Here's what he said on V6 board:

Now I'm not trying to start **** or anything, but I'm actually confused here, how does a V6 run faster than an V8 with less power numbers all around? Is there any verification for this? Lo3 guys speak up here.

 

I'm referring to this thread here:

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=266973

 

No, he's wrong, an LO3 would be faster stock for stock. My "stock" flowmaster muffler LO3 trapped about 87mph.

 

He is wrong, very wrong, I'll just leave it at that.

 

In his Dreams maybe or if you drop them both from a helicopter
they might tie on a race to the ground!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

They weigh pretty much the same and the LO3 will have more horsepower and torque. So how in the name of physics can a V6 be faster. I don't think the 3.23 gears will make up the difference.

 

Agreed.

 

I thought a l03 weighed ~100lbs more than the v6...

 

Keep in mind that the LO3 will have alot more torque under the curve then a V6 would.

 

The LO3 puts out 170hp at the crank. The V6 was putting out something like 140hp at the crank. The 30hp difference is more than enough to make up for the 100lbs.

 

My stock taurus ran 15.7 and that's only 3.4 liters.

 

it's still a f0rd

 

azvolfan:
"They weigh pretty much the same"
No.

I know how much hp/tq they make.

Just pointing out thier weight difference.

 

I agree and this what most V6'ers overlook. The LO3 was a performance option believe it or not. It also makes about 100 more lb ft of toqure and a solid 40+ hp than the V6 at almost every point in the curve. We just had this debate in the street racing board from a guy who put down 135 ft lbs in his V6 and thought he would whoop an T5 LO3. Then again, when cars like these are 20+ years old you do run into one that doesn't run the way it should. People tend to think that one dying LO3 with 410K on the clock is typicall of every other LO3 out there. As soon as I see some T5 v6 cars pulling mid 15's stock, I will be a beleiver.

 

Point being?

 

I have a later model one that ive been using and its alright for a family car. Not real fast but at least unlike some of the 4 bangers that rev to 60 zillion rpm it actually goes when you punch it. The trans leaves alot to be desired, though. Only had 75k on it when I started using it and already it has some issues like the 'slid-clunk' shifts that my 700 had.

 

Nidy,

Your saying the Camaro with the V6 and the Camaro with the LO3 don't weigh about the same? It's the same car with a different engine. How can they not weigh about the same?

 

Azvolfan:
I see what you are saying, and I agree. For some reason I thought we were talking about the engine ony. My bad.

 

I'm sure the V6 is a lot lighter than the LO3. May even be up to 200lbs lighter. When you put them in the car it makes them both @ 3,000lbs. And I doubt the differnece in the weight is enough to make the V6 faster. That is stock vs. stock and all else except the engine being equal. That's where I was going with it.

 

A MPFI weights about 310 lbs. A V8 tbi is about 550 lbs

The combined weight difference between the two cars (not just motors) is actually closer to 250+ lbs when you factor in the slightly lighterweight suspension and drivetrain componants the V6 has compoared to the 305 V8 componants

Shify decribed it best above about someone coming across a TBI V8 that has seen better days. Stock for stock the V8 will beat the V6 if all parts are new and equal.

Now take a slightly aged one and against my slightly tweaked 2.8 auto and they will have some trouble. But like I'd be into drag racing a frikin V6 car to impress someone though. This is merely a fun daily driver to me

 

Gen III? The vulcan or duratec? I've known of people playing with those motors. Not bad for a 3.0. The v-8's fuel management system in mine is probably one of the better systems I've seen. I wish GM could do this good of a job on one of theirs. The older cars have aftermarket chips et al. but this one with the big 80mm maf compensates so well I have yet to hear of a mod that requires tuning. Freaky as hell. Fun as hell for the daily family car though.

 

I honestly have no idea. All I know is that it leaks oil all over the driveway, idles kinda funky, and needs some work. Hopefully I can get my other car up and running so I can work on it.

The reason that tuning is such an issue with the gm stuff is that they used SD in alot of the earlier systems. Its realatively simple and universal, but it has no way of knowing how much air is actually going through the motor. Once you change something, the tune goes into the pooper. With MAF the ecm knows how much air is coming in so, in theory, modding wont have any effect on the fueling. There are disadvantages to MAF as well, namely resolution. But, the later hardware has overcome that, hence GMs return to MAF. I have one of the huge late model MAFs that Im going to use on my tbi setup so itll be interesting to see how it actually works.

If you want some inspiration to do some tuning, cut out the flow straightener screen and completly change up the ductwork. Thatll throw things off. There was a guy on the LS1.com that hacked the maf and the ducting apart for more 'flow'. Said the car ran like absolute crap afterward. Kinda funny that people are paying hundreds of dollars for 'improved' MAFs and yet theyre selling the better stock MAFs for just a couple of bucks not knowing that theyre actually good hardware.

 

Just how much loss is there from the T-5 to the 700R4? I know the 3.08/2.73 is a big factor, (Bill can attest to that ) but lets say we took two identical LO3's (entire car), gave the auto 3.08's, and stuck em' on a track. If both cars were driven to their full potential, what time diff. would be seen? Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question, but I really don't know as much about transmissions as I'd like to...

Bruce (90RS305)

 

Yep.. a 3.1 / T5 will weigh much less than a 305 / TBI. How do I know?

'88 2.8 / T5, rebuilt to a 3.1, vs a '92 TBI Auto, power everything. Mods - K&N, and 3" catback on the '92.

16.7 vs 16.9 @ the track.

It is up to how well optioned (or lack, in my case) teh car is. I put my 3.1 / T5 on a set of CAT scales, and my car weighs right around 2950 lbs. Has anyone here weighed their 305 TBI car? I may see if I can talk Nathan into weighing his, to find out... He's a typical 305 TBI pw, pdl, a/c, etc.

 

Also, I want to point out - I meant that a 3.1 / T5 is faster than a 305 / 700r4. A 3.1 auto is still slower than a 305 auto.

Difference is in the weight. Between 350-400lbs difference. 10lbs difference = 1 hp

Then you've got the 2.73s vs 3.23s.

And then the fact that the T5 will get more power to the ground than a 700r4....

 

this funny, arguing over which car is a bigger pos

You cant compare et, thats affected by traction, driver skills, you have to compare mph, as done near the top of the post.

I weighed mine with no gas and no driver just over 3000, all power, no ac. Cant be more than a pound difference between a tbi and my carb. I still had all the wiring and ecm in at the time.

The v6 cars are slow slow slow..my 84/t5 2bbl ran low 19's my 87/auto mpfi ran high 17's

My 170hp 4000lb 79 z28 with a flat cam outran both cars easily.

 

I'm not argueing that the 305 makes more power... actually, we are comparing ETs of 16-17 second cars here. Does it really matter?

 

Nope

 

what do you mean 16-17 second cars.... only the v6's are that.

John
15.1@92 mph with ONLY chip turning.

wanna race Doward ?

 

I may not be an LO3 AUTO....but I'm an LO3, and STOCK I got my car to a 15.3.....I don't think you're ever gonna see a stock V6 thirdgen do that!

 

Alot of the stock thirgens were slow as dirt. Saying which one is faster is like arguing over which pile crap smells better

 

With pleasure!!!


buwahahahaa.... omg, Dewey, man, really... research before you just randomly call out someone. Especially me!

*EDIT* If you wonder why I'm laughing, look to the left, under my avatar.

 

Doward:
What are you in the 12-13's?

 

Sorry Dewey... you lose (EDIT: on paper, best ET vs best ET). (But at least you'll be really close to him, unless he's running stickier rubber than he has been)

Anyway... my input, bone stock LO3s have been proven to range anywhere from a 15.5 to 17.5.. the LO3 is a touchly mill apparrently. On the same note, stock 3.1's have been seen to go from 16.5 to probably upwards of 18.0... there might even be some faster ones.. I don't tend to pay attention to stock V6 slow ETs. The point is, stock vs. stock, the ET lines do cross... and stock 3.1s can nail stock LO3s... and sadly, the faster breed of stock LO3s don't tend to represent the average. Many a day day you'll see joe LO3 run side by side with joe 3.1, and some days you'll see that 3.1 take the lead. Yes, it's silly, and makes no sense... blame GM?

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=266114

Realistically, again with the barring stickier rubber, limited slip, or traction oriented suspension modification, if Doward burns on the line, Dewey might take him... Prolly be a pretty good driver-vs-driver race

 

Nevermind Doward, I saw one of your other posts.

"Me - 'Yep. 15.0 @ 94, and 15.4 @ 98mph - with a 3.15 60' - It's got a turbo' "

I think it would be close with Dewey.

 

Uh, nope.

Think "v6" times.

 

It's like golf if you have a v6 you factor in your handicap and waalaa you have a better time then that 305

 

I am pretty sure he was trying to make a point stock vs stock. For your one turbo 3.1 there are a million that are bone stock. Same with an LO3. I realize that there may be a few 3.1's that beat an LO3 but I would bet the house on the majority of 305's beating 3.1's.

 

Plus Dewey's got a cam in his motor now, I think he'd take ya anyway. Your times are very very close to his stock times, with a cam and tuned up right (which it is) I think he'd probably smoke ya.

 

Yeah.. the problem is, when an LO3 nerfs a 3.1, the driver of the LO3 rarely talks about it after the fact because it seems so pointless to mention. I've got the same attitude when I'm in my '88... things are a little different when I actually take the '86 out though.. and it's definitely my 'fast' car, though Dewey would probably hand me my butt

 

lol, I'd be honored to have my butt handed to me by Dewey

 

And yes I was doing it to make a point. That was STOCk.

Yes I have a cammed motor, and a few other tricks (namely, a pretty little blue bottle in the back of my car.)

Downard, maybe you should know who calls you out.

 

I'll race the Bottle fed LO3....I'll be on bottle too though, and you have to come to Texas to race (j/K) Yeah, the Lo3 would be faster if both cars were new from the factory. But I have seen instances where 3.1's were faster than I thought (Matthewy). But don't think the V6's can't be faster than the 5.0L motors motor for motor (after some modifications of course). BUt all holds true in racing, if you're gonna race it, it's not gonna stay stock. It's a weak arguement though. Bottom of the line v8 option car Vs. bottom of the line economy (chick)v6 car.

 

Jesus, 15 second cars calling other cars out for a race.

Where's that special olympics picture again?

 

fly89gta --

Thank you for your great insight into this subject. Your on-topic contribution to this subject has really shed new light on the subject. Your obvious lack of reading comprehension is now obvious. It is because of posts like yours, that have made TGO go downhill. Typically we welcome people to post, but you apparently have nothing of any value to contribute. I, and I am sure, other members as well, would appreciate you keep you stupid comments to yourself, until such a time that you have something of use to contribute to the greater good of the thirdgen camaro community.

Thanks,
John (faster than 15sec (without the nitrous) 305 TBI owner)

 

depending on how he has things set up, he could easily be running 12's on the bottle. I would think thats *slightly* faster then 15's. Next time, please read the whole thread.

 

barely 12's with nitrous? NOT impressed. Besides, you guys are off topic here, the argument was stock versus stock, not stock+bottle+cam+tricks up my *** versus stock+cam+turbo+tricks up my ***, ect..

 

Hey mods, why exactly am I on probation? Lemmie guess, pissed off one of the v6 guys who's buddies with a mod? nice. Read original thread content:

 

I was screwing around, jeez.

Take the tampons out of your asses and lighten the **** up.