Alright so i have this year long school project where i get to do some huge project/paper/presentation on whatever.

I want to turn my LO3 into a low 14 second car (I'd really like to run sub 14 but for the purposes of the project I'm shooting for a low 14). Heres what i was looking at, tell me what you think. remember, its my first time !

hooker 2055's w/ 3inch flowmasters no cat, 1.6 crane rr's, weiand x-celerator single plane intake (7547), 3.08-3.42posi, ASP crank pulley 25% w/ smog delete.

I'll be getting the equipment for chip burning for christmas. a quick question about that. Idk anything about it but im pretty good at figuring computer programs out, do chip burning kits usually come w/ instruction books that explain everything about how to do it?

I appreciate everything you guys have done for me already, you're a big help to someone w/o any experience on their car.

 

That is a great project, wish I had a class like that. Anyways it is going to take a lot of money to get to your goal. You could take the asy way out and spray a nice 150 shot and be done with it. But that isn't any fun. You combo has a good start and I am glad that you mentioned chip burning. You will need it more than any mod. it is great to start early so that when you really add mods you already know how to tune. I hope you have a lot of money because you are going to need it. Most of us mod our cars over time on a limited budget. It took me over 3 years to finaly get every bolt on and pay for the car. I was just about to get into heads and cam when I wrecked the car. Now she is my 10 year project and I have diverted my funds to a faster car. You will save most of your money if you learn how to install all of these mods yourself. You may want to look into a L98 or LT1 cam to help you reach your goal. Well withing tuning capabilites and yield great results on these cars.

 

I wanna go to your school.

 

im running 14.7s with the mods in my sig, i know i could be in the low 14s with a L98 cam, LB9 ported heads, and a Performer carb or TBI intake. I might swap on the intake and heads just for the hell of it so that i dont have to do any tuning and see where it takes me.

 

Well ive already got the flowmaster. And i plan on doing ultimate TBI mods over the next week. Beyond that though where should i start?

I was thinking the crank pully since i dont think that requires tuning, and could prolly be done before the car goes up for the winter.

Im planning on doing headers and intake in the winter when the car is not driveable anyway. And then the 1.6 rollers if funds permit.

the 308-342 posi (im running 273 open right now) is a must although since i plan i getting it out of the classified sectoin i dont know when it'll be going in.

Anyone have any experience w/ 1.6 rollers or that xcelerator intake (or any single palne for that matter). These are the two things that i really dont knwo what to expect from.

 

BTW, anyone know how much trouble it is to install a new rearend? I might wind up converting to disc in the process, is this that much more of a hassle? Should i just pay someone to do it or can i handle it myself?

 

just swapping rears is cake... doing it the way i did is the hard way, i did the full on gear swap.

 

I went to school a long time (12 years regular, 11 years college) and know a good bit about report writing, setting goals, scope, objectives, etc.
Here are a few suggestions/considerations:

*I would state that your goal is to tune/modify your car to run the 1/4 mile is less than 15 seconds- just to put that number in the reader/teachers head. Then when you achieve 14's you'll look like a star to a lot of people.

*Baseline the car as is, so even if you can't break into the 14's for any reason, you can show marked improvement and provide suggestions for further improvement it you've run out of time.

*Cite all your sources-

*You are proposing a lot of work for a year. How is you funding?

*Timing- It sounds as if you will not get your tuning equipment until Christmas- the school year is halfway over by then. How will the weather be in your area at that time for test driving? Here is a tip- start reading everything you can about chip burning right now.

* You need posi, for sure.

* Good air intake system.

I put quite a bit of work in on my car for 1.5 years, put in a Vortec headed 350, did tuning, suspension injectors etc... It took alot of work just to make it run 13.8 @100.0 mph. There is more left in it for sure, but I'd hate to see you set a goal way in the hell up there and then not achieve it. It will take a lot of work is all I'm saying.

*You school kicks azz- I wish I had gone there.

Best of luck with your project- Let us know how it turns out- post often!

S-D

 

"*I would state that your goal is to tune/modify your car to run the 1/4 mile is less than 15 seconds- just to put that number in the reader/teachers head. Then when you achieve 14's you'll look like a star to a lot of people. "
-good idea, done
"Baseline the car as is, so even if you can't break into the 14's for any reason, you can show marked improvement and provide suggestions for further improvement it you've run out of time. "
-also done

Ive priced it out and i will have exhaust, posi, pulley, for sure.
question is if funds arent permiting what is most important: intake or rr's?

The project itself is actually a pretty big joke for most people. Im using it as an excuse to build up my lo3. But even if it is an excuse i'm going to be learning about (and already have) my car.
thanks for the help already guys.

BTW, anyone know how much of a hassle it is to put a disc rearend onto a car that has drums right now? could you elaborate on 'piece of cake' dewey? no offence but last poc project i did (shift kit) took 10 hours more than advertised! you can pm me if you find it more approite.

 

putting in a rear wasnt too bad. Just messy. Pretty much its just suport the rear with stands, unhook the shocks, then the panhard bar, sway bar, and brake lines and e-brake cable. Lower the rear untill the springs are unloaded. Remove them along with the rubber bushings. Unbolt the driveshaft from the yoke and support it out of the way. Dont remove it from the trans or youll ahve a mess of atf everywhere. Unbolt the LCA's and any other hardware remaining. Finally, remove the torque arm and pull out the rear. Put the new rear on a floor jack and raise it into position. Dont be like me and drop it on yourself. Its heavy and youll curse the whole time your maneuvering it back onto the jack. If you have a lift then jsut lower the car down to the rear end. Installation is the reverse of removal. Bleed the brakes, double check the fluid level and all lines/cables and your good to go. Oh, another thing... The torque arm is always the last part off and the first part on. If you do it in any other order youll quickly find out why.

 

Wow thanks, doenst get much better then that.

anyone have any tips on learning to tune? books links etc.

intake or rockers? if it comes down to a budget crunch which should go on first?

 

Id personally skip the single plane intake if youll be sticking with the stock heads. A good dual plane with an adapter that allows the bores to be shared would probably be a better match since the only card those heads have to play is low to mid range torque. Id also get a set of good steel roller rockers. I dont know how your heads are but the ones on my L03 had guide slots. If thats the case then i dont think you dont have to run a set of SA rockers, which opens up alot more choices. I wouldnt use aluminum stuff. It might be cheaper but it also breaks since aluminum doesnt posess infinite fatigue life like ferrous metals do.

 

I was under the impression that all lo3's needed SA rockers. I'll do a little more research on this to find out if its true. If it is, here are the two rockers I've been looking at. Comp 1.6 rr's (CCA-1318-16) and Crane 1.6 rr's (CRN-10758-16) the cranes are aluminum, but i dont think the comps are (not sure). Are there any other parts that have to be purchased if i switch to 1.6rrs? another thing, i want full rollers not just roller tips right?

On the intake, I plan on putting a set of vortecs or more likely porting some lb9 or similar heads and swapping them onto my lo3. But this is probably not going to happen for another year ($). Would the single plane hurt me much before then?

Dimented, did you put 1.6's on your car? what kind of results did this yeild?
Thanks again guys, huge help.
-chuck

 

the comp pro-mags are the only way to go, they are stainless steel. they will basicly last forever.

 

I still have the stock 1.5 ratio rubber rockers. I do plan on better stuff when i get around to getting better heads and exaust.

 

i read the computer tuning article in the tech section and from what i gater im going to need the following parts to burn my own chips.

eproms: $cheap
programmer:less than $200
scanner: more than $300
eraser: $no clue (help here)

Question is how necessary is the scanner, will i be able to burn a chip that will allow my car to run decent w/0 it? is there a cheaper route to go than with the expencieve scanners? please help, this one is really putting a damper on my budgeting.

 

Well you need to download windal and use an interface cable hooked up to your car and run it and datalog. You use this info to determine all of your engines running parameters.

 

If ive read correctly (and its very possible i missed something first time through) then the interface cable hooks from your car to a scanner, which in turn hooks to a laptop. Ive already got a laptop that can handle this, but is the scanner necessary, or is there a cable that will go right from the car to the laptop?

 

No scanner. You hook the interface cable directly into you laptop and use the free winaldl software to datalog. Then get a programmer and you can check out craig moates' stuff and switch to an eeprom socket (i think he's offering them now) and you don't have to worry about the eraser or tons of eproms either.

 

definatly agree with avoiding the 2732 eproms. After all these years they seldom work. You can also make your own eeprom/flash rom adapter for just a few bucks if you like to DIY. Thats what i did, and then craig began selling the adapter for the C3 ecm's again right after i made it. Go figure...

 

I searched "TBI ECM" on E-bay.
here is one cable that I believe would work for you-
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2442233786

Can anyone verify if this cable will work for him? I do not have experience with this particular brand cable. The E-Bay ad said it would work for TBI, so it must be true?!?!? kidding./

S-D

 

it should work with winaldl in theory. Id still jsut build teh cable from the included schematics instead. Its garanteed to work with his software and it costs jsut a few dolars to make.

 

what about this thing, i found it on the diy board im sure someone has heard of it, he calls it the promenator....
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=190424
sounds cheaper/easier/better... im assuming ill still need this cable you're talking about, ill be looking for a link to make my own if you say its not to difficult, anyone have a link?
OK, this has been more help than imagined, one more thing, when i get all this computer chip editing whatever, how hard is it to learn how to get a good setup. Just a chip that will run the car well with the mods that ive listed at the beginning. I just want to be sure ill be able to get the car running ok w/o too much difficulty.
thanks again guys
-chuck

 

Here is a link to winaldl >click< He also gives schematics for the cable in there. The prominator might be a bit much for what you want. Pretty much the only things you *have* to buy are the eeproms, the PP2, and some misc. stuff to make the cable and/or the adapter for the eeproms. I think there are some .ecu files floating around out there for the 89+ 8746 ecms, in which case you can jsut use the freeware instead of getting TC. I like tuner cats alot but the 90 dollar price tag is kinda steep. Overall your looking at some soldering and around 180 some odd dollars of parts.

 

Look on the Diy-Prom board there's a new release of Gmecmedit or I think he calls it tunerpro now. It's free software to edit the proms and is fairly advanced with graphing features now too. It's supposedly just as good as tunercat now. Jon Prevost has the ecu file on the diy-efi ftp I think as well as bin files such as the ANLU (caprice 9c1). You can get all that stuff for free then do some datalogging with winaldl and you can also find Jon's program called aldltobin and that will alter your VE tables automatically based on datalogs. That all should get your engine running fairly well, then you just need to fine turn the VE and work on the spark tables (quite a bit more difficult than VE I think) if you want it running perfect.

 

Ill definatly agree with that, especially if your engine isnt stock. Those L03 SA tables never worked at all for me. Ended up making an entirly new SA table.

 

So i just run those programs w/ the new stuff instaled in my car and it tells me the info i need to put into the new chip. I burn the chip and have a chip good enough to have everything working together? this sounds like a good deal. Unless i totally misunderstood you. BTW, what are VE tables?

OK, i looked at the cables link and to buy one is $37 at least, it sounds like there much cheaper to make. Ill have to learn what all the symbols on those wiring diagrams are (shouldnt take to long) and then try to solder one up. Question is, should i be able to hook this into my aldl port and the other end into my lap top and start datalogging with winaldl or a similar program just to see if my cable works?

I liked the prominator b/c it sounded fairly simple to use. I still havent finished reading the thread (just found it today) so ill go back and finish and come back w/ a better understanding of it.

 

VE = Volumentric Efficency

basicly the computer has a huge table that uses inputs from the MAP sensor and engine rpm ect, to figure out how much fuel it needs to give the engine. Jon Prevosts program takes the aldl logs, and the current BIN you are using, and gives you a new BIN that has adjusted VE tables based on the aldl BLM data you give it. well not perfect science, after several run thoughs you should be close on your part throttle fueling.

WOT turning is a whole 'nother ball game. and i am not even touching spark tables right now (i am at work, i can't waist THAT much time.)

as for the cable, it is cake to build, yes all you due is plug it in to teh serial port on your lap top, shove the other peices in the aldl connector, then turn on winaldl, and if the cable is properly built, it will start giving you data.

my best advice is to start by taking things slowly, do lots of reading on the DIY board, read the stickies, ect. then make chips by doing small changes at a time.

i also suggest getting a moates adaptor, you will love it, and being able to use EEPROMs is a huge plus.

good luck, it will be well worth it for you, just check out my thread (still on this page i think) about my last night at the track for a year.

 

Here is the diagram for that cable.



Now are all of those resisters and the transistor just soldered into the end of the DB9 hook up right? Im assuming If i got to radio shack and tell them i need 10k resistors they'll be able to glep me out, ill be trying this this weekend hopefully, I'll start datalogging and playing around with some stuff so im not this forign when the actual tunning process starts.

 

not exactly, imigine all of the lines are wire, you want to make sure that everything connects to what it should, only the 1 resistor, and 1 lead from the transister actualy connect to the DB9 pins.

 

my bad, this picture displays my question better, but i think ive pretty well got it....I was wondering if all the parts would actually fit inside the DB9 housing, im pretty sure they do. Can i buy these at radio shack? They're not open now and i'm curious but cant call !



If im reading this right, im going to need 1 transistor, and 2 resistors.

Heres how i think it should work, 2 resistors, one transistor. (sorry kinda had to photoshop alitlle, and my heart just wanst in it, R2 you see...) Right? What kind of wire do i use? i know very little about electronics, sorry for the 20 questions.

 

even though radioshack isnt a real electronics store anymore they should have jsut about everything you need. Check online, they can tell you if a store near you has stuff in stock or not.

 

every radio shack i have ever been too.

(yes i am blessed and there are like 17 of them withing 15 miles me ) have carried DB9 connects, resistors and transistors. then just buy a roll of wire (i think used something in the range of 18-22 guage, but its been a long time.

 

I got all of the stuff needed for assembling the cable, besides shrink wrap, ill get that after i know it works, make it look all nice and professional .

After i know it works.....new problem.

Originally i was planning on using my dads laptop for the data logging. Well my dad has this thing about every idea i have, that they're bad ones and something will go wrong.

He wont let me use the laptop b/c he's afraid that something will get 'fried'. I tell him, not gonna happen, he dont listen. Has anyone ever heard of a powersurge from a aldl port causeing someones laptop to fry? b/c i havent and i'd be interested to know if its possible.

OK, new idea, we have tons of crappy computers lying around our house, but no other laptops, while datalogging do you have to do it during say a 1/4 mile run? or can i do it in my garage w/ the car in park hocked up to a normal comp? i would think its possible but the results will be much less accurate since it takes the car much less time to reach peak rpm w/o a load on the wheels. Let me hear your opinions once again, ill keep trying to talk him out of his pathetic excuses (unless you guys agree w/ him) thanks again
-chuck

 

you can data log anywhere. The value of the information youll get in the garage will be less useful then while driving, since you cant see any other loads besides idle or p/t revving. Basically youll be able to get it to start and idle nice but thats about it. If there are computer shows near you, which i suspect there are, you can get a decent running laptop for around 150 or so. Itll be slow and it wont do much else but itll data log. Hell, i got my PII 366 with a 15 in screen and 10 gig HD for $300 and that was almost three years ago.

 

Exactly what i thought, but doesnt matter much now.

My mom got on his back about being a jerk, "let him wreck his car if he wants" good ole mom. anyway, i also told him i'd buy him a new laptop if i wrecked it. It sounds promising. Im building the cable tonite (if i can find out which transistor hook-up is whcich ) then hopefully gonna start datalogging soon. Thanks for the heads up though dimented.

 

look at he back of the transistor box it shows which is which.

hope it works out, i picked up a CHEAP used laptop, just for datalogging and tuning, its a whopping P1-133 with 16MB of RAM.

but it does the job.

 

Looks like he's going to let me use it.

I have to wait till he gets back from wisconsin though, so the earliest I can start datalogging would be sunday.

Ill let you know how it goes.

 

Well i hocked up the cable to a comp w/ winaldl on it and tried to start datalogging in my garage just to see if it'd work.

no dice, what a drag.

Its not working, no info at all. I can think of 3 things.
1. The cable doesnt work, ill attribute this to the fact i did a really shotty job putting it together, im bad at soldering and didnt spend enough time on it. Ill make another tonite and give it another shot. (after all its what $1.50 worth of parts?)
2.ECM number, i searched the boards and came up with the number 1228063. Win aldl doenst have this # but it does have one that is xxxxxxx,1228062. Im thinking typo somewhere so this is the one ive been using. Am i right or is this my problem?
3.Wrong cable. I dont think its this but never know. here is a quote from the aldl site "On some computers it is possible to use the DTR pin on the serial port as 12 Volt source, and that is what I did."
Question is: are you guys running with an external power supply? or doing what he did. If you're doing what he did is this what your cable looks like?
(please specify any extra cables that are there or any that are ommitted on yours)

Thanks, ill see how the new cable works either tonite or most likely tomorrow.
-chuck

 

your computer (if its an 89) is the 8746

 

yea, stupid me didnt think to check the read me!

my money is on that cable, im remaking it soon. I've got a few questions, look at the diagram, are any of you using R3? and is anyone using an auxillary power sorce? is this the same diagram as what you followed to make your cables?
once again thanks,
-chuck

 

ME TOOO!!!! :lala: