Battery was real low, so was the booster box, but I put an extra spark plug in the wire, cranked the engine, touched the plug and got a little spark.

From there I went on to spraying starting fluid into the TBI, and it started up and then died shortly after.

Ran a 12V wire straight to terminal G on the ALDL, didn't hear the fuel pump.


So it's either the wiring going to the fuel pump, or the fuel pump itself. I'm dropping the rear end and tank tomorrow, and then I'll stick a wire straight to the pump.


Would have finished it al ltoday but guess what I didn't get from the delaership when I got the car ... THE LOCK KEY for the fifth lug nut !!! So I couldn't drop the rear end down far enough because I didn't get the wheels off.


Anyone got any pics of their mod where they cut in the trunk and make a lid to open down to the fuel pump ? I'm going to do that tomorrow while I'm at it, makes sense ya know.

 

No it doesn't make sence . Just drop the tank and replace the pump the way it is supposed to be done. On my first fuel pump install it only took me a touch over two hours. I don't know why people complain about fuel pumps so much. It would have taken me longer to hack up the rear hatch and ghetto rig some sort of half assed trap/access door. I would get an acron fuel pressure tester and validate what you pump is actually pumping out.

 

I may not have a choice though. Kragen did not have tool so I can't remove my wheels. My best chance is that maybe the repair shop on base has one and I can borrow it for 10 minutes.


That and if I can siphon enough gas, and I should have it done in less than two hours.

 

just a lock removal tool from ur local auto part store. we have on at work that is tappered. hammer it on, and remove.

 

Well Kragen didn't have one, that's the problem and all the tire stores etc were closed

 

Drop the tank the right way. It really is easy.

Also take out the *** portion of the driver's side backseat, I think it is a 15mm bolt. Once the seat is off fish around the hole in the carpet, you'll find three wires. The black one is ground. The other two are grey and purple, one is the hot wire to the fuel pump and the other is for your fuel level gauge. It's been so many years I forgot which is which. Anyways give both of those wires 12 volts, if you can give both of those wires 12 volts and the pump never kicks on I'd say your pump is done...

 

Awesome, thanks. I'll do that tomorrow.


However I'm still going doing the cover/lid in the trunk deal. I can't get a lock removal key right now. And besides it'll be easier next time I change fuel pumps anyway (which will have to happen once I do some real mods to the engine)

 

May be too late to try that though. I already disconnected the fuel lines, muffler is hanging down too. I'm mostly concerned about fumes and spark combination.

 

I would put a Walbro or TPI pump in it right now then. A walbro pump can be sent to your door for $97 and will support 600hp. You can still drop the rear if the wheels are on it.

You will not be happy with a hack job access door. Try a search or two and read up on why it is a bad idea. You will spend more time in the long run.

 

I don't see why people say it's a time consuming or hard job...

 

I replaced the fuel pump recently (the "correct") way and I have to admit it was a bee-otch. On par with the heater core replacement, which was finished about a month prior.

The re-deeming grace of doing it the proper way is knowing it was done right and not having a hole chopped in the cargo area of my car.

To justify the work, I had to visualize what people would say about that car 25 years in the future.

Seller: "This car is sweet, except the owner hacked up the body to chop in a fuel pump. The only possible side effect (aside from the obvious decrease in value) is the old and aged high pressure hose connections cracking, catching fire from the muffler and burning you and/or your lovely family to a crisp. More dead than fried chicken, if that is possible. Of course, we don't know when that will happen....."

Buyer: "Oh....., I see....."

Maybe I am just saying that because it was a lot of work, not sure. Regardless, I am thrilled to pieces with the performance of the new pump.

Also, Brody has an excellent point as far as insuring that the pump is actually the culprit.

Best-
S-D

 

No idea about third gens, but I will not own an off-road K5 without a hole above the tank. I've had one trip ruined by a dead fuel pump, and dropping that 30+ gallons of fuel from a lifted truck is a SoB, especially on a trail. Just replaced what I thought was a bad pump (turned out to be problems in the regulator) with a 30 psi 454 pump last week end on a (for this area) cold windy night. Sure was nice to be finished and putting up the tools in 15 minutes...

 

Well if we would start talking about value of car and keeping everything stock, a lot of people with 67 through 69 Camaro's would look real bad since one rarely sees one nowadays in stock form, but with flame or different paint job, at least a 360, slammed to the bottom etc.


I'm not worried about the carpet either right now, I was intending on replacing it with black sooner or later anyway.


Plus the lid will be a better custom looking one anyway.


Warlbro pump would be nice yes, however until I have the car setup to adjust fuel pressure and have learned how to do PROM burning, what for ?


Besides going away next week so I need my babe running ASAP !! Only thing that has saved me so far is that I'm one of the few living close to the base, on a road everyone passes going to the base so I can always get a ride.



However going to the store by bus .. hrrrmmmm nothing I really like.

 

The fuel pressure regulator will keep the fuel pressure entering in the TBI where it needs to be. Your feed line pressure is increased which will be there for you when you need it.

 

How much more flow would a TPI pump provide ? I could maybe get one from Kragen, it would be a regular replacement pump right ? Like a '91 Z28 correct ?


Also, where is the inline fuse for the fuel pump, I may or may not have checked one.

Is it underneath the backseat ?

 

OK for a minute I was hoping there was another fuse, never mind, I did already check the inline fuse (passenger side fender, between battery and overflow bottle, 20A fuse)


Last step before I pull the pump is removing the passenger seat, turning on the ignition, and test for power in the tan or slightly greyish wire, should be 12V there, tiny bit of voltage in the purple one and black one is ground (which I'll check as well)

 

ooppsss meant driver's seat, that's what i already removed heh

 

Had to take a break after a few hours, there were three of us working on it, trying to get the damn tank out.

I don't know whether it's an aftermarket jerryrigged deal or one of the reasons for the 91 recalls, but that filler neck caused a lot of problems. It was the filler neck alone, that got caught and stuck all the time, since it's a fixed one and maybe not the original one.

Cut it off after we had it removed from the car, and woaw the inside tube, woaw badly jerryrigged. The entire tank must have been removed at one time and messed up.


Now I'm getting fuel resistant hose and modifying the bad filler neck so it'll be a flexible one.

And it'll cost me a new muffler, I'll probably run a cheap straight through, single for now. Yes, had to cut the exhaust, cat converter was stuck so bad couldn't loosen those bolts up. Besides the exhaust tubing before the muffler itself, already had holes in it.


I never got to cut an actual hole in the trunk sheet metal, cut the carpet but who cares, I'm getting black carpeting sooner or later anyway.

This has been a complete nightmare, just like with the intake manifold swap, where someone had jerryrigged around it too.


Let's face it, 14 year old car, which I'm fixing up to make it right, fixing previous owner's ****ups.

 

After breaking loose the locking ring that holds the whole fuel pump assembly in the tank, I gave it a good shot of compressed air to blow all the crap away from the opening prior to removing the assembly.

I also had to go to a NAPA and buy a new locking ring and gasket.

After seeing the work requried to get the tank out, I got a better feel for the reasons why people sometimes cut the body to replace the pump.

best-
S-D

 

Also-
I have never gotten the chance to see the inside of a filler neck. If you cut it, would there be any chance of taking a pic?

I just wonder if there are any baffles or anti-siphon do-dads hanging around in there.

S-D

 

Actually, I finally got a chance to test the old fuel pump, now that my battery was fully charged, and the old pump works. Wish I had known before I dropped the new one in, oh well.

Car cranked up and died ... still nothing.

I still get a Code 54.



WHERE exactly is the ground for the fuel pump hooked up ? I know it's the black wire, I know it runs underneath the carpet, but my question is, where does the black wire actually touch bare body metal, i.e. ground ?


I tried terminal G with 12V, still no result, so either faulty ground or faulty circuit 120, i.e. the wiring to the pump.

 

What's really irritiaging about all this is ... the timing i.e. Christmas i.e. money already running low anyway.. and the fact that I "wasted" money on a damn pump even though maybe not a bad idea considering the strainer was ripped to pieces anyway. And now I'll have to do something about the exhaust.

Money that could have been spent on chip burning equipment instead

 

i have to do this on a 91 RS TOO now!


i ran out of gas, and now it wont start! i tried putting gas in the intake and it worked and then died, so we figure its the pump.

anything i should try though before i pull the rear?

 

Before you do that, try to see whether the relay may be bad, or the fuel pump driver on the ECM is fried.

My problem wasn't the fuel pump, which I figured out AFTER I had replaced it.


Did you check the fusable link, did you check the wiring etc


Fuel pump relay, put power to the red wire, and see if you get the pump to come on, actually gray wire will work too.

That's how I'm running it right now, hotwired.

 

well this whole problem started when i ran out of gas. It just didnt start after that.
apparently its common for fuel pumps to go if you run out of gas often

 

It is, the pump is lubricated by the fuel, and also cooled by the fuel, running it dry, you loose your coolant, and lube. Its like running your engine with no coolant or oil.

 

ouch

 

Easiest tests:


Crawl under your car. Reach up wih your hand, use a flashlight, disconnect the wire connectors that go from the fuel pump to the bulkhead connector.

You'll have three wires on one conenctor, gray one, purple one, black one.

Connect a wire to the black one and ground it.

Connect a wire fro mthe battery to the gray wire.


See if your pump runs now.

 

I'm going through the same fun right now. The pump runs but it don't have the power to push the required PSI to run the car. Since I have procrastinated and checked everything else, I'll drop it out today. This beater came out of germany so every bolt I twist snaps in 2. If it weren't for that, everything else so far has been easy money.
Before I get told, all the fuses, relays, and filters were good and I could still hear the pump humming. All the lines were blown free and still nothing. Injectors were getting juice. But dump gas some down the TBI and it would fire.
Let me go get some more bloddy knuckles and some stink finger and I'll let you know if the beater has life after death.

 

Well the sawz-all fixed the exhaust and had to bend the filler neck to pull it but it finnally give it up. Had the pump cchanged in about 20 mins. Air ratchet give up, had to do thing the cave man way. I put all the lines back together and pimed it 2 or 3 times with 5 gal of 91 Octane and it started right up and never missed a beat. Now I have to go to Lowe's and find some suspension bolts in the morn. I need to go, I smell like an old Camaro.

PS Who in their right mind would hack up their car to do this? A truck and a jeep is one thing but a car? When you are miles from the nearest human and need to fix your rig, you do what you have to, but in your own garage, hack up your car? Oh well it's your car, not mine.

 

Who hacked up what car ?

 

i saw different posts from all sorts of people that wanted to create an "acces hatch" to make it easier to get to the fuel pump. As often as they go out, I thought that was overkill. I could never figure out if they went through with it or not. But as I said, not my car why should I care?

seen any posts on fan relays? thtas my next adventure. Tracking down why the fan won't kick on.

 

I was going to make an access door because I couldn't drop the rear end, no way for me to remove my wheels right now, however we ended up pulling the thing out anyway, although took us a few hours, and four or five guys trying filler neck getting in the way.



What do you need to know about the fan relay ? Unfortunately I don't have my old scanner hooked up, or I would scan ya the diagrams from the factory manual.

 

I hopped over to the tech sites and found it there. (the diagrams)
Alot of people had the same problems as me.

See, the car has been sitting here in Vegas for about 3 yrs. It had one problem after another. So when it wouldn't start, they parked. Well he had to move to Alaska and refused to take it. I picked it up. So after fixing the FP, I drove it around the block a few times. It starting heating up. That was one of the problems they had with it before I got it. But I shut it down at about 210. But after reading, that is the operating range of these cars. So I will let it warm up again tomorrow to 220 or more and see if the fan kicks on at all. Every other car has their thermostat open at 180 except for these. I guess they have to keep us on our toes.
If not, I'll look into the relay and change that out. The previous owners had a new rad, thermostat and hoses installed, so it shouldn't be those.

The car has brand new tires that are shot. They are dry rotted and lumpy. It has grunt though, I want to take it out and wring it out, but for my own safety, I can't go past second gear, gets kind of squirrely.

 

we had the pump changed in under two hours.

DONT HACK UP YOUR CAR

 

Zion,
obviously you must have been able to take off your wheels, I couldn't


Beater,
run a manual switch for the wire. Splice it into the fan switch it self, or splice it into the green/white wire on the fan relay (HOWEVER makle sure it's the fan relay and not the fuel pump relay, I made that misstake )
Previous owner had a new thermostat installed, well was it a factory one, GM's 195 ? Or was it a 180 ?

 

I'm going to try to change the relay first. If that don't work, I'll do the switch. Just easier than chasing wires, relays, links, CTS, etc...


Here in Vegas everyone jumps at the 180 thermostat. I'll go check his old recipts and see if they put it on there. He usually took it to Ted Weins to have all the work done. I want to get the fan to kick on before I decarbon the engine with the SEAFOAM engine cleaner. (new engine in a bottle) It works for me.

 

Nothing wrong with the 180, as long as ya don't get a 160.

 

i just sagged the rear...

had to remove my exhaust where it bolted to the cat (no big deal) and also the sway bar and something else i cant remember right now.

we had the tank out and new pump in it in 40 min.

 

We couldn't even get the rear down at all, but yeah had to cut the exhaust in same exact spot you cut it

 

i didnt cut it! i unbolted it!


it was a pain though, twisting that bastard so it would come out from the back, and then putting it back in

 

oh ok well I tried unbolting it, those bolts are STUCK RUSTED together, so I'm going to run a different muffler there now

 

I was the one that had to cut my exhaust. I cut it right before the muffler, I couldn't get it separated. I have a little splatterbox and welded it back together when I was done.

I got to use my new Dewalt cordless sawzall I got for xmas!!!

 

get a 12 point socket that you dont care about thats roughly the same size as your lug nut but big enough so you can pound and wedge it in your lock nut.Then turn it with a good breaking bar.

 

Just because you wire the pump outside of the car DOES NOT MEAN ITS FINE.

My pump went bad and we wired it outside of the car and it ran, but once we put the new pump in, the car would start up, so don't go on that alone.

 

The new pump is already in anyway. And I still have the problem. Most likely I fried the fuel pump driver on the ECM.

As I said, right now running the car with the new pump in, and I have to hotwire it underneath the hood.

 

Auto zone was able to test my fan relay. Take your FP relay to them (or a knowledgable sales person ) and have them test it. There are lots of fuses and fusible links in between the battery and ECM. You might want to recheck them. Those would fail first.

The reason I say that is because I never heard of frying just a certain operating systen in an ECM. That not to say it isn't possible, because anything is, just never heard of that before. I would say if it still runs, then the ECM is still good.

 

By grounding the green/white wire to the fuel pump relay, I most likely fried the transistor in the fuel pump drive circuit in the ECM.

I ran al lthe tests this time, got the factory manual, even measured resistance in the relay, 60 ohm as it's supposed to be.

So ECM is bad or there's a ground or open in circuit hmm I think it was circuit 465 (don't have the manual next to me right now)