And the news is not good. a piece of a ring broke off, and pretty much killed most of the pistons and the bores. The worst part......the block that was supposed to be bored .030 was actually .060 over. So lucky me gets to look for a 1 piece 4 bolt main 350 block in good condition.

Thankfully, the scat crank is still good.

The valves were burned, indicating either too much timing or not enough fuel, or a combo of both. HOWEVER, we did find that the guy that built the engine cheaped out and used a standard timing chain which had quite a bit of play in it, which probably attributed to the problem.

Though, the burned valves do worrie me that there was a possible fuel shortage.....My 02 readings always read good, but I was also using a bosch sensor. This go around, I'm going with a delco, as well as a wideband on the passenger side header. I will probably go with holley's efi fuel regulator as well, adjustable from 15-65psi.

 

Well, both bad and good news

Were there any indications of mixture distribution problems?

The wideband will be a worthwhile investment.

Are you still considering upgrading to the 7060?

Does the reg you are considering have vac ref? If so, you might want to look into something with vac compensation, such as this cal:

http://www.efitune.com/forum/index.p...=ST&f=17&t=98&

While you're at it, you might as well grab a 400 block and a hydraulic roller cam

 

Well, the number 6 was the worst bore, but all of the valves were burned. I think most of the problem was the weak/ loose timing chain used last time. Because of that thing, I always had knock no matter where the base timing was-and thus used a dummy sensor. Probably ran too much advance a time or two, i dunno.

I have the hyd roller cam-it's still in very nice condition as are the lifters, roller rockers and what not.

Hehe....I was actually thinking about the 400 idea......
Unfortuantly, I just purchased an SLP billet steel flywheel ($$$) for a 1 piece rear main seal. Also would need to go with a hyd roller retro fit for the cam. Other problem is finding a block in good condition

I'm actually having a hard enough time finding a 350 4 bolt main w/ 1 piece seal. I'm hoping to find one that hasn't been bored over yet.

The regulator is not vacuum referenced, but hopefully I can dig up the part # you sent me on yours, as it is looking as though I may need to run some serious pressure at WOT.

I haven't decided what to do computer wise yet.....I want to stick with gm and a 2bbl tbi in hopes of making serious times and getting in a mag, but the holley 950 is sooo attractive in price in consideration autoprom, 7060 swap, regulator, and airflow ( wish I had a 2.2" tbi!!!)

 

Didn't realize that you had a hydraulic roller

Put a single plane on too

If you need a core for a 2.2" TB, let me know. Also, I have no need for my GM vac ref fpr. I'm using an external now.

 

Actually, I plan on going with an external one as well, though I'm having a hard time finding vacuum referenced ones.

I was lucky that the cam came out of the mess without a scratch! It would have been another setback to have to spend another $200+ on one.

I'm going to stick with the rpm airgap, for two reasons. 1st and foremost, money. It's ashame the vortec intakes are so expensive, and still reletively limited. 2nd- I know where the rpm airgap had me powerwise, which is very impressive. Given more time and money however, I would have to try a single plane, especially after the positive results you have had.

However, Popular Hot Rodding did a dyno tests on the edelbrocks vs. a ported victor jr, and had very positve results so who knows.

I may start looking into the 2.2" tbi's and a custom adapter plate. I'd really like to throw the holley pod on one as well. I've shaved the base considerably, as well as the stupid support legs, which has basically left only the small diameter pods as the only restriction.


BTW, when you ran the external regulator, did you just plug the return line on the tbi, and use the hose for the external one?

 

sounds like you were running to much timing or a compression ratio higher than you thought inducing a detnation problem. I think a chain with too much stretch would retard the timing not advance it to cause a detnation problem.

 

Sloppy chain usually causes spark scatter.

 

Here's your regulators:

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=239707


I gutted my stock reg and fabricated a cap and gasket to replace the diaphragm and spring can. The original feed line to the TB is the same as original. I installed the external reg on my ESC bracket (eliminated it with 7060 install). Fabbed a hose from the return side of the TB to the external reg and hooked the return side of the external reg to the stock return line.

Don't get hung up on the mag tests. Remember, you're dealing with TBI, not a carb. The airgap style manifold may be causing you puddling problems in the plenum. TBI needs some heat in the plenum to work properly.

Dual planes are a compromise. They are designed to overcome the low vac signal problem that carbs have. You don't have that problem with TBI.

Truthfully, you won't need the 2.2" bore TB if you go with a single plane. Dual planes need a larger carb (TB) than a single plane. With a dual plane, each cylinder can only draw 50% of the available airflow (cfm). Single plane allows each cylinder to draw 75% of available airflow.

The amount of airflow increase I experienced from going from the dual plane air gap to the single plane was exponential.

Just pretend the dual plane was damaged along with the pistons, etc, to justify spending the extra $$

 

lol

Well, the way I was running the rpm airgap made for a half a$$ single plane. The divider in the intake already sits about 3/4" or so lower than the carb mounting, an using the open adapter plate adds another 3/4" of roughly 1 1/2" of open plenum. I'm going to slightly work the divider as well, so instead of squaring off, it will be more of an upside down " V ".

Some interesting info on the air gap as well, as described in Popular Hot Rodding. After roughly 10 minutes, the runner temps equal that of a standard performer manifold. However, after 15-20 seconds of WOT, both intake's runners cool, however the airgap's are 15-20 degrees cooler from 2,500rpm to 5,500rpm . The article didn't state anything about plenum temps though.


For the regulator, I was planning on doing what you are as far as fabbing a block off plate and gasket for the origional regulator. However, I was wondering If I could just block the return on the tbi, running only the feed line. Then just running the feed in and out of the external regulator with a single return line also running from the external regulator

 

16-65 psi FPR ? what pressure were you running and what size injectors? I assume a 2.00 holley or GM.

 

Is this directed to me?

 

No. sorry directed to R90. my bad habit.

 

http://216.242.145.16/products/content_p.phtml?pk=12

http://216.242.145.16/products/content_p.phtml?pk=62

Here's some reading as to why you don't want static fp.

Others have done it as you have suggested, though.

 

Sorry for the delay guys-it's been bad knews. I thought I had found a good block, but both the cam and main bearings had been spun At this rate, I may just start looking into brand new gm performance blocks.....

Ronny, I'm running the holley 670 w/ 85pph delphis at 22.5psi. Keep in mind the delphis are rated at 21psi though (as confirmed by a holley tech). However, I am guessing I was going static-which may or may not have been from a bad o2-I'll know a little more when I get into chip tuning. Either way, using the equations, even at 26psi, my injectors aren't capable of the power levels I'm trying to achieve, so a pressure of around 35psi at wot is more realistic, and w/ vacuum regulator a psi of around 27 at idle should make tuning a little easier.


va454ss, I think you have finally talked me into a single plane! Though I really like the rpm airgap, further inspection yields that the divider only sits about 3/8" below the carb mount. Also I think distribution was a problem, judging from the damage to the old engine. This theory is olso breafly mentioned in the PHR article. It could be a combo of the intake and the adapter, I'm not sure, but either way, I'm currently fabbing a new adapter.

I have to start looking into manifolds, but I'm thinking something like the torker 2 would work pretty well. Alot of the boys at the local stock car track are running votec heads, small block, and single plane combos, with a very small and restrictive 2bbl carb. Not perfectly ideal, but it may help give ma an idea. Either way, I'm looking for a range of 2,500-6,500rpm, with the assumption tbi will help the powerband start closer to 1,500.

A lot of the change of heart came when I found out the deals my engine builder can get

 

Finally

Glad someone or something convinced you. I was beginning to think I was gonna need to give you an early Christmas present

Its odd that you mention the Torker II. A friend at the 454SS website is using that intake on a TBI project. He thought that the Torker II would work well with TBI because it has a small plenum. Do they make a Torker II that will work with the Vortec heads?

 

Well, unfortuantly it looks as though edelbrock does not make the torker 2 for vortecs.

I'm looking into the victor jr. series, but it appears the most streetable has a power band from 3,500-7,000rpm. Probably a little too high. Do you know off hand what your intake is "rated" at?

I know it has been said that tbi will help start the powerband roughly 1k rpm sooner than the carb ratings....

 

Thought maybe you found something I didn't. Actually, I had looked for the Torker II for your heads, but couldn't find it. Have you sourced other manufacturers?

Don't know the rating of my intake. As it is now, the manifold that Holley makes under the name "Street Dominator" is a dual plane. Not sure at what point they changed it over.

Bill

 

Well, believe it or not, the only streetable one I found by holley was the one intended for the multiport efi. I toyed with the idea of plugging the injector bosses and running tbi on top of it, but I'm not too sure on how well that would work, being as the intake is intended for a dry flow format. But it is definetely in the right rpm range-up to 6,500rpm.

I'm gonna keep searching though.

I may have to try to find the range of your intake. Following the success you have had with it, I would like to try to do the same and if it is rated at a higher range, then I may be able to use a victor jr.

 

I definitely don't believe my intake was rated as high as the Vic Jr. It is an old intake.

Weird you brought up the multipoint intake. I brought up the same subject at the 454SS website, but was referring to the Edel multipoint conversion manifold. General consensus was that it would work OK as a wet flow manifold.

Reason I brought up using that particular intake was using the mulitpoint injectors and the TBI injectors at the same time. The multipoint injectors would be my supplemental fuel for the Vortech SC.

Can other intakes be modified successfully to be used with your heads?

 

Unfortuantly not. I guess the vortecs have raised intake runners.
I did a search on ebay, mainly for ideas, and the only other single plane I could find was a professional product's single plane rated from 3,500-7,800.

I'll have to look at the multipoint efi intake again. Simply judging from appearence, it doesn't look too different from a standard carb intake. Maybe I can call holley, tell them I plan on running the 900cfm tbi system, and see what they say. I know they'ed have a heart attack if I was to tell them I was using the 670!

 

Features
2000-6000 RPM power band.
Designed for port fuel injection systems.
Accepts 1000 CFM Holley 4-bbl throttle body.
Single plane manifold design.

 

If they say its a bad idea, ask why. Only thing that concerns me is the isolated runners. I just can't get those iced up throttle blades outta my head!

 

weiand 7547 2000-6500 rpms(carb) ? i thought most of us run that one(me too). single plane low profile. have your considered larger GM injectors OR maybe they dont fit the holley pod? if they dont fit can a GM pod be placed on Holley TB?

 

Problem is my vortec heads. They require intakes specifically designed for the heads.

The GM injectors will not fit my injector pod, though a gm pod can be made to fit.
I am pretty stuck on the holley delphi pod. I have pretty much slimmed the part that runs between the bores to the front screw to nothing, leaving only the small diameter pods as the only restriction-well, of course the back of the pod as well. I have 85pph injectors, though they are rated at 21 psi, where as the 90pph gm injectors are rated at 12psi i believe. Needless to say, the gm injectors are capable of a much more flow at a lower psi, but the trade off is the bulky pod.

 

i did not read the post very well. i see vortec now.

 

[QUOTE.....
Ronny, I'm running the holley 670 w/ 85pph delphis at 22.5psi. Keep in mind the delphis are rated at 21psi though (as confirmed by a holley tech). However, I am guessing I was going static-which may or may not have been from a bad o2-I'll know a little more when I get into chip tuning. Either way, using the equations, even at 26psi, my injectors aren't capable of the power levels I'm trying to achieve, so a pressure of around 35psi at wot is more realistic, and w/ vacuum regulator a psi of around 27 at idle should make tuning a little easier.

what pressure is considered max by holley? is your FP pump adequate? i looked at holley 900 at nhra nationals(joliet) and it sure looks sweet. sequential opening of butterflies. seems like that is a great idea(sequential) as my 2.00 inch TB's can flow air faster than the ecu can compensate(AE) with 02 sensor downstream. that would aleviate your concerns of lack of injector capacity and lean. holley does not rate the 670 beyond 275 HP at 22 psi.

 

If your not going to run a K/S then you need to do alot of plug reading. With a very mild combo, you can rely pretty heavily on the K/S, but even when intially doing the tune using a K/S you still have to read the plugs to make sure your not suffering from tip-in preignition. The further you go from stock the less you can completely rely on the K/S, and the more you need to read the plugs.

 

Ronny, the catch on the holley rating is that the 275hp is with 65pph injectors as opposed to 85pph's. I have a walbro 255 high pressure pump. Not sure if there is a max on the injectors, but guys like va454ss are running 40+psi at WOT with the gm ones. I would assume holleys can do the same, the higher psi may cut down on life span though. I hear ya on the 900cfm unit though, it is very tempting and sweet. Do you plan on making it to 66 or byron for a Test and Tune night? We could meet out at the track sometime-it's always fun to hang out with other board members.

Thank you for the advice Grumpy. I did not know that. Though I did change the plugs pretty often (crappy accel header plugs), they generally showed a rich/ normal condition. But my guess is that it ran fine while cruising, which made for most of the miles, but had problems at WOT. What are the signs of tip-in preignition?

 

just got back from joliet. 333 mph in top fuel and funny car. i think some sort of record. now we head north on weekends(seasonal )to cabin. may go to union grove wis in fall to see how car runs. the guy that did my engine work(friend) runs regularly there. 455 buick stage 6.

 

oh i forgot. holley would NOT sell me the 670 with 85 lbs new. i wanted to pay for the unit and a little xtra $$ for swap or credit for removal of 68 lbs and they said NO. so 7.4 L GM is going in(next week?). i dont know why BUT when i increased FP on my 65 lbs up around 18 lbs i blew the old diaphragm. and then replaced with new and blew it as well. that was on startup/cranking. . still puzzles me.

 

That is wierd, I've never had a problem with the regulator diaphram.
I origionally bought the holley 670 502-5 for the old 305. Had to buy the 85pph seperately when I swapped to the 383. I know I saw the holley unit sold with the larger injectors, though it may have been the old mopar injectors. Kinda sucks, because the only cost efficient way to run the 85pph is if you can find a good deal on a used 670 units, and swap injectors. The tbi origionally ran me just under $300 new w/ sensors and 57pph injectors. Two 85pph set me back another $160, but that was over a year after I had origionally bought the 670.

 

On a side note on the injectors as well, even at stock fuel pressure, I ran rich after swapping the holley 670 w/ 57pph. At stock fp, it should have brought the pph pretty close to stock range. I am pretty sure the delphis are under rated.

 

On that diaphram. Ive always been a bit leery of that happening. My tbi sits further back near the dist. so a blowout could cause a huge gas fed fire that would continue to be fed untill the engine came to a stop. My plan is to block off the diaphram with a plate and run an external VacAFPR, if there is such a thing. Nice thing is that youd be able to run any pressure you wanted w/o fear of a blowout. In high pressure maximum flow applications you could probably even port out and clean up the return passages and use the return line to supply additional fuel since the passages are kind of restrictive.

 

that is exactly what i am doing next week(??). i blocked off the FPR assembly with an aluminum plate/gasket(454TB) and am running an aeromotive FPR upstream of TB on custom aluminum bracket at power steering res/former air pump support. also have gauge on that plate. not for safety( i run 12 lbs/ 90 lbs inj) but for convenience(looks great too) on adjusting FP. my burst diaphragm(s) was on startup as i was looking for a small leak. i found a huge one!

 

Still looking for a polished Vortec single plane intake that has a 1500 to 6500rpm range? Look HERE

Steve

 

I bought an intake from those guys and it was nothing more then a terrible copy of the spread bore vortec intake by edelbrock. I could even see where they mudded over the edel logo so it wouldnt show up in the blank they made for the cores. It was like a copy of a copy of a VHS tape. The copy might have been watchable, but the copy of a copy is usually useless. Havnt had any experience with their other stuff but the one I got was ****. Payed a buck thirty for it and it wasnt even good enough to be used as scrap to make beer cans.

 

LOL Davie!!! i was born in davie hell im gonig at 1 today to pick my car from my friend who painted it.i could check them out for yall. and if you get crapy product i could go jam it back down there throats for you too. ive never herd of "maddog racing" but if i can get an adress i will go check it out there stuf looks pretty good what was wrong with your intake dimented?

 

It looks like some kid made the core out of Play-Doh. The plenum and all the runners are lumpy and mishapen, not to mention that all the casting errors in the edelbrock where magnified 10x when they copied it. There are also cracks and voids in teh casting itself. The machine surfaces are a train wreck as well. Dont think it would even seal. Oh, and of coarse it was made in China.

 

Thanks for the heads up dimented. I actually want to say the origional performer style intake I had on my combo was made by the same company. It was pretty much a mirror copy of the edelbrock performer, except the stupid thing would not seal! We must have had that thing off 3 times, trying to get it to seal in the front and rear. Needless to say, when i swap to the edelbrock airgap, it sealed perfectly.

Thank you for the link steve. Now if I can find that same intake in more trust worthy brand, I will be good to go.

 

lol send it down to me ill throw it through there window for you. jesus its sad places like this are allowed to be in business eh speend a few more bucks and get quailty

 

Sorry for the bad info. I guess the statement, you get what you pay for, will stand the test of time.

Steve