpm.

With a 350 ci engine.

Both Dart & AFR heads flow very well (among others). Change the cam profile a little and the torque will go up as the HP drops a little (change of RPM range). Dragstrip times/speeds are a funny thing. All depends how the vehicle is driven.

RBob.

 

can we please get backl to teh original question in the post of top tbi powered cars.
i never dyno'ed my stock cam set up. using the common formulas that use trap speed and vehicle weight i estimated it at about 215-230 at teh wheels.
that was with stock cam and chip, 15psi on 305 injectors, edelbrock intake, edelbrock centerbolt heads with 2.02/1.60 heads, and 1.6 roller tipped rockers.
i really wish i had done a chip for the motor before i took it apart. i'll bet there was at least 3 mph of trap speed left in it.

later
tim

 

Sorry for being an ***. Seriously, the only reason I'm posting is because I can't understand it. Please PLEASE get the dyno stuff with TBI and new times after tuning.

 

Spring thaw is near...

Chassis Dyno appointment is in April

Track opens in April

If I bust into the 11s this year, on motor,believe me you'll ALL be the SECOND to know. My builder get's first notice.

That should eliminate, hopefully, any doubts.

Oh and for the record my Engine Builder is

Speed Service Inc.
3049 W. Irving Park Road
Chicago, IL 60618
773-478-1616

Ask for Brian

I'm sure he'll answer any questions for you about his dynomometer and his engine building credentials.

Also for the record I was present for the dyno session. Who wouldn't be at the the birth of their child

 

3.5698 Gigamilipedehorsey power.

But, thru the mufflers, sway bars on, BFG Euros, ran
mid 13s day in and day out.
Cross fire'd.
CC 270 cam AL vette heads, TES, 3.23s posi, 2" butterflies, BBC injectors lots of tuning, was over 5 years ago.

 

I'm with Grumpy. I think the topic is about how much you can get out of a Throttle Body Injected motor. Not carb, not NOS.
13.6 using a Xfire manifold and 2.13" TB's on 80# injectors. 102mph is best trap speed so far. That's because I found out I was running 28d total advance using TFS 23d heads. I am looking forward to finding out how much faster another 8-10d will make my car run. BTW, all emissions, full exhaust, street tires at 35psi, half tank of gas at the strip.

 

Unless your running some large chambers, 28 might be all you need. The newer compact well designed chambers don't require as much advance as say a 76'er.

 

+ ok letrs get back to the original question of the highest HP TBI's. no carbs, i wanna stick with the TBI as long as possible and i wanna get some HP out it it too. .....until i can afford a new 350

 

Bruce,

The TFS 23d heads are 64cc chambers. Once I found out that I had 28d total advance, I burned a new chip using 38d. The difference SOTP was pretty dramatic. To your point, it may be that 38d is not the optimum advance. But it certainly felt like the motor wants more than 28d. I hope to find out what it likes at the track and at the dyno. I used 38d because in all of the reviews I have read regarding these TFS heads, the best power was made with 38d total. So that's why I started there.
BTW, I have a buddy running L98 AL heads and he's using 42d total. I agree with you on the need for less advance which is what the latest GenII and III heads are using. I'll keep you posted once I get the car back on the ground and off the jackstands.

 

Please be careful. Once I too ran 42d with the L98 Vette heads. Was not the way to go. Felt good in 1st gear, then 2nd felt kinda rough, then with 3rd just didn't go anymore. Various tests show 30-34d max at WOT works with those heads.

The L98 aluminum heads are a funny animal. They operate within a narrow SA range.

RBob.

 

RBob,

I don't have the L98's. But I understand what you're saying. Were you saying that 30-34 deg. works on the TFS 23deg.?

 

No, I was referring to the statement about the L98's and the 42d WOT SA. As for the L98's GM recommends 32d SA for their ZZ4. Others have found 35d gives better power (don't know how much more). As it was on a dyno I am sceptical about that much being required/recommended on the street.

As for the TFS heads, I have no experience tuning with them. If the 38d was on a dyno, I'd knock it down several degrees.

RBob.

 

Beware the Seat of the Pants.

I can run 4-6d too much timing then best performance on my car with no trace of detonation.
While tuning to the limit of detonation might work on some cars, it's by no means a Golden rule.

I should buy shares in G-Tech.

 

Bruce,

Just so you know I'm not completely crazy, I do have my scantool on and watching for knock counts.

 

Won't always do you any good. I went through the same thing. . . no knock so I must be OK. At higher engine speeds there is not enough time for a total hard knocking detonation to take place. The engine gets rough and the little pepper flakes start to show up on the plugs.

With too much timing the lower gears can feel great. Then as you go up the gears suddenly the car just doesn't accelerate as quickly as it should, gets rough and dies.

RBob.

 

I'm hopefully looking at around 325/360 on my sbc 400. estimated specs, who knows how close i am. gotta get her running 100% before i can get her to the dyno

 

Well.....Look at sig for mods.

Desktop Dyno says 300hp and 400lb-ft at the crank.

20% reduction is 240/320.

No times yet.

My left ******** is dynojet approved. It says 232 and 311.

My right ******** is mustang dyno approved. That one says 255 and 357.

I'll get it dyno'ed next weekend.

(The ******** dyno remark is a joke referring to the "Seat of the pants." Guesses.)

 

RBob,

Thanks for that info. Live and learn. That's what this forum is about.:hail:

 

Do you really think you're gonna have that much HP and TQ from just those mods? that seems way too easy to accomplish

 

Probably not.

Desktop Dyno is known to overshoot numbers by a good margin. But at this point in time, its the only thing I have.