It seems to be the trend that anyone stuck with an LO3 buys a 383 with TBI and uses that to defend the argument of "TBI vs. (insert any possible fuel delivery)". However, there are those who mod the crap out of L03's and hold their own. Well, I'm curious. What's the best quarter time or dyno that your L03 TBI cranked out? What setup?

 

times in sig. stock heads, cam, intake, and stock bore TBI. Im hoping to be hitting consistant 14.6s when i get to test the car with the new tranny and torque converter. A 14.5xx would be nice to. New times on Jan 1st if it doesnt rain.

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=201274
That thread was on a similar topic, you can see some interesting TBI numbers there...

I pulled a 15.3@87mph out of my girl with nothing more than a 40 series flowmaster. Probly take some tweaking to get her to do it again but it'd be purely just tuneing it back up to spec!

Bruce (90RS305)

 

not to burst your bubble, but thoes who mod the crap out of them are still slow, and as a L03 owner, i think im fair in saying that...

theres ALOT of stock cars, even FWD ones that will take you from a stop, and even more that will from a roll. even when modded.


plus your question brings up the question, when you mod it that much, is it still a L03 or just a modded TBI 305?

 

i dont consider my car to be slow, ill probably be in the mid 14s when i get it to the track in a new weeks and it is still a STOCK L03 because nothing has been done to the engine. I spent alot of money modding my car but most of that was in the suspension and transmission because they both had 150K+ miles on them. Other than my 3.73s and posi i dont have many significant mods.

 

i guess another thing that comes to mind is how you define fast, quick, slow, ect.....


for a 3rdgen, IMO, 14seconds is slow. for on honda civic its quick. *shrug*

 

Mine are in the sig. They were with nothing but an open element and advanced timing.

 

MrDude_1:
yes, there are people who mod the crap out of an LO3 and still have a slow car. considering the L03 is a notoriously horrible SBC in terms of power, with all the best mods (except for say changing heads or cam), the likes of a Toyota Supra or Honda Prelude has a good chance of getting you off the line (or roll), along with most imports (and newer domestics, lol). Which i don't mind, because if my 700R4 was geared to top out at about 120-140 MPH, like most new cars are, i would probably destroy those cars (though i'd get about 15 MPG). anyways, this is beyond the point. were I looking for people with really fast 305's, i believe i would of made this post on the TPI board. And is it a L03 after mods? Yep. Cause it's still the same old horrible L03 block. And though a mid to low 14 is horrible for a 3rd gen, it's pretty impressive for a L03 block.

 

block is the same, a 305 is a 305 is a 305. the heads and cam are what seperate TPI cars, put the same heads and cam in an LO3, i am willing to bet money it beats the TPI car down the track.

 

its not the power, its the design. the bore shrouds the valves, low compression, smallest cam, sh!tty heads, lowrise intake, restrictive stock throttlebody, restrictive manifolds... the whole thing needs to be replaced before it makes power... if you are happy with a slow car, keep it reliable, and close to stock. if you want to go fast, you'll basicly need a diffrent block, crank, pistons, rods, heads, cam, intake, and exhaust... and the assoc parts to go with it. *shrug* pointless argument though.


this doesnt make sence. you're probly a noob to the car world (hell you're talking about fast L03s *chukle* ) so i'll explain why.

1st off, if you take the speed limiter off, you'll find that your avg L03/700r4 with a 2.73 rear CAN go 120+.. takes forever to get there though.

now of you want to be faster, you'll be LOWERING your top speed.

think of a bicycle... if you make it really easy to pedal, you can only pedal so fast.... but you get to that speed quick.
if you make it harder, it takes longer to get up to that speed, but eventually, you're pedaling as fast as you can, but going faster then when it was easy to pedal.

high numeric numbered gears is like making it easy to pedal.. if you can hook, and want to whomp people off the line, then you use high number gears.. like 3.73s or 4.10s..... but your engine turns faster, for the same given speed... so you get less MPG.


if you want to have a high top speed, then you usually have to go to a lower number... like 2.73..... then you have a higher top speed, and better MPG, but its a dog off the line.


all that is a moot point with a good 6spd or other big overdrive.... then you can run 4.10s and still get MPG by going into overdrive.





there arnt any really fast N/A ones there either. and stock TPI isnt that great either... it just sucks less.



like it was said, the block is one and the same... the shortblocks are similar if not identical... its mainly the cam, heads and induction thats diffrent.

 

i know my car will top out higher than freaking 120 mph. i have a stage one chip from tbichips.com. i know it removed the governer at 115 mph. what i'm saying is that most hondas top out (as in red-lining in 5th gear) at 120-140 mph, whereas a 700R4 would have to be moving at like something crazy like 180 to top out like that. they (hondas) are geared ridiculously high. i know the concept of ratios. we are arguing the same point, that if you have higher ratios (like most imports and newer domestics) you will be quicker. you simply misinterpreted what i said.
also, i know L03's aren't fast. had you actually READ most of my post, you would of noticed that i said without changing, durr...the CAM and HEADS....durr....you weren't gonna get much power out of the L03, directly implying that the stock ones AREN'T GOOD.
yes, however, an L03 block is distinctive. just like a 5.7 L GM Goodwrench block is not the same freaking block as an 5.7 LS6. an L03, regardless of cam, heads, whatever, is not going to put out the same amount of torque as a similarly equipped LB9 305. Proven fact.

anyways,
the purpose of this thread was to see how far people have actually gone with an L03 setup. obviously, nobody's gonna exactly be cranking out 400 hp at the wheels with the L03. i just think it's cool to see people who go against the grain with stuff like this, cause usually they're pretty creative and their setups are cool to see.

yes, there are people who have actually got high 12's out of 305 tpi-based setups (quite obviously not the stock TPI setup). don't believe me? search the threads.

not p.o.'d or anything, just annoyed because you lectured without actually reading my post.

 

The actual block of an LO3 and an LB9 are the exact same things. The blocks of any 305's are identical in every way. The difference between LB9's and LO3's are the cam, heads, exhaust, and obviously induction.

They were just pointing out that an LO3 with the same heads, cam and exhaust as a LB9 would be just as fast as the TPI engine if the ONLY difference was TPI and TBI.

 

but, the cam and heads are what make it a L03.... because....




this statement is wrong.... heck the blocks are even the same casting.... the 305 is the 305 is the 305... same bore, same stroke... possibly diffrent compression thruout the years, but they're the same block.... this leads to my next point....




they'l be close...now you're in the TPI Vs TBI arguement.. given same heads, cam, and a decient intake for the TBI, by the nature of soley THE TPI ITSELF it will make slightly more TQ.. but it will be close.... the diff between a TBI, and carb would be almost nill... except the carb should keep pulling at higher RPMs.... but thats another debate, off topic.


while some guys have gone all out with the TBI stuff, i think thats what you want to get at..... just pointing out that if you swap the cam/heads/intake, its NOT a L03 anymore... its a 305 roller small block with whatever on it... *shrug*






i already covered this:



read your post.... while it might have been bad wording with the gearing, quitefrankly, your'e mistaken on the L03 being a diffrent block.... i hate misinfo.




i think the REAL the purpose of this thread was to see what you could do with your L03 since you dont want to/cant swap motors to somthing else...

so my advice stays the same.. even if it takes 2 years, you're better off saving and spending your cash on a diffrent larger bore block to start from then modding a 305..... esp heads and cam... because any decient heads just wont fit on the 305.. the valves hit the deck of the block.... so you would be handicapping your new motor with thoes heads later... and the cam will be a lil on the small side for the new motor, so you'll be getting another one of thoes too..



and its not like im talking out of my *** either.... i went thru a year of penny scrapeing while driving this slow L03 before i dove into a new motor too.... its worth it... because even a hardcore 305 a guy like wille would tell you... if you want to go fast, and you have a budget, its cheaper to goto a diffrent block.

 

I know that my you will say that it is supercharged and now not currently street legal, however I did get a 12.9 out of my L03 with a paxton and some tuning, this is with a stock cam and heads. I bought this car new and had to run with the original 5.0 mustangs on the street. I never lost to any **** and most thought I was running a 350. The key to beating the 5.0 was good traction off of the line and I used to run Mickey Thompson pro streets to do this.

You can make good power with the LO3 but it is not easy and putting the same power adders on a 350 will net more power. However I have always enjoyed letting losers know that they lost to a 305!

MD

 

okay, you have twisted this argument beyond hope. i love it when people who have like 500 posts or more assume that they know that someone with 100 or less posts is completely new to chevys and is trying to be a cheap a$$ and assume they can make their car really fast for almost free. *ANNOUNCEMENT* This Message board is not the mecca of all knowledge related to chevys. no, 'dude', i didn't start this thread to attempt to find a setup that was going to be unbelievable for a 305. i'm swapping mine out for LS1 (which before you assume and lecture saying that i don't know the amount of cash and time that's involved in a crazy swap like that, yes i know it's crazy) when i get money (which before you say it, is going to be a while, i know). however, as i said in my last post, i think it's interesting. i suggest you read the thread on the link that 90RS305 posted. the guy there would of drove you insane. he supercharged a 2.8 and got like 400 horses out of it. very impractical, probably could of spent the cash on a decent 383 stroker setup or a very nice 350 H.O. setup. but nevertheless, it was pretty awesome and interesting, and he probably surprised quite a few v-8's on the street and at the track, lol. and definitely unique. but i guess he must of started a thread called "Best time or dyno with a 2.8?" and then copied somebody else's setup or something, *chuckle*.

 

*shrug*

i like TTAs, GNs, SHOs, all kinds of highly efficent vs displacement motors.......

thats not the issue... but whatever, this thread was pointless and over before it started... do a short search and you'll find 4 billion other threads like this....

along with just as many saying they'll do a LS1 or (insert better motor here) swap when they get the money..


not trying to take it to a personal level, but since you're already "in my head" and "know what i think sucks"....


displacment isnt everything... sure it helps, but a more efficent smaller motor CAN make more power then a in efficent larger motor.... im not talking ***** extremes.... im talking about stuff like the 302 chevy.... its a HELL of alot better then a 305.... even though its slightly smaller...

 

*shrug* *shrug* *chuckle* *head explodes....just kidding* if i was doing RESEARCH i would of searched the threads. since i am not, i was just interested in feedback, so i started this thread. i wasn't charging you with having something against small displacement engines, simply impractical ideas. the 2.8 idea was impractical.
and yes, i too see um...all these people talking about swapping LS1's or 'Better' (when you say better, i assume you mean like, LS6 or maybe ZR-1, considering that those are amoung the few engines that are "better" than an LS1) ....indeed, hundreds of them! why, in fact, it's so common, you can't even go into the engine swap forum anymore without SOMEBODY surely saying "i'm jumping on the bandwagon and swapping an LS1/LS6. heck, everyone else is doing it!". really, it almost UNCOMMON to see somebody swap something like an LT1 or 383 or 350, because there are so many of those darn LS1 swappers.
and they ALWAYS say "when they get the money." i mean, honestly, what is up with that? really, don't most people run around with like $10K in their pockets? surely, most people just have it sitting around in their house. what kind of LOSER works to save up money for an engine, when everyone else just has the money immediately!
i'm not arguing for small displacement. i just wanted to see some creativity, because i appreciate it. everyone on the TBI board knows that if they're completely stock, they're stuck with a less than impressive V8. we don't need a grouch to come in here and mock and gloat about how the stock RS setup is a lost cause.

 

Wow, this is the most heated thread I've read in the TBI board in a long time. I understood his question perfectly, and I understand everybody else's points as well.

Of course once the heads and cam are removed from the motor for the sake of improvement, is the motor still an LO3? yes and no. It really just depends on your outlook on things. . . are you one who looks to where they've been, or are you one who looks to where they're going . . . yadda, yadda, yadda.

Yes this question has been asked in many different forms before, however, I have no problem answering the same question once every 3 months (it keeps my post count going up ).

and to finish, I don't think my sig showed up, so I believe my numbers were 183 hp and 263 tq. That was with 8* of advanced timing and a open K&N element. Those numbers might be off, because I sometimes get numbers switched in my head.

Anyways, Merry Christmas from Afghanistan yall.:lala:

 

merry christmas gunner! and i'm assuming you're in the service, so i gotta tell ya that you're awesome:hail: ! that's pretty impressive dyno for just timing and open element. i'm assuming that's at the flywheel?

 

Yeah, it was at the flywheel, calculating for 20% loss throught my AOD drivetrain. I don't know, maybe 20% is too high and I'm not giving my drivetrain enough credit.

It really does feel faster than that though off the line due to my Spohn suspension set up and my 3.23 posi. I've done some other stuff since (ie Dynomax cat-back), but I was deployed before I got to put my headers on. They're still sitting in the box in my living room. But when I get out of this place, I'm going nuts with my combat pay. <--no reason to smile though, I still don't get paid jack

 

Agreed. This is now one of my boards, so lets try to keep it on topic! I'd love to see what some of my fellow LO3's are pushing as well, and I'd hate to have to lock this one open another thread...
And yes, MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!! :yourock:

Bruce (90RS305)

 

With the possible exception of the SHO (never looked into it for sure), they are not more efficient, they just have more air stuffed into them.

Um, a real 302 (as in old DZ…)? I'd take the 302 and sell it (worth much more $$$ then it is performance wise, and personally could care less about the value) and then get a 305, 307, 350… to play with (depending on price and what I plan on doing with it) and tons of parts/toys.

Why swap one set of crappy heads for another set of crappy heads??? As far as that goes the L03's swirl ports at least have a reason for existing… I can't come up with a really good argument for the existence of most of the rest of the 305 and 350 heads that GM built between '87 and 92.

The reason that TPI cars tend to be faster is mostly because they're more likely to have "the good cam," decent gears and came with a better exhaust.

As for the rest of the discussion what I think makes an L03 an L03 is the intake/TBI configuration, who cares what you did to the heads… How did it work? I don't see people having these arguments about TPI or LT1… cars when they've put AFR heads, a 396 bottom end and all aftermarket intake/exhaust components on them…

 

ummm, i think we all know what the DZ 302 was. you know, to have as many posts as you do, a man would be inclined to think you know more than you do. maybe you do know alot and just mouth off too much. have a nice day! lmfao

 

intake efficency.

 

with the exeption of the SHO's, the rest are turbo cars, of couse they are going to have better 'intake efficency'

also the SHO's engine is entirely diffrent that ours. heck that is like me comparing the 190hp of my 2.3L audi to the L03's. they are two entirly diffrent engines. maybe if i put port injection, dual over head cams, 4 valve/cyl heads on, ect, then we could compare efficency numbers.

 

**EDIT** Please be a little more PG with your posts, I know you can cuz' you usually have a lot of good advice here! **EDIT**

im saying i dont care how the power is made as long as theres power there.. it doesnt have to be a V8.





and how is the SHO entirely diffrent? sure its tweeked a lil, but if you spent the time to make a switchable dual runner length TPI setup, you could have the same effects..... theres nothing on that motor thats magic. its just well designed


(and the 305 isnt.)

 

*EDITED*

about is it a LO3 or not compared to LT1 or not (read what 83 Crossfire TA said)

if there was 30 diff 2ndgen SBC motors like there are 1st, then YES, it would be diffrent... but as a common term saying LT1 is like saying 2nd gen SBC....

theres the smaller caprice one.. and the LT4... and im sure there may be others i dont know about... now if you had several of them.. and they all shared the same block and bottom end, and you wanted to go off of GM engine names and then started switching parts.... the same argument would apply.




furthermore, i wouldnt mind a modded 305 as a performance daily driver.... if it had a roots blower on it..... set it up for decient economy, and have a bypass...... get nice fuel economy, and get good power when at and near WOT..... but thats also besides the point.






and sorry for bypassing the filter, but i think it got my point across... read what im responding to... i know you guys love readin my posts an all, but damn, read what im replying to too....

 

Yea… I guess that I don't know squat…

And how exactly is offering you exactly what you asked for as proof "mouthing off?" I could have just told you to go **** off and left that at that. For that matter, I believe that it's only considered mouthing off if it is to someone's superior...

 

first off, i dont recall saying you dont know squat. as a matter of fact, i believe i said maybe you do know alot. as for the mouthing off, since you didnt seem to get it, plz allow me to explain my remark. you speak as if you know it all, and that is the first sign of stupidity. hey, i used to be that way, till i reallized i was making an *** of myself, and not opening my mind to different theories that more often then not, were correct, proving me absolutely wrong. the truth hurts, but listen to it and you might add a little more to your already amazing intellect. *snickers* yes, you could have told me to ****off, but your were too hung up on yourself to realize I WAS insulting you. i would have told you to ****off. but thats the difference between someone who knows everything and someone who is willing to learn more. so, with that being cleared up....****off. have a nice day
btw, i dont recall you proving anything either...hmmm...
and dont bother retorting cause im through with you...

 

This thread hasn't gone completely south yet, but it's on its way there. Please don't make me close this thread! I've learned quite a bit from reading it and I hope there is more info on the topic to come! I know all of you can do that for me.

Bruce (90RS305)

 

14's are slow for a thied gen???

that is so sad then cause my L-98 only pulls:

16.11's and it's got 3 mod's....


1. M-A-F swapped for M-A-P.

2. Open element cone filter.

3. 3" straight exHaust.

My 87 GTA with,350TPI,700r4,3.23's:120K miles.

16.11@88.9mph......

My 91 GTA with 350TBI 700r4 3.73's:190k miles.

14.86@95.78mph....


ya i'd have to say I'll take TBI over TPI any time..

TPI has more break down's.....

it might have been i just got few fluke car's but my 87 Z-28 335TPI
only ran 15.40's and broke down offten.....All TPI failure's.....

 

my L03 does 16.00 rather consistantly... 2.73s, pegleg, 120k and all....
yes you should stick to TBI... cause it looks like you donno what you're doing with TPI...


TBI and SD TPI have the exact same parts..... theres nothing one has that the other doesnt.

 

I think GM did us all an injustus by keeping the 3.48in stroke and going to a 3.75in bore. If they had just keep the bore 4.00in for all their V8 blocks, with the exception of the 4.125 for the 400ci, then we probably wouldn't be having the perverbial conversation of junking the 305 for a larger 350 or 383 or 400. I personally would love to build a 302. I think the performance potential is much greater than the 305. Less valve shrouding, better rod to stroke ratio, higher rpm potential. And as far as a stock setup is concerned, it should make as good as or better hp and torque. Heck I think I would reather have a 283 or a 307 over a 305.
Untill someone makes a cheap DOHC four valve/cylinder head for our 305 blocks I'll just have to go with more displacement.

Steve

 

EXACTLY.

you hit the nail on the head.

 

only thing that differ's the the Induction one is centerally injected other is muilti piont injected Not that hard......

Your prolly right TPI dose suck...........Dosen't breath much after 4,500 rpm......

a plain jan base modle AMX with a 343 4spd ran mid 13's stock on poly glass tire's........yet third gen's with EFY and radail's can barly hit mid 15's-mid 14's...................

...... ........... ............

80's technology Go figure.......Lmfao.......

my stock LO-3 ran 15.80's stock with a 3.73 gear swap and 235/60r15 tires it ran 15.40's.....

 

But Guy's it;s all in people's opion's so there ain't much you can do people will think what they think.....

Maybe your Right and TBI is my calling.............

But my old LB-9 that i made a 335 stroker not only ran faster then my L-98........

but it took a few of early stock Lt-1's street racing............

I built a 406TBI that is Turning awsome dyno Run's.....

I set up a TBI ststem the Made a 390AMC power and AMX into the 9.60's..........And run 9.60's consistant for 6+ year's......

But yeah i must be stupid...................

just some " stupid thrid gen driving Hick "........ You mat as well come right out and say it.....or Maybe " I;m just white trash driving a Mullrt mobile'" well i don;t have a ****** and It aint' a camaro........ and I think that was a second gen f-body image....

 

Ramair, are you using your 87GTA as a tipical L98 thirdgen? My 86 LB9 ran a 15.80 which is no big deal but it wouldn't shift into third(auto). I'd say your 87 needs more tuning. It sould be in the mid to low 14's.

Steve

 

It eun's like a brand new motor.....

it still need's a lot of work.......

I know it "should" be a mid 14 car But it ain't.........

But it's shiney and run's awsome it's just slow.......

MODIFICATIONS I WOULD LIKE TO DO:

1.complete tune up. (Hasn’t had one since 1989)

2. EDELBROCK INTAKE AND RUNNERS.

3.52mm TB.

4.MSD IGNITION UPGRADES.

5.HEADERS.

6.NICE DUAL EXHAUST.

7.3.73 GEARS.

8.B&M FILTER KIT SHIFT IMPROVER.

9.CUSTOM BURNED CHIP.

10.255/55r16'S.

11.CAN SHAFT UPGRADE. (292*DUR.525LIFT).

12. UPGRADE HEAD'S.

13.NICE 10.2-10.6:1 C/R.

Now all of this should wake this old beast up.

Prolly all it really could use is just the first 7 thing's done.......

But #1 & #7 will be done first.....

A complete tune up and the 3.73 gear's just cause i have them part's......
Then it will get parked till i can do the intake MSD upgrade then i'll drive it a bit then do the exhaust Then by that time it'll be time to take one last Ride then Put it way for winter.......

 

WRT to tuning that is pretty much true. The biggest real difference is that TPI has 8 smaller injectors which make it easier to upgrade to feed more HP, where TBI has 2 larger ones located centrally that has some advantage WRT to detonation control and mpg.

I couldn't disagree with you more.

From a combustion and efficiency standpoint smaller bores have big advantages over larger ones, and the only real advantage that a larger bore has is WRT to valve shrouding. The correct solution is to keep the smaller bore (unless you have no other way to get the required displacement) and design better heads. GM did that in later years… this is pretty much the deal with the LS* and related engines, small bores and killer heads. You can do the same with your 305 by slapping a set of vortec heads. Out of the box they'll flow over 220cfm with a 3.736" bore, which is enough to feed a 305 up to the low 7000rpm range and make something in the 470hp range, on cheap pump gas.

I'll see a point in DOHC heads when it becomes cheap to run more then 7000rpm with a small block. The fact is that there are plenty of mild, street heads that will flow in the mid to high 200cfm range, so why would anyone actually need a set of DOHC heads? To make their engine bigger and heavier? Less reliable? I know, for marketing reasons (the only real reason why ford has the mod motor). Sorry, I'll stick with a good set of OHV heads.

TPI doesn't suck… people just don't understand it.

There is no really good reason for a TPI setup to stop breathing after 4500rpm, the reason that happens is because of the crappy heads that were used on those engines. TPI is not low end biased as the rumor goes… it is actually midrange biased with a harmonic tuning point in the mid 3Krpm range. With better heads on a 305 you'd see a second tuning point in the mid to high 5Krpm range…

You want brutal low end? Drive an '82-84 crossfire car. I own both, and my 305 crossfire is much more fun to drive from a stop light then my L98. The crossfire car has so much more low end that you'd swear that it should beat the L98 at the track until you take them both and find that once you get past the low end that is so fun on the street there isn't much up top, and the TPI feels like a screamer up top in comparison to the crossfire.

Considering what they were working with, the constraints because of the costs associated with actually using newer technologies and the sudden changes in regulations and standards that the cars had to deal with, I am much more impressed with the technology and it's application in the '80's cars then I am those made since the mid 90's.

You'll be surprised how far off most of the chips are from the factory… once you get the basics right, play with fuel pressure some. You'll find that by the time you set it to run fastest you've changed it enough that it will not run right at idle.

There is little point to doing either of these unless you put significangly better heads on it first. Runners on the stock intake are the biggest restriction flowing in the 200cfm range, where you're lucky if the stock heads flow 170…

Are you running a power adder? Assuming that you did the tune up right you will not gain anything here.

All good calls, but I woudn't go with duals unless you're doing it for sound… with the f-body packaging you're much more likely to get a good flowing setup going with the stock configuration

Damned fine way of breaking your tranny. Personally, make sure that you've got it adjusted right… if you still need harder shifts go with a transgo, or maybe just a bigger TV bushing and 'vette servo.

That's a lot of cam… probably too much for most TPI setups. I wouldn't choose a cam before doing the heads if you're doing the heads.

this should be much sooner on the list.

 

I totally agree. Hell, my tranny guy refuses to install the B&M shift kits and he won't warrenty anything with them installed. He's been working on trannies for 25 years, and has more certifications hanging on his wall than I can count.

I went with the vette servo and Transgo kit, and believe me, it's the perfect blend for my "inspired" daily driver.

If I remember correctly, the B&M kit creates harder shifts by increasing the pressure inside the tranny. This is done by giving the fluid less holes(not sure of the official name) to flow through. This is different from the Transgo kits which use springs to firm up the shifts. I think that's how it goes, but I'm no tranny expert. Plus it's been a while since I finished my tranny.

 

I think next year I may be able to squeeze into the high 13's.

 

give it a hair more cam, and you're there for sure

 

it's an 87 car isn't worth more $750 buck's even tho i paid $3,000 for it, old POS beat around screw off car..all it's for.......

And the list is Just made as stuff i'd like to do within the next 2 year's if it should live so long not sure if it but it might.....I haven't had any luck with 350's long live's....

list wasn't done in order........
just randumly listed them........

I'll Prolly just tune it up throw the 3.73's in with the 255/55R16's and Drive till it Die's..........

is what has a 95% chance of happening..........

Don't give me the BS of it won't breath Cuase at this I have No Cares of that...............

 

heh, yea… my opinion on B&M shift kits is if you don't care about the tranny, only need it to last a few thousand more miles and just want some decent track use out of it then great. Personally, that attitude doesn't make sence considering how expensive 700r4 rebuilds are…

the 'vette servo is part of the transgo kit, as is a larger TV bushing. What's nice about the transgo is that it also fixes a few shortcomings with the stock valve bodies on top of giving you firmer shifts… but if you trust what you got from the factory (personally, I've had better luck with the earier valve bodies then the later ones, even though the later ones are supposed to be better) then just do the servo and bushing. As far as I'm concerned, if you've already made that big a mess I'd rather spend a couple $ more and install the whole transgo setup (minus the pump springs…)

The big difference is that B&M raises line pressure all the time to give you firmer shifts which puts too big a load on a lot of the parts and later on you get stuck diagnosing blown piston seals and warped drums. Transgo mostly gives you firmer shifts by replacing the pistons and bushings with larger parts which exert more force from the same fluid pressure, so the rest of the tranny doesn't have to tolerate higher pressures (though it does also reroute some of the fluid flow through the valve body).

 

Heh… I picked up my '87 Formula 350 with 70K miles for a profit…. The guy had it sitting under his deck for 6 years because he couldn't get it started, and when I showed up with any cash ($1300, less then half of what he had it advertised for) his wife made him take it. 15min later I DROVE the supposedly non running car onto the trailer and left with a long bed dually pickup bed FULL of spare parts, including 2 sets of Koni's, the original, at the time 16y/o wheels and tires which were stored in the attic so they wouldn't rot, 2 of every sensor (from him trying to diagnose his no start), 2 aftermarket exhausts…. I immediately sold off some of the spares for $1000 and spent $34 for a gasket set putting me "in the car" for $334. Later I sold some of the other stuff for a total of $1200, so basically I got paid $866 to take the car, and still have most of the aftermarket parts, 2 sets of wheels and tires…

Funny, I bought the car as a parts car for my '83 TA and now it's become sorta a daily driver (more fun then my '97 or truck…).

Late this winter I'm hoping to be looking for a new 3rd gen body (someone hit the formula bending the frame and doing some irreparable damage, I did some quick work and it looks good, but will never be "right") that I'll swap the drivetrain (with some minor tweaks ) and interior into, which are both just about perfect.

 

WRT=?
Yah, I know about the LS series engines using smaller bores, thats all good as you said, because GM did their homework on the heads. Thats what I was getting at with the 4valve head example. Most cheap good flowing heads have 2.02 valves with the exception of the vortecs or WP 305 torquers. Even though it's possible to run 2.02 valves on a 305 it really isn't practical. If you can find a good set of L98 aluminum heads and do a little bowl work on them they would make a great set of heads for a 305. With about a 10.5/1 cr and a decent cam, singleplain intake, headers and lots of tuning it should make some good HP/TQ numbers. I don't think anyone ever said the 305 has no potential, just not as much as a 302 or any larger bore sbc. It does great for the intended purpose it was designed for, to make decent torque and get decent mileage. I don't think GM ever intended for it to be a real performance engine.

Oh, one other thing, when someone builds a streetable 470hp NA 305 I want to read about it in a good magazine like GM Hightech Perfomance.

Steve

 

How say's when the tranny goe's i'll rebuild it????
who say's I just won't up crush it???.........

Car is an 87 it's old and Tired...

Pluse I like look's of the 91/92 Bird's better so to me the 87 Even tho mint shape is just a Daily summer driver beater....

 

Hey Ramair, If the engine or tranny goes don't crush it just give me a call I'll come and take it off your hands.

Steve

 

I just might guy i just might...

 

With Respect To

Vortecs are good heads, WP heads are really sad without a lot of work, they are basically stock replacements. The vortec head is so good and so cheap (often cheaper then getting a set of crappy heads from the JY and getting them rebuilt) that I'm not really sure that there is a good argument for needing something else to choose from. Personally, I'll take the vortecs over many aftermarket heads.

heh… If I were going all out and really wanted to run a big head on a 305 I'd probably look into 18* heads (flatter valve angles let you get away with more…).

Why waste your time… the last time I saw a set of swirl port, L03 heads they were within 10cfm of the 'vette heads… Put $800 worth of valve job and porting into a set of 'vette L98 heads and you still have heads that flow 30cfm less then the box stock vortec heads (which will cost you less half as much). Really, some reasonable cleanup of a set of L69 or LU5 (early 3rd gen 305 heads) and you'll have a much better set of heads then you'll ever get out of the L69's, and it's not like there is any real demand for them, the last set I got had less then 10K miles on them and were on an engine that someone was THROWING OUT.

That's the thing… unless you're building something to rev over 7Krpm, I'd rather start with the 305.

The rules of what is streetable with a v8 seem to be different then other engines… If you need to rev it to 7Krpm, it makes no power under 3500rpm and idles at 1000rpm then it isn't streetable, otoh, if it's a 2L or smaller I4 then it's a fine street engine. For that matter, it's not that common for any size engine to be considered streetable at over 450hp. The only current NA engine that stands out is the viper V10, of course, that's bigger then most big blocks. Assuming that you adhere to most normal standards of streetablility, there is no reason that a 302 will make any more power then a 305…

305's are just not nearly as bad an engine as people want them to be.

Hey ramair… when you've wasted the engine and tranny in that GTA that thing would make a perfect "replacement body" for my '87 Formula 350…