is this possabile?
im willing to put in the money and time....

 

only thing is nitrous for $525

 

Yup thats it. The only cars in the world that can make a 75+ hp gain with 500 bucks are new cobras and a few other boosted cars over the years. $500 bucks can get you a solid 30hp if done right on an LO3. Hp costs money.

 

what about... heads, cam, intake... headers?

 

Not for under 500 bucks. You can get way over 245hp in a 305 TBI with the right parts if that is your next question. However, if you have a $500 budget than forget it. Now if it was a typo and was supposed to be $5K than report back.

 

how isnt that possabile...

you can get a used lt1 cam for 5 to 25 bux
headers for 60
intake 50 - 200

heads, still pending... on what to get...

with what i said can you expect around 245hp? what about TQ?

i well also remove all the EGR and smog...

 

Even if you get those parts for the price you listed you still need over 250 bucks in new gaskets, fab work to get the headers to whatever exhaust you have back there. Finally you need another 300 just for chip burning. Without it your car will be slower. You also need new valve springs and timing chain ($100). Don't forget oil, coolant, misc tools (balancer installer and puller). This is all provided that you do the work youself. My car has 34,000 miles on it and I did a cam swap the easy and irresponsilbe way. I kept the stock valve springs and timing chain. I still spend near 300 just for the swap that I peformed myself.

 

i have new dule coil valve springs ...
i have all the tools...
oil and coolent isnt a prob....

but baseicly you are saying it isnt worth it?

how much power gain can i expect ?

 

Well it is very worth it if you have the right parts, don't take shortcuts, and have the patience to burn your own chips. You can get 300hp out of a 305 TBI with the right stuff. It takes a helluva lot more than $500 bucks though. If you only have $500 I would look at getting some suspension stuff and a fuel pump. Take your next 500 and get headers and cat of your choice (you may need more than 500 here). Then the next 500 should go towards chip stuff. You can see where I am going. You need to get rid of all the weak links on our cars before you dive into the motor.

 

well taking off all the EGR and smog frees up HP... how much well it help... anyways... you still dont think you could do all that for under 500 bux? i can dump more into it if need be, but i want 500 to be mine limit... other wize i see no point in wasteing money... i just want a bit more power....
"Cheap and simple"

 

removing the smog will not net you much power if any. Yes you can just throw on a cheap cam, heads, and intake manifold but unless you have a high flowing exhaust and a properly tuned chip the car is going to run worse. You could buy the PROM tuning equipment, etc. for around $300 or you can work with brian at tbichips.com for $100-150 in order to get the car running right but other than that there is NO way around this. Also, if you want to make your car faster, throw on some 3.42 or 3.73 gears and posi, no tuning involved there, or if you dont have to worry about emissions just throw on a carb, it sounds like you are looking for very very cheap hp which is not too easy with a TBI system unless you are willing to take the time to do it right.

 

you also cant' run much of a cam without having machine work done. figure $300 in machine work, to get a set of heads to where you need them for a performance cam. that is assuming the valve guides are good, and don't need to be replaced.

 

Even if you recieved the heads and cam for free along with an exhaust, it would be hard to do it for under 500 bucks. There are so many hidden costs like gaskets, header bolts, head bolts, intake bolts, etc etc........

 

there is also the unexpected. like things break. another $500 rainy day fund.

 

so theres no other way... you all seem so "you cant do it"
lol...

 

Yea unforntunatkey it is the truth. We all say you can't do it because we have tried ourselves. Like I said; I took every shortcut under the sun and I spent about 350 on my cam swap. Don't forget shipping costs! It all adds up. There is not much you can do to a car for $500. When I first started to mod my car is allowed for $500 increments to mod one mod at a time. I have about the cheapest headers out there and I got them them to my door for 450.

 

HAHAHAHA I cannot believe u guys dont think u can get 245 HP around 500 bux...Time to start buildin NEED!!!!!!!!


Jason

 

yeah man i dont think my LO3 is pushing 245 ponys and im in the mid 14s

 

Without nitrous you cannot do it. How do you plan to gain 75 hp with $500? It is obvious you know nothing about TBI cars.

 

well said

 

UR right I know next to nothin about TBI for I am A TPI Guy, and built one badass 356 TPI motor, so dont even think I dont know what i am Talkin about when it comes to motors...

But I do think that there is a way to build one for that price! it may not be quite 245 HP but I think ball park of 235HP should be doable...Also its not all brand new parts were talkin here. Junkyards, used parts free parts havin buddies hook ya up with machine work. So where in that do u not see a build under 500 bux..

U guys need to look past the "I buy everything brand new from summit and jegs and run down to my local shop and pay the labor to have em install it" attitude and think well If I could have my buddy do this for me and I could get this at a junkyard...blah blah u have ur self a budget 305ci 245 HP TBI Motor...

Tony we are buildin this motor!

Jason

 

I never questioned your ability abut motors but you know nothing about modding TBI motors. You are starting with a motor that makes much more than 170hp in stock form. You also have less weak links to deal with a TPI set-up. You are not far away from 245 hp in stock form. A TBI car is.

I got my LT1 cam for 50 bucks shipped to my door. I can get a set of 081 heads for 100. Springs cost 50, chain costs 50. if you want it to last more than 5 miles you need these parts + gaskets. If you want it to run right you need to burn a new chip. Whether you do it yourself or have someone do it for you it will cost you between 150 and 300 bucks. I skipped on everything when I did my cam swap, my dad owns a machine shop, I own two F-bodies and am a recent college graduate with no job. I know how much it costs to mod these cars and where to get things for free. My 305 is a dummy motor for me right now. If I had to run it for any serious amount of miles the springs and chain would head south even with only 34,000 miles. That is after my budget $350 cam swap that I performed. I already had the exhuast and accessories that are required before you even consider a cam swap.

99% of all heads and cam swaps on 305 TBI's are done with used parts. TBI owners typically do not have a lot of money. That is why we own them in the first place.

 

OK ego's aside, U obviously know more than I on TBI's, what gains can be had on boring out the block,TB, bigger injectors, cam, rockers, ported heads, single plane intake (if they make one), and more compression?

its a start and then tunin will come in...But we'll worry about that later

 

With the proper tuning and preparation you can see a solid 300hp with a 305 TBI. With the recent vortec craze I am posistive that the hp limit will be raised. You will find that an overbore is not a good idea on these motors because it is costly and you can only safely go .030. By the time you pay for that you can have a 350 or larger motor. There are lots of great mods that can be done to these cars to really wake them up. Check out the "new to TBI" thread up at the top. That should help you in decide which parts to use along with what the limitations are with stock parts such as TBI unit, injectors, fuel pump, etc.

 

Hi Need

you might not get 245hp for 500 dollars but you can always buy yourself a generic chip, a good cat back system and nice K&N filter for about 500 bucks. this is nearly identical to what I did a few years back on my firebird, I have no track times or dyno results to give you but I'm sure you'd be pleased with the performace jump, I sure was.

 

I think Pablo's buildup was one of the cheapest I've seen around on these boards. He used some TPI heads, decent cam, single plane intake, and then put a carb on cause it won't start with the TBI due to some kind of electrical issue. His whole buildup was IIRC $1500 and he's running I think mid 13's which is great for that kind of money spent on a 305.

 

over-boring, raising the compression ect.

well great ideas. are not free. especialy for someone who has to ask a question like this. yes some of us know people, not everyone does.

none of us are saying that you can't do a budget build-up.


ported heads won't do much, the LO3 was graced with the crappiest heads GM ever made.

now $1000-$1500 and you can talk about a pretty solid 300hp build-up. and do it RIGHT.

 

long thread. the first comment was the best. nitrous! . used if need be.

 

ok, money aside... good heads, cam, intake , headers , 670 CFM TBI... and other odds and ends ect ect.... what numbers can that bring...

 

i dynoed 222HP 5100 rpms at rear wheel with less than optimum tuning.

 

Too hard to tell. Everyones heads and cam LO3's end up making different numbers based on how well they tune and such.

 

Nitrous really is the best solution to your problem.

Oh, and removing EGR will gain you no power. EGR is actually good for your engine, its just a bitch to get working when it quits.

-chuck

 

Get the 081 heads, port them yourself. I recommend decking block. Use hi performance head gaskets .039"
If car is not emissioned, then get inexpensive 1 5/8" tube headers. Custom Chip.
You wont be at 245hp, but you'll definetely have more power if you match your parts up wisely.
I've seen guys build 350's up to over 300hp for under $700
*But these were all N/A engines, mind you.

 

Yeah, and if we could all get people to do free machine work for us and get parts for next to nothing, I'd say yes, you could make 75hp on a TBI with $500. Unfortunely, most of us live in the real world.

 

and what if i carb the LO3? well that see more power...
then 245rwh?

 

the TBI guys will say no, but i dont think anybody has swapped and seen a loss of power

 

Well obviously if you tune the carb right you're not going to lose power, but that's just more money to spend that isn't well spent on a stock engine. If its got heads and a good cam and you don't want to tune it or mess with the computer, by all means throw a carb on. If you're shooting for 245hp at the wheels, do it the right way the first time and don't say how cheap can I get there; work your way up to that power spending money on good parts and you'll be happier in the end.

 

well iv kinda made up my mind at lest for now, but we'll see if i go thorw with it... i rounded up the prices of stuff i would thorw on my motor it comes to around $625 give or take a few bucks... thats not inclueding tax or shipping.... or chip burning....

for that same price i can get a short block 350...

so now im kinda pending on keeping the 305 or tossing in a 350 with combos witch in the long run well make more power and torqe

then, theres allway gears, headers, cam... and thats worth 1sec off the 1/4 mile times...

so im being diffacult as of now...
kinda cant deside, lol

 

If headers arent included in your $625 then i can guarantee its going to be really really hard to get 245 out of the 305. the stock exhaust is just horrible, my friends 2.5L contour has 2 1/4" piping.

-chuck

 

Hey TBI brethern, I too am powered by the LO3, sweet motor. Mine's got 150,000, doesn't burn a drop of oil and has smooth power to redline. It feels as fast as my old 73 Camaro with a 350. I'm very happy with the motor, but I still dream of melting my back tires and leaving flaming strips of rubber everywhere SO what to do?

I found a used LT-1 engine, 275-300hp stock, with a T56 six speed tranny, harness and all accessories, for 1500 bucks! I plan to keep my 305 until she needs a rebuild, and then spend the money on an LT-1 swap--the main advantage being I'll be smog legal (I live in California), plus I can mod the LT-1 a bit and still pass smog with 350 or so hp. I could spend 1500 on my TBI motor, but I wouldn't pass smog or be making as much power.

I understand that hot rodders like a challenge, and building up the LO3 is a good project. However, an LT-1, or LS1 swap would seem to be the more economical and reliable approach to building a faster third gen.

Poncho

91 Firebird TBI, automatic open air element, flowmaster catback, K&N racing oil filter, Slick 50 (makes a difference), cobalt blue metallic paint with chrome weld style wheels, black GT steering wheel going on this weekend, T-tops, Alpine, lowered front end, airshocks in back

 

poncho,

no one is going ot disagree, but very few people get LT1/T56 both for $1500 that is typicaly closer to $2500, and the LS1/T56 together is even more.

Actualy, eventualy i will likely be running a LQ9/T56 combo. The price point on the LQ9 is alot lower than an LS1.

But there is something about doing it with a 305/TBI

 

Used parts like heads arent really worth it I find, since then
you'll have to pay for labour unless you have that covered.

I also wouldnt consider nitrous.. since its only temporarely available.

HO 305's had 215 hp, you could use that as a baseline..
then add used headers, and LT1 or summit cam .. I guess that could work.

Im not sure about this one.. but maybe you could adapt the TBI
unit off a 454 truck ?

 

Re. engine swaps, points well taken--cost of motor and installation is costly. However, there are cheap transplants out there. Looking at the thread again, I realized we are talking about 245 hp, not 500, and that's not too far off.

I have a wish list around somewhere, of bolt ons from the autoparts store that will get you another 80-100hp no problem. On that list is the TBI powerplate (not to be confused with the exhaust cutout), a spacer plate that joins the intake bores for shared mixture and more available air and gas. Will post the site for the part when I find it again.

My list goes something like this:

Cold air induction, ram air,+K&N filter 15-20 hp
TBI upgrades, like high flow injectors, dremel tool action, powerplate spacer 10hp
Adjustable fuel pressure regulator with above mods
Edelbrock Performer manifold (powerplate does the same thing as Air Gap) 5hp
Ignition system upgrades, cap and rotor, plugwires etc. 2-5hp
Underdrive pulleys, add a couple of rwhp
160 degree thermostat and manual fanswitch, 2-5hp
SLP shorty headers and Y-pipe, with high flo cat and flowmaster system 20hp

So we just added about 60hp, before messing with timing, cam or valvetrain, which I know nothing about. Hey, if I could get 250-300hp out of my 305 I'd be happy. Engine swaps have their own headaches, like speedometer, tach problems.

I have also seen a TBI supercharger setup, Paxton I think, but that gets into the thousands of dollars. I'd rather do it without poweradders, plus you don't want to have to pull off a supercharger to pass smog.

Hey Dewey, were you funnin me? The LQ9 is a four banger with 90hp! I actually have a sick fascination with 4 cylinder F-bodies. They musta been kinda slow...I'd love to hear from someone who has one. Believe it or not, maybe on this site, I read about how to soup up the "Iron Duke." With some minor mods, you can get 115hp, or enough to get down the driveway, if it's downhill, ha ha.

 

Okay, now we add the supercharger, for another 80hp or so. Here's the Vortech supercharger for a 305 TBI (truck) motor. May need a new chip too, not sure. So now we've got about 320 hp, and we also replaced all suspension with tubular racing parts, dropping about 160lbs, oh yeah, and did I mention we hooked up the Venom Nitrous kit for TBI? Add at least another 100hp, plus 20 for our electronic exhaust cutout, and we are at over 400 road buckling hp. Of course, a rebuild with different springs, better pistons etc. is probably a good idea, so our motor doesn't turn into shrapnel. All this is well under 5000 bucks, to go way faster than cars costing 10 times more. And we still didn't mess with the cam, so there's a few more ponies to be had with cam and top end work.

Poncho

"I owe you a ten second car."

 

why are we asking questions if you already have all the tools... and you seem to think a new lt1 cam intake and headers will yeild over 100hp. I assume that if somebody already has all the tools needed to do a cam swap etc... they've got the know-how to know that you're probably wasting your time messing with an lt1 cam cheap intake and cheap headers...

btw, you still have MAYBE 275hp... whats the point?

do a 100 shot of nos until you have more than 500 bucks.

 

The TBi supercharger is not worth the hassle to pay for it, fab it to mate with our under hood compartment, and TUNE it which is practically a stab in the dark. By the time you pay for everything you could have a 350 TBI with just as much power.

There are a few things that should be noted after reading the last few posts.

You can swap to a larger TBI motor and not worry about the tach or speedo.
Used heads are okay because you can get some plus the labor work for half the cost of a new set.
DO NOT STACK HP to see how much total power you will make. Anything you bolt to your car will only work in harmony to whatever it is properly matched with. You will only see hp gains with ignition and tune up parts if your car is desparately needing it. If everything is fine you will not see power form it. Parts like adjustble regualtors, ignition stuff, thermostats, injectors, and such only help your car make the most of the power it can when you add real power mods.

 

Makes sense, considering the supercharger is 3000 bucks or something like that. What's the advantage of using a 350 TBI over an LT-1? Can you use your same ECM, chip and harness? That would be nice.

Down the road I want to do a motor swap, with as little hassle as possible. Can you just put in the 350 TBI and leave everything else the same (ECM, chip, harness, accessories etc.)? Is the 350 TBI a truck motor, and how much power does it make? What about supercharghing it? Vortech claims around 295hp on an otherwise stock 350TBI--here's the link to the article:

http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/howto/60118/

Also, can you use your 305's TBI on the 350? Same fuel pump? Sorry for all the questions, but this sounds like a better route than the LT-1 swap.

Thanks for the FYI on adding up hp, wasn't quite sure how that worked. Has anyone else on this site swapped in the 350 TBI?

Poncho Villa

P.S. check out this set up, blown and carbed I guess

 

The LT1 has nothing in common with your TBI system. You will need a completely different set-up for that. Check out the engine swap for that. You can get pretty much any 350 you want and make it a 350 TBI. Everythat that bolts to your 305 can be transfered over to the 350. You will need a new chip and larger injectors but everything else, computer (not to be confused with the chip), wireing harnes and TBI unit can be re-used. You will want a high flow fuel pump since the stocker is so weak. I would find a nice 350 and build it up before you put it in. All other tock TBi motors out there don't perform much better than your stock one now. However, a nice set of heads matched to a cam really wake these things up.

 

That is so cool. Now I know what motor I want to get---didn't know the possibilities for 350 TBI before finding this thread. I'm stoked! Found a couple of engine builders that make high performance motors for use with TBI in Firebirds and Camaros--and they make 300+hp, and 365lbft or so of torque, are computer compatible, and made with high end parts. Check out this page:

http://search.ebay.com/350-TBI-engin...QsosortorderZ1

I thought I was going to have to drop in a TPI motor to get that kind of power. Will be a year or so at least, because my current motor runs great.

Will the T56 six speed from fourth gen cars fit a 350 crate motor?

Poncho

91 Firebird 305 TBI, open air element, flowmaster catback system, custom paint and rims, GTA ground effects

 

Diffrent LQ9

LQ9 is the 6.0L LS1 Derived engine, it is found in the trucks, and escalateds, it is an iron blocked version of the LS1.