Okay, so i have a 350 tbi right now the previous owner put in my 305 rs. It runs like hell at idle, good at half throttle, and lean at full throttle, injectors and tuning obviously. The previous owner, (my idiot brother), thought it would be cool to go to an engine shop, pay 3000 dollars for engine that doesn't run correctly. So now it comes to me, i want to have a 2 bolt main 350, .030 over, flat top pistons, vortech heads, carb manifold, holley 670 tbi, lt1 cam and i need to pass smog
has anyone done this?
Also, i live in ca so it must pass the visual also. I know tuning will be a big deal so is there anyone in ca (los angeles) that would help with that, i know if i have someone teach me once i could get it myself.

please help

 

It might be a little difficult with a carb manifold that has the necessary EGR stuff that the Vortec heads will need. I would suggest just sticking with an Edelbrock TBI manifold and a good head that doesn't require any wierd EGR hookups.

I pass emissions just fine with my setup. . . no bling and most people just looking at my motor hardly notice the performance stuff. (black MSD wires, black ceramic coated headers and stock valve covers)

 

So the vortech heads dont't have provisions to set up the smog equipment? Then what would you sugest. I want a solid 300-330 rwhp to beat the ls1's.

 

The only vortec intake with EGR provisions is the GM vortec intake. Even then you have to plumb the exhaust gas externally. With a good tune, you should be able to breeze through smog.

As for keeping up with the LS1's, you'll need to have a good free flowing exhaust and step up to a 2" bore throttle body. Again the key to your success lies in tuning. Do a search for Jprevost. He has your exact combo.

 

yup, jon's car is pretty much what im modeling mine after, except im putting a more aggressive cam in.. he has the stock cam from the vortec 350 motor if im not mistaken. him or Z28 boy (Brian Annaricho) http://z28boy.cz28.com/ he has pictures, prices, part numbers, modification instructions, the whole nine yards... VERY informative... but his work is all not CA smog legal but you can get the basis of what you want from there...

 

So is there anyway to get smog to work with the vortech heads. I have a good idea of how to do the install nut not sure if it will work, also i was thinking of using a different intake. I was thinking buying the gm vortech manifold w/tbi and boring it to 2", are there any other options

 

oops i typed too quick

 

So how dificult is it to run the exhaust to the intake, also what cam do you suggest for a solid 320 rwhp and okay gas

 

Define "okay"

 

well i get 10 right now, so 15 would be a miracle. My current 350 tbi is so out of tune it's stupid.

 

also, do you think stock flat top pistons and crank will get it done

 

With a LT1 cam high 20's are not out of the question with the right gears and a good tune, and yes stock crank, rods and pistons will take the power.

So what are your plans for tuning?

 

i am currently working on that, i can't tune myself but i'm trying to get in contact with someone who can teach so i can do it myself later. I took the car to an engine specialist, you know those guys who can look at a block and tell you what size it is, and he told me that the ecu wasn't stock. I assume the engine shop my brother took the car to realized this problem and plugged a caprice or something like that ecu. So i going to be buying chips and hopefully will be able to tune myself by then. I know it so easy using the links on this website, but to me it's jibber jabber, i ama smart guy but that stuff written in chinese. So.....Does anyone that lives in Los Angeles that can tune wanna teach me and i will do my best to compensate them for their time?

 

Check the number on the computer to see if it's stock or not. It's alot better than just taking some guys word for it with no explanation.

 

I was getting 15cty/22hwy mpg with just a mail order chip, so you're definately in need of some serious chip tuning. I think Ed Wright is based out there in Cali. . . could be wrong though, but I definately think a good/well known TBI tuner is out in Cali somewhere.

 

yeah, it's pretty sad. DOES ANYONE HAVE THE NAME AND NUMBER TO A GOOD CHEAP TUNER/TEACHER?

Also, would it be a better bet to go with the lt4 or lt1 cam? I haven't really decided. Like i said, i'm for a solid 320 rwhp with a soon to be t-56 and 3.73 posi. But as of right now the gm vortech tbi manifold ported, vortech heads and holley 670 tbi is definetely in the plans. All i'm waiting on is to know the tune will be there when it's all in.

I'll be able to keep all my smog s*^t right!

I want this(below) to walk the walk

 

Believe it or not, there really aren't that many people that can tune. If you go to one of the commercial guys like Ed Write, be prepared to spend MAJOR bucks, last a I heard it was in the neighbor hood of 300-400$ and if you ever change anything you'll have to pay it again to have them retune it. The information is here for you to learn it yourself, you just have to put in the time and effort. Start now with your stock motor, get the hang of it, then when you swap your new motor in, you'll have minimal down time. DIY tuning isn't easy, and it's not for everyone. If you have a decent handle on how an engine works, and basic tuning theory like how timing and fuel ratios effect how an engine run then it won't be so bad. You just have to treat it like a class, only their is no instructor, and no book per say. Just a big room with lots of post-it notes on the wall.

Here's a good "lesson plan"

1. Become VERY good friends with the search function.
2. Start learning the lingo, there are some very good post with nothing but deffinitions, print them out and keep them by your side. Justlearning just started a thread like this.
3. Then start with this very good guide https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=288763
4. Read the guide again
5. Start writing down your questions and searching them, keeping good notes, trust me you'll forget.
6. Start posting the questions that you could not find answers for with the search button.
7. Now is the time to order your burning equipment.
9. Start tunning!

 

well, if it's going to be 300 bucks for the chip alone, and probably 300 for the equipment, i'll either hit the books or make sure that the setup i'm looking to get will get me where i need to be. Does Ed Write do top notch tuning. I don't see myself wanting much more for now. I think if i had a motor that pulled 350 hp i would be fine until i can aford an ls/t motor. It appears i'm stuck between rock and a hard place. Everyone seems pretty confident that i'l be able to take a fourth gen ls1 with the setup i spoke about, so maybe the best bet would be to just buy a chip once.

I don't know!?

 

You can get the chip burning equipment for less than 150$, I have a hard time paying some one to do something that I can learn to do. Who ever you get to tune your car, make sure they actually take your car and drive it around while they tune. Ed Write is known for his mail order chips, which is complete BS. There is no way to tune a car just from a list of specs, the computers in our cars are more complicated than the computers that took us to the moon. There is just no way to get a good tune over the phone. With that said, I don't know if I would trust my car with a guy that willingly takes peoples money and sends them his best guess as to what their car needs.

Dyno shops are your best bet for guys that know how to tune these setups.

 

yeah thats exactly what i dont want. i wish i could screw around with my stock motor but i dont know what the hell it is! My brother really screwed me when he sold me this lemon.

 

go over to the SW boards an post a "help wanted" thread. that will make sure Kevin and Don see it... if youre in the LA area, those are the guys you want to see...

 

THANKS EVERYBODY, YOU HAVE ALL BEEN A GREAT HELP. I GUESS UNLESS I LEARN TO TUNE IM SOL. DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW DIFICULT IT IS TO GET THE EXHAUST INTO THE EGR FORM THE MANIFOLD ON VORTECH HEADS? MAYBE A LINK I COULDNT FIND THROUGH SEARCHING. ALSO WILL I SAY 320 RWHP WITH THOS SETUP?AND WHTA FUEL PUMP WOULD BE BEST FOR THIS SETUP?

 

i could be wrong but the way i understand it, you can't put a truck motor into a passenger car in CA smog legally. modifying an egr to run vortec (truck) heads may stand out like a sore thumb.

 

I didn't know that. I thought that as long as it works, it works. I thought visual's purpose was to ensure that everything is hooked up.

I got a tuner! Kevin @ Dyno Don's shop in Orange. He seems like a cool guy. I let you guys know about how it comes out later. Right now i am still not sure what kind of fuel pump or ignition i'm going to get, maybe a tpi pump and something else. i really am not sure. suggestions welcome.

 

there are ways around it.... ive seen it done legally here before

 

Kevin is RAD, fuel pump suggestion, if you are going to make 300hp or more, get a Walboro 255lph, i got mine for $93 shipped, and as far as ignition, your stock one works pretty darn well for pretty much any application, just get a better set of wires and good plugs and you'll be ready to rumble..

 

sweet!
any link to how to make it legal?

 

youve gotta get a re-router kit from summit and do it that way, kevin and don did it to theirs, they know more about it than i do...

 

thanks, so, i've definetely decided on the walbro pump, lt4 cam, vortech heads, gmpp intake bored, holley 670 tbi, stock crank and pistons, 4-bolt main, upgraded coil, plugs, and wires, and hopefully i can BOOST this setup later!

 

Do a search for "Swerve-driver" he did a vortec headed motor and routed the EGR perfectly. It's a very clean setup and he has some posts with great pictures of it. Search for him and I'm sure you'll see the pics, it's the best way to go with vortecs and EGR.

 

I have a Holley Pro-Jection Intake (2" bores, w/egr provision) for the TBI system. I was going to use it on a former project, but then opted to go with the 98 LS1...

If you're interested, lemme know.

 

I keep getting mixed answers, will this setup w/ the lt4 cam get me 300 rwhp?

 

A LT4 corvett runs a 13.7@104 and makes 330 HP. The vortec heads are basically iron LT4 heads that are setup for old school blocks. The GM performance parts crate engine makes 330 HP with a cam thats slightly larger than the LT4 cam. If you figure in a 18% drivetrain loss, that puts you at 287.1 HP at the wheels which is about 25 HP behind LS1's, which would correspond to the slightly slower 1/4 mile ET of the LT4 corvetts. The crate motor numbers assume a free flowing exhaust with headers and catback. You have these don't ya?

To run with the LS1's you need to run low 13's and make another 30 HP than the crate motors, and LT4 corvetts, and possibly more if you have an automatic tranny. The only way you can do this is to port your heads, or get a bigger cam. The hot cam would get you to your desired HP level, but I dunno about emmisions. If your not doing your tuning, passing is going to be completely up to the person tuning your car.

 

i got kevin at dyno don's shop to do the tuning, so what cam do you suggest and will porting the heads get me there, what about juice? Will it work for tbi efficiently

 

Juice works with anything, and if your wanting to do that, don't even bother taking the motor apart, just put the N20 on, but that would be cheating, and what fun is it to say you beat an LS1 on "Nawwws". Porting is worth 20-30 HP if done correctly, but not really worth it if you have to tear the heads off of the motor.

The GM hot cam is good, but you really need to talk to your tuner, and see what he thinks he can get to pass smog.

 

i going to stick to my original recipe, +ported heads, and a call to crane/comp

 

"I want a solid 300-330 rwhp to beat the ls1's."

Goodluck with that. BMmonte put it pretty good. They run low 13s. And thats stock. You wont find many of those around town.

A cutout and lid (~$100) on an LS1 will break into the 12s. 2001/2002 cars almost always dyno 310-320 hp at the wheels due to their ls6 intakes. Id say a decent vortec motor will likely always lose to an ls1 due to the 275 tires and 3.42 gears (if its a t56) which both come stock.

The ls1 is a nice motor, id look into hawks if your lookin for a serious motor swap. They quoted me under $10K for a LS1/t56 swap. When i got my LS1 it was a whole different ballgame. It just pulls much stronger and gas mileage is phenomenal for a motor making over 300 horses at the wheels (i averaged 28.5 mpg on my last road trip with a few hours of city driving)

either way good luck to you. dont be afraid to spray

 

Through speaking with my chip burner, it came to my attention that beating an ls1 would be damn hard with tbi. He did say however that with tpi, it would be a cinch. So...I am a little undecided. Right now i'm geeting a fourth gen rear with 3.73 posi put in my car. Next the t-56, and then something new. And chances are, it will be sprayed.

 

I'm not so sure if it would be that much of a "cinch" on the TPI's part. My friend's L98 GTA runs in the 11's, but, this is after an extensive amount of engine work (wasn't that much of a cinch, believe me)....

B's90cam, I would seriously consider an LT1 swap. You can get an L98 to run hard, but you can get an LT1 to run even harder.... for a fraction (price-wise) more.

 

Well. i was promised and shown proof that for 4500, that's complete, no parts for the swap or anything, i can run 12's, get high 20 mpg freeway, and pass CA smog every time. i have priced both conversions and seeing as how i already have a 350, i think the best bang for the buck might be this setup with a small spray.