Well I finally got back out to the track yesterday w/ my new mods and needless to say I was disappointed w/ my new times. When I ran it the first time, I had just drove into the lanes from my 15 min. drive from my house w/ no cool down and turned a 16.5@83.81. I was pissed since I pulled a 15.7@86.01 w/ nothing but an open element and deleted cat, last time out. I messed around w/ fuel pressure and timing and it resulted in slightly better times like a 16.2@84.55. I let it cool down and I made another run at about 9:30PM. This time I manually shifted to about 5100-5500 rpm between gears and got a 15.9@85.52. What gives? I was expecting a big improvement and was seriously let down. Does anyone have suggestions, and please dont say prom tuning be cuz I already know that, but theres got to be something else I can do to at least get back to where I started. Oh yea mods are in sig.

 

you need custom tuning BAD!

 

Well dude, don't be too disappointed. When I blew my old 305 and put in a 350, I was also expecting a BIG difference. It turned out that with this combo:
INTAKE: 350TBI unit with "the ultimate TBI mods" on stock manifold
IGNITION: MSD AL6 Box, Blaster Coil, Cap & Rotor (ALL MSD) Split Fire plugs, & Taylor 8.8mm wires
EXHAUST: headers, y-pipe, 3" exhaust, Cat-deleted, flowmaster 80 series.
TRANNY:Fresh rebuild 700R4 auto w/ OD
MOTOR: 350 bored .030 = 355ci. New bearings and mains. Stock Cam. Stock 350 camaro heads w/ dremel DIY porting.
CHIP: Brian Harris on here made me the COP car chip for 350 TBI
EMISSOINS: NO BS, I got rid of CAT, SMOG, EGR, all that happy horse ****

I was severely disappointed to run a 16.2 consistently and a best of 16.11 with 84%humidity on 81 degree sunny day. These times were with NO wheel slippage at ALL!
However with some tuning, I was able to make the car respectible.
ALSO, and adjustible fuel pressure regulator WILL do wonders if you know how to tune it. I didn't have one at first and picked up about 1 sec when I had my fuel mix settled better.

 

What are you doing about fuel?

Im on this frame of mind that I think all potential performance gains are lost because we dont have enough fuel to use the cam/heads, lol. Ill tell you how it pans out when the new pump goes in over the 4th.

 

you really need to port those 416's out and enlarge them to 1.94/1.5 valves. The thing that really makes those heads shine is the fact that they can outflow vortecs when properly prepped. I think their flow in stock form isnt that great.

 

Look @ my prof.

 

RS,

Just out of curiosity, what is your race weight?

 

if he realy is pushing the #s he says must be like 4500 pounds

 

I'de believe it. Look at his trap speeds. 111 mph is nothing to sneeze at.

 

lets see the sixty foot times dude

 

i dont remember if it was him or someone else but someones tbi'd car only weighs like 2800 lbs with driver. If it was RSGuy, then that would equate to around 14.6-14.8 in an untouched 3500 lb thirdgen.

 

My 60' times w/ the new cam ranged from 2.3x to 2.5x w/ very little to no tire spin. I got a 2.2x when it was stock w/ a little spinning.

 

Replace your fuel filter then mount a fuel pressure gauge to your windshield. Run the car and watch the fuel pressure closely. If it dips down replace the pump. Stock TBI pumps are crap once you go away from stock and even stock they are border line junk.

 

The filter and pump are omly a year old. I replaced the pump w/ a walbro factory replacement from Advance Auto.

 

The factory replacement pump still has the built in max pressure of ~18psi with no load, maybe less with full drain. I wouldn't use anything other than a TPI pump replacement at the least or just go for the 190lph pump walbro has for only $89 off of the internet. I got the 255lph pump and have no problems at idle. In fact my motor idles at 600rpm and 28psi no hickups, lickady split, no sh*t . If you don't burn your own eproms yet then stick with the "smaller" pump which is still HUGE when compared to the stock pumps.

 

I think you need headers and 3" exhaust to get the most out of any cam up grade. Doesn't do much good to change cams if it cant get the exhaust out.The fact that the stock cam responds greatly to headers and 3" exhaust shows how choked up it is. I gained some thing like 7mph trap speed from exhaust on a otherwise stock lo3. Did you bump up your timing? I ran 8* when I ran a LT1 cam.

 

You know absolutely nothing about drag racing.....

My best 60' time was 1.88 I can't get the car to hook up even on the E/T streets. I am going to go tubs after I get the HSR, because I should be in the low 12's with that trap speed right now, but since I can't hook, it is killing me off the line. I have to do a massive burnout, then baby it off the line...hence the poor 60' times. When I get past the tree, then I put it to the floor. BESIDES, MPH is a shadow of horsepower, not E/T

Oh, and BTW, I still have all the interior and a fairly decent stereo setup in it. Last time I checked the car weighed about 3400ish pounds with me in it. When I get tubs, the rear is coming out so the carpet and **** will be gone too. Also, I'm thinking about going with fibreglass fenders and door shells, since the cage will keep it square.

But the money isn't as easy to get as the parts, you all know that

 

Hmm... now im intrigued...

I i distinctly remember someone saying they had a lightwieght car and i found you posting this in this thread

you also quoted as having run a 12.7 @ 121 miles per hour.

well, which is it? 13.5? 12.7? 3400 lbs? 2800 lbs?

Im not trying to call you out or be a pain in the ***, which is what im probably coming off as, but i want to know because i want to get some decent times out of my car eventually and ive been taking a close look at what others are doing and what results theyre getting. You claim to have the fastest N/A car on the tbi board and id like to know what it really does and how much it weighs.

 

I know headers and a good exhaust would be a good upgrade but I doubt that is why my car ran slower than the times I laid down when I was stock. I'm guessing that a gear change would help cuz the power band was moved up and that a better adapter plate for my TBI would help alot too. The plate I have now is one I got off of ebay. It does not center my TBI on the intake, it sits about an inch or so back from the orig position. Would'nt that extra length cause some cyl. to go leaner than others? And I'm sure prom tuning would help.

 

to some extent. I have a holley plate that does the same thing, the tbi sits really far back. Ive noticed that the rear plugs are a little darker then the fronts, but not by much.

 

Well I'm going to make anew plate. It probably wont do anything but give me peace of mind, but its worth a try. I need to get some headers too. Thats next on my list after I finish my peiced together nitrous kit.

 

Headers and exhaust wouldnt' be a good upgrade, they are MANDATORY at this point!! Even before this point. Header and exhaust should be the first "major" purchase when up looking for power in an F-Bod. I think you are going slower now for two reasons:
*your current parts combo
*tuning -and I'm not talking about PROM tuning

With the addition of a bigger cam and better flowing heads (though they are still pretty weak), you most likely lost some low end torque, as shown in your horrible 60' times. You should be looking for a 60' of 2.0 or better on REAL street tires. On the other end of the tach, I don't believe you could have picked up any peak horsepower with that stock exhaust. Those manifolds and Y will not let that engine breath.

As for tuning, get an AFPR, a fuel gauge, a timing light and spend some time. Set your FP at about 10 PSI. Make a pass. Note your time. Raise the FP by 2 psi. Run again, trying to drive EXACTLY THE SAME. Note the time. Go up by another 2 psi. Do it again. Continue untill you see your time go in the other direction. That testing will show you approximately where you should set your FP. Now do the same thing again with timing. Make a pass, adjust by two degree's. Repeat until you see a trend that shows what timing that combo likes best. I guarentee that you will see a decent gain with just this, but more than tuning, you need the headers.

I also second what Jprevost said; your fuel pump may be marginal -even though it's new. You really can't go too big on a fuel pump. It'll alway dump the excess back through the regulator.

PROM tuning is definitely the right way to tune, but if you look and my combo and results(in sig), you will quickly notice that there are other ways to skin a cat. I'm running a 400 CID engine through the 1/4 in 13.5 with the stock AND original ECM AND CHIP!! Not only that, but the car has turned 25 mpg on the highway to boot. Hard to knock that "budget tunning", IMO. But it did take time to dial in. My first pass with the 400 installed was a 15.6! That's pathetic. A week later, with a new fuel pump, and bigger injectors, I was running mid 14's (at 4500'), and so on.

I noticed you said you had a little wheel spin, which I think is odd given your terrible 60'. If traction becomes a problem, do this:
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...threadid=59201

 

Those were 2 entirely diffent cars.
They were indeed both 92 RS's, but the faster one, I gave to my wife after aquiring another 92RS I put the old motor from it in the new one. The interior is back to normal and now she drives it everyday. I think after adding a new motor completely streetible the best time it now runs is 14's(Her car). This motor in my wifes car had about 100K mi on it so I wasn't going to make it faster.

I got rid of the stock heads, and put in World Products Torquers that are beefed up. I got a comp cam custom cam shaft too, put the LT1 cam in my wifes new motor. Also, this car has 3.73 gears, my old one had 3.23 I believe.

My new project is getting the HSR, that should put me in the 11's on MT E/T Streets. I rebuilt this motor with better Clevite bearings and dished pistons. It was rebuilt intentionally for adding the HSR(thats why the times are slower), so I HOPE everything works out and I get this project done by the end of summer. I need to figure out how to do suspension tricks with the 4 link and stuff to help me hook at the line, but I think the tubs will have to come first. I don't really wanna tub it, 'cause I'll add more rotational mass, but I don't think I can hook up any other way. I was told that I could fit a 10" wide rim on the rear, this would allow me to run like a 295 or 305" tire, but I don't see how it'll fit in the fenders. Hope this clears things up, I didn't intentionally try to mislead anyone. Sorry.

12's weren't fast enough just yet, so I am greedy and pushing for 11's. That's part of the reason I changed the motor around. Pretty soon this thing ain't gonna be streetible so after I get this accomplished, I'm gonna stay there. I like being able to be one of the fastest cars on the street and still be able to run well at the track. I wouldn't say that I'm the fastest one here that's N/A, but after I get my setup, I think I'll be the fastest N/A car that's drivin to work daily on here

 

ahh... youve still got the fastest tbi car, so far. 13.5 is pretty impressive for a car with a restrictive 480 some odd cfm 2" tbi on it. I donno about tom's cfi'd 400. That things a freak . 13.2 on the stock chip when most of us cant break the 15's with the factory prom in the ecm. I know i have real big problems with WOT bog with the stock prom. No where near enough advance.

 

Thanx for the tips Tom but I'm not a stranger to tuning at the strip. I did take a timing light and I adjusted timing on 3 different occasions. I started at 8 degrees and ended up a 12 on the third try. I do have a afpr and I adjusted it too. I tried 9# and went to 12# and ran it but it smelled really rich so I backed down to 11#. My cool down periods were diif. lenghts cuz of lots of racers that night and it got cooler as the night went on so that could have affected my times. And on all of the "tuning" runs I left it in DRIVE. The best time I pulled was the last run when I was pissed off and shifted it myself at a higher RPM. Thats when I came to that conclusion. I ran about 9 times that night overall.

 

Have you tried an adjustible fuel pressure regulator?
Then you could increase the pressure slightly, That would give you back the punch at WOT. This may cause a slight **** idle, probably not, 'cause the 02 sensor will lean the engine due to the rich mix.

 

Yes, I do have one.

 

Sounds like you're on the right track, but don't let the rich smelling exhaust hold up progress;

Continue to richen the FP until you see a downward trend in your time slip, then spend a little time expirimenting w/FP right around the area that showed you the best times. Do not worry about rich idle/ exhaust smell, etc at this point. Right now you should be just looking for what fuel and timing your engine wants at WOT, from about 3000 to 5000 RPM. Just pay attention to time slips. And try to do this in 2# increments. Also try to make at least 2 passes per setting. It is a PITA, but it'll show you what you need to see.

AFTER you've found the ideal WOT settings, THEN try to figure out how to get the idle/cruise acceptable. This may mean a compromise setting, it may mean installing a VRFPR, it may mean installing different sized injectors and then re-adjusting the FP accordingly. It's all about time consuming trial and error. But when you start honing in on the right settings you will feel like a magician -every time you touch it, it goes better.

Still, I don't you going better than a 15.5 with the stock exhaust manifolds.

Dimented24x7, thanks for the ...uh, compliment? lol.

 

Jet and Holly both recommend 13.6# on the regulator with a "stock, or slightly modded 350), so your probably still running lean!!!! I'm a tad rich and I'm at 18# with a boldly modded car. Just some FYI.

 

Since the cat & EGR are gone, chances are your just smelling more of the GAS and your not rich. You can't go by smell, you have to either go DYNO or seat of the pants, for budget ppl. Im my opinion you should set this up to run best:

13.6# pressure.
8-10 degrees advanced timing(If starter will allow it and still work!).

ALSO, find a way to block-off your Knock Sensor retard, because It will make your times inconsistant. I had this done in my chip, but I think someone makes a fitting for it?? Someone on here is bound to know about it.

 

Yea I made a few runs back to back at the same settings and they were very different. I guess cuz of knock? One pass would be a quicker ET w/ low MPH and then the other would be vice versa. And at my current initial timing setting the starter does'nt like it too much.

 

With the LT1 cam it will be very rich at idle unless you use a vacAFPR or chip tune. But it will still run great through out the power band. Tom explianed what I was trying to hint at. LT1 cam robs a little low end power and makes more top end power. Stock exhaust doesn't breath on the top end, so you loose power every where. Tunning will help, but you won't see squat with stock exhaust.