Hey,
So I'm trawling these boards all the time and my mechanics skill has shot through the roof because of this place. Saved a chunk of money fixing my car and relatives. Starters,radiator exhaust and just stuff.

But I'm going to ask some questions that I've searched allready I just want to be sure. This winter I'm looking to get the beemer running and retire the firebird so I can do my heads. Fit a new cam, intake and headers.

My questions. 1st My heads serial number ends in 081! Those are TPI heads arn't they? What are they doing on my TBI saves me buying some. But did they ever come stock with TPI heads?
I'm going to port and polish. won't that give me 20 hp?

2nd My intake, I was going to go for Edelbrock performer. I want low end grunt only. My tbi is never going to see 6000 rpm I don't want that kind of ***** rev em and go car. Everyone keeps saying dissapproving things about the performer so if I spend $200 on a weiand/holley then have to start Modifying it I'll be worried about snapping crap and messing that up. Also considering I have 081 heads what intake should I get. Also I is there a big improvement with a new intake? I can't find figures anywhere.

3rd So I at this point it's good to do the cam with everything else off. I know I know get an LT1 cam OK but with all the crane cams and edelbrock don't you get new roller lifters as well. Do you guys put in the LT1 and new rollers??? Also at this point is it worth while replacing the timing chain to a doulble roller or are there no gains?

4th Headers will be fitted as well at this point. I may do the AC and air removal and put on the pulleys that are shown in the new to TBI thread. Do you gain with out the accessories? what gains? Seems very simple and cheap to do.

5th theres no fith. I know theres a lot of questions here so thank you for reading and any answers are appreciated as allways. Apart from do a search answers. I just need a little certainity before I go out and start buying stuff.
Also I'm going to have to tune I'll cross that bridge then. One last question is a larger throttle body a good mod I've seen some holleys on ebay that are cheap.

Thanks guys for any help at all. These cars are mindblowing!

 

And without further adieu, Shifty Capone, 90RS305 and dimented24x7!!

~applause~

I know bupkiss but I am totally interested in what you are going to do. I'd like to request regular updates throughout the project and pics too if you can do it!

Good luck,

 

I should of took pic's of my radiator intstall. Very easy apart from my transmission cooler line fought like a .... to go back in.
I will post some pic's as soon as' on everything else. I should get a snazzy pic' on my profile as well but my car doesn't shine unless it's raining.
Bupkiss?

 

Zero, zilch, nada, nothing.

I'll tell you one thing though. Compared to 2 months ago, I know a whole lot more.



Being in California and budget limited, I have to focus on the small things. I've already done an open air element (woo-friggin'-hoo) and I want to do my exhaust. After that, I want a new chip to see what this can get me. I just (tonight) found this site:

TBIChips.com

This gentleman from South Carolina has a ton of wisdom on his site in addition to a Stage 1 chip for 70 bucks I want to try. He recommends a 180 thermostat which is just a good idea for our cars anyway.

Like I said... I'll be tracking your progress from CA. Good luck.

~C

 

Ok, hopefully i'll touch on everthing.

1) cam choice. You want low end grunt which is going to mean a smaller cam. the LT1 is probably in your range, although the LT1 makes power to 6k in a 305.

2) Intake, its hard to mess up the intake on these cars, find something whos port size matches the port size you are using on the heads, and go with it, plenum volume is key, TBI setups like a large plenum. Most have found a good 4bbl intake works well. I myself am rather partial to the single planes, they are a great match with TBI.

3) with roller cams you do not need to worry about lifters, unlike a hydrolic tappet, they do not wear to match the cam, you mismatch them on lobes, and switch cams etc. so you do not need new lifters. that is why they are not included an any of the cam kits you see for hyd. rollers.

4) AC and Air removal is mostly to make room, clean things up and save a few pounds. There is some loss from the air pump, as it pumps all the time, but it is minimul. the AC basicly free-wheels when not in use. I did it on mine just to get it out of the way.

(i think i touched everything but out of order)

5) yes, i am adding number 5, because you forgot it.

Computer work. when you do a cam swap and modify heads/intake etc. you need to get the computer to work with it. there is no substitution for doing this yourself. My suggestion is to start now, it is SO much easier to learn when the car is stock, then it is to try to learn when the car won't run. I'll also touch on the tbichips.com that was listed. IMHO they are crap. NO ONE. I mean NO ONE can tune a car via e-mail or over the phone. there is no replacement for driving it, watching the data, and making the changes yourself.

 

As always Dewey nailed it on the head. I want to back up his statements on the chip work. Once you have a cam you will understand how crutial this step is. Once you start to tune your own car or even get to watch someone do it, you will see how there is no ther way to do it. It is like trying to do surgery through the mail. You just can't do it no matter how good the person is on the other side. Now if they come to your house, that is a different animal all together. It may be time for a wide band 02 as well. Besides being the only way to knock down your tune, they are just plain nifty.

Oh and the heads. Maybe a previous owner had some TPI heads put on. You never know what happens to these cars over 15 years. But since you have them, keep them. Porting them will be up to you but I would go for it.

 

Ah yes... I forgot about the sage Dewey.

With respect to the computer work, are you saying that for guys like me where it is impractical to prgram our own chips or otherwise comes with a prohibitive cost that we are best served staying with the stock chip?

It seems to me that "the dogs" is a good candidate for burning his own chips after he does all this work (and he probably should). However, for someone like me with limited mechanical skill and tools along with an oppressive government smog reg why does buying a stage 1 chip with the expectation of 10% improvement seem like a bad idea?

Heck... All I am shooting for is anything over 200 HP and staying legal.

~C

 

Thanks for the input I know these a FAQ's.
I'd not thought of getting into the chip burning until after but I see your point. It's going to be a lot easier now whilst I know everything is "right". I think I'll go that route first. thanks.

On the intake matching is that going to be dependant on how much porting I do then? I'm not going to big because I've read that lowers air speed. Also I've read single plane intakes are for higher rpm. My car's an auto so thats one of the reasons I want the powerband to start as low as possible. Isn't a single plane intake with a large plenum going to give me more top end?
Thanks dewey and What intake are you running?

Is it worth while changing the timing chain if theres no wear?


Oh and caddillac I read your post where you said your better at choosing other people to fix it. I've def' been thinking oh crap when I've been working on the car thinking I was going to break stuff. But I've saved just myself at least $1000. So i can afford to break a few thing changing the exhaust is so easy I was mad at the garage's who gave me quotes of $400/$300 just for a muffler and other crazy figures. Those places are incompetent robbers. If you do your exhaust let me know. Oh I put on edelbrock but I think next time I'd go hooker. My tailpipes stick out 8' .

 

Yeah, but being able to read people doesn't save me as much as knowing how to wrench.

8 inches? Whoa... is that a bit much? I'm looking at being a little more subtle:



Hooker, huh? 3" pipe?

 

My pipes stick out way pass the bumper....I think I might leave them on for comic effect

the hooker 3' exhaust has better tips.
Once you pull of the old exhaust and compare it you'll see why everyone changes them... I mean you'll actually see. The original is like a straw compared. My car drove better immediatley. And I felt like a ***!!!!

Every $ saved doing it your self is worth ten times as much. Not a bad deal for scraped knuckles.

And getting 200 hp from these...well I'm sure thats a lot easier than I thought 6 mths ago and you can keep stock emmissions. you should be able to do that easily. I'd rather do the work myself though and learning to do it through these boards is the best way I can think of.

 

hey shifty! with my basic mods,exhaust and tpi heads arn't I now over 200hp??

 

That's a pretty easy goal. The guys on Horsepower TV were able to obtain just about that.... with an Edelbrock manifold, Accell ignition, Hypertech chip, smaller pulleys, and a full Edelbrock exhaust (Walker Cat).

They dyno'ed it at approximately 185 at the rear wheels...

 

CA legal?

 

50 state street legal. They retained all of the factory smog equipment (pump, converter), and they didn't even touch the heads (EGR was kept in-tact)...

It was a low budget build-up, I have a copy of it on tape.

 

So this intake manifold:


Edelbrock Performer TBI

This coil:


(This is likely not the exact one but maybe a good likeness?)

This chip:


Why would this better than a chip from TBIchips.com???

This exhaust:



Pulleys and a Cat.

Guessing about 2K to getto 185 RWHP?. Sound about right?

Hmmm...

 

That's pretty much what they utilized, but just for those reading.... they went with an entire Edelbrock exhaust (cat-back included).

Much like Edelbrock, Hypertech is one of their sponsors.... so they went with who pays their bills.

 

It is tought to say what power level you are at with those mods. Most full exhaust LO3's put down 180 to 200 at the wheels so I would say you are in the neighborhood. We are serious about off the shelf chips though. Don't buy their 10% improvemnt claim. What do they mean by that? If they mean that your timing tables and fuel tables will now be off 10% with a 10% reduction in mileage and idle quality then they are right. It is like mail order surgery. It can't be done. Stage X chips usually make peoples cars run worse.

 

No arguement there.

However, for those reading... understand that Hypertech more than likely helped them with burning the chip for this specific application (we weren't behind the scenes, obviously).

Giving them more aggresive ignition timing, as well as re-map the fuel delivery curve (on a car utilizing the stock cam and heads), shouldn't have been that difficult for them though.

 

Cadillac,

Your using a computer, posting on the internet. you have enough computer skill to do a chip. yes, it really is that easy. especialy with a program like the one Jon Prevost wrote.

thedogs,

The reason single planes have that rep, is because of the way the vacume pulses are handled by the carb, since our fueling doesn't realy on that like a carb, we don't suffer the poor low RPM performance. my low/mid throttle response actualy improved with the single plane. and i can say there was no torque loss according to the handy butt dyno.

streetlethal,
you can get the exact same benifts as the hypertech chip with 2hours of your time, and hand tools. you can bump your timing a 6*, then do the free AFPR mod (there is a tech article on it), and get the exact same thing. people have ripped the hypertech code, that is all it does.

Some other points.

Exaust is the #1 HP Killer on these cars, headers and cat-back will make a big diffrence. screw the 670TBI, Intake etc first. exaust should be #1. i had to make a 12% change in my VE tables to compensate for the headers, they open things up that much. I was able to run a 14.5 on a g-tech (had mechanical problems at the track) after my cam swap, with a unmodified stock throttle body. so there is a bit of room to work with before you start spending more money. IMHO even with stock heads, a LT1 cam, exaust and gears, with the proper tune is a solid 14sec car. to do all of that, you are only in maybe 500-700 dollars for everything, including tuning equipment. that is not bad for what will end up being a 2-3 second improvement for most LO3 cars.

 

Dewey, I didn't write that post as the be-all, end-all, post regarding Throttle Body Injection.

I only mentioned what I did because Cadillac's post reminded me of that particular episode (1991 Firebird 305 TBI Convertible, project "Budget Bird").

 

My headers are the most important thing. $400
The intake will be about $200 and the cam $50 ebay special.
the tuning stuff I'm not sure how much for the setup but for less than $700 I'm going to have my car set up. Engine wise.
From everything I've read hear I should be pulling a lot of power at that point.
I'm going to do the tuning first though.


And a little bump in timing makes a drastic change..I'm good at 4*

hey cadalliac the MSD coil is simple to fit if your able to do your timing you can fit one. I didn't notice any power difference but everything felt smoother and crisper. $40 why not?

Oh and I know TBI gets slammed all the time...I test drove a new mustang GT a few weeks ago and we got given the keys and off we went. Buried the throttle and I didn't even break a smile, very dissapointing. I've driven meaner escorts.
The accessabilty of these cars :rockon:

:rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

Thanks for the input everyone.

Dewey I don't want to labour this point but why are the single planes listed for higher RPM in the summit catlouge and the dual plane for lower?? Do they just not know what there talking about? Do they not test? Could I expect more with a dual plane?
Thanks for being patient dewey
Also be prepared for me to barrage everyone with questions in a month or two when I start installing everything.

 

I don't know what to do next at this point. Maybe the entire exhaust system with a wideband O2 sensor. Even this doesn't seem worth it either unless I dive into all the other stuff. Chip burning is out b/c I am not near anyone with this skill who I can learn from and I'm also not in a position to learn by trial and error with my "daily driver" either.

Sorry for derailing the thread TD (the dogs). I'll still be curious about your progress.

~C

 

no summit is not wrong. they are talking about applications with carbs. with TBI it determines how much fuel is need diffrently, so the shortcomings of the single plane at low RPMs that cause carbs problems, are not an issue.

 

No derailing . tuning is part of the set up process. I'm going to venture forth on that one and I'll keep posting my results. I need the car for my daily driver as well (unitl the beemer is running) so can't afford to mess it up.
Have you done the open element yet?
bumped your timing?
basic tune up?
Just start with all these little things and your confidence will grow.( mine has)
when I first started reading these boards I knew less than I thought, I know nothng now but my 'bird is driving hugely better than it did 3mths ago.
I'm daunted at changing my cam and everything but My eyes are on the prize. A car that can make you laugh when you push the throttle. I can't till the spring when it's all done.

 

ok Thanks dewey.
so a tbi is bunched in with the carb stuff then at summit. Ok I'll look into more and do some more reading on that so I can understand what you mean..unless you you have the time for a short essay on intake applications
thanks

 

no many of us are using carb intakes, with an adaptor plate.

 

thank you