I've been trying to think of a way to get around chip tuning so I can build a 400 horse tbi 350, but I can't figure out how to get around the map sensor. Question 1: will a larger cam, manifold and ported heads pull more or less vaccum? 2: How can I fool the map sensor into thinking there's the correct amount of vaccum in the manifold? 3: Even if there is less vaccum than normal why can't I just increase/decrease the fuel pressure until it's at the proper air/fuel ratio?

 

NOT going to HAPPEN, SORRY, end of story

400HP=Lots of chip tuning

 

Well, it might seem like tunning is the way to go. And believe me it is. But if you can't tune and don't wanna pay for it, it could be a tricky thing.

First. Get a carb! I know you have emission testing, but Carb and no computer will let you run whatever you please.

Secon. If you are sticking with TBI I would search for a TBI friendly cam.
You can get 400horses out of the 350 but your cam is not going to be as agressive, as if you are running a carb.

I would recomend you look at adelbrock. They have proven combos that you can get.
There are some where they provide the intake and the heads with a tuned chip to run that set up (Free of charge, but you pay up the butt for everything else).
That would be probably the best way to go if you don't want to tune.
Is it worth it??

Probably if you are really not trying to modify heads and/ or intake, and just wanna buy one that will work!

Goodluck my Denver friend!!

 

Actually I already have a setup planned, but the problem is I have a budget of about $2500 and I want to get to 400+ hp. I know it's possible to get around the ecm programming, I just need a better understanding of the changes in manifold pressure that a larger intake setup will cause. Right now I have 2 ideas I want to test on an engine that'll get me past the map sensor. 1) If the engine produces roughly twice as much hp as stock each cylinder bank can be treated like a separate engine with a separate throttle body for each bank. I wouldn't have to use two separate ecm's if I split the injector wires to each throttle, so if the map sensor is hooked up to a manifold that's split into 2 chambers the ecm will automatically compensate for the other side. 2) Use a 454 throttle body and split the manifold in half so the map sensor would only read half the psi then adjust the fuel psi accordingly, but since chevy engines don't consistently fire left/right it could cause a higher or lower vaccum than the opposite bank, causing that bank to run lean at certain times. I want to avoid a carb because, like you said emissions are crap here. Plus I can squeeze a few extra hp out of an injected system I couldn't get with a carb.

 

I'd like to see you run 400 RWHP out of a TBI 350 on the stock chip.

 

If it happens I'll post what I did here so everyone can save a few bucks.

 

Map sensor reads vacum from the manifold so if you find a way to manipulate it, it could defenetly make things easier for you!

Do the heads intake, try to stay away from the cam and compensate with supercharger or NOS.

Get adjustable fuel preassure regulator and NOS it!

 

WHY are you going to the attempt to not burn your own chips. I built a 305 headed RV cammed 355 that I ran on the stock 350 chip for a while. I made an Adjustable MAP sensor, added a VAFPR, raised the fuel pressure, advanced the timing, etc just to make it get me to work and back. The engine never made the power it should. I started buring chips, got rid of the adjustable MAP, worked around the VAFPR and the engine ran great.

 

Because I don't want to do it myself and probably end up breaking more parts than using them and I don't want to pay some guy $300 for a chip that's 'close enough'. If I can find a cheaper way to get the same results I'll always take that route.

 

And your previous ideas wouldn't be doing this?

Burning your own chips doesn't require and splicing and or splitting.

You don't have to because $200 will buy you all of the stuff to do it yourself. You can burn as many chips as you want then.


This route would be to learn how to data log and burn your own chips. This is the solution to the problem and it will be required to make power with TBI. You cannot band aid these cars. They will not tollerate it and you cannot "trick" them into doing what you want them to. There are certain things in the chip that you cannot dance around (injector constants, varying fuel pressure, spark and fuel tables, ect ect). Take it from all of us who have been modding these cars (and chips) for years.

 

Sorry bluechrome, it ain't gonna happen..
It WILL NEED tuning, and lots of it.

Mine makes a bit more than 400 hp and it won't even come close to running on a stock chip, no matter what you do..

 

I agree, but I can modify the fuel psi, buy different injectors, an ignition box or a programmable distributer can't I? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't modifying a car's design the escence of hot rodding nomatter how you do it? Thanks for trying to get me on the proven path but I'm not asking to be told what I should do, I'm asking for info to help me with what I plan to do.

 

I have played with changing the fuel pressure during load changes (VAFPR) and it is just too imprecise. It runs, but NOTHING like when it was properly tuning.. Someone else at the time said "its like trying to shoot a mouse with a buffalo gun"..

 

You have good intentions but you are misguided. I hope we can help. We don’t mean to rain on your parade so don’t take it as such.

Adding larger injectors doesn't get you anywhere. They are not like a light bulb. You don't just plug in a higher rated injector and have it work. There are parameters in the chip that control specific injector data. This data is different for each TBI injector out there. You have to change constants, pulse width, ect ect. You cannot do this by changing the fuel pressure alone. You need to control the mechanisms inside the injector by digging into its brain. The chip has spark tables that it references for proper timing. I am not sure even sure what a programmable distributor would do no less how you would take timing responsibilities away from the chip.

If you really want to dodge chip work than you need to convert to a carb set-up. A carb set-up can be mechanically tweaked. An electronically controlled closed loop system cannot.

 

Putting in larger injectors and tweaking the FPR can work if the new engine makes power at a similar RPM range. A VAFPR can compensate somewhat on the top end as well. I had a VAFPR in my car and I didn't like it, it just seemed very unreliable to me, but the engine still ran decent enough to where I could drive around, get decent mileage and race, but changing to the prominator setup with the wideband was the way to go. Prom editing isn't as painful as it may seem.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of ball type injectors (vs. pintle type) coupled with higher fuel psi, but there isn't much of a market for tbi injectors so that throws my notion out the window. I don't want to build a drag machine, I just want a decent daily driver that can lay the power down when a r**e boy or a fellow hot rodder thinks they're hot s**t. I won't care if it runs a little rough on the low end, just as long as I can keep it from leaning out up top. By the way, does anyone know how to "chemically port" an aluminum manifold? I've been told you're supposed to put salt mixed with battery acid where you want aluminum removed then put a 9 volt battery to it, or was this guy full of bs?

 

Anyone? I know I've seen someone talk about it on a forum here, but I did a search and couldn't find anything.

 

It seems like you keep making things harder for yourself, just go buy a dremel or die grinder and some porting bits

 

Actually I've already ported the manifold as much as I can with a die grinder, but to port the runners out I have to cut them open then weld them shut again, so I'd rather port them chemically. The only thing that's been difficult so far is finding a way to bypass the map sensor, otherwise it's pretty much a regular build.

 

Because there is not any reason to "BYPASS" the MAP. If anything, that will make it run even worse.

 

Exactly.

How do you plan on making a closed loop fuel injection system work without dynamic vacuum inputs? That is like saying you want to use a gun without bullets to shoot something.

 

 

I'm not trying to completely remove it from the system that would be impossible and completely pointless. Maybe you misunderstood what I'm trying to do here. The engine I'm building will make about twice as much hp as stock thus it will take in twice as much air, so I'm trying to make the map sensor read the vaccum for one cylinder bank (half the vaccum) to keep it from reading a higher vaccum than normal. With 2 tbi's hooked up to the same ecm each will automatically meter the correct amount of fuel for both banks. I'm only going to "bypass" the map functions for one cylinder bank. Regardless, I'm not getting an awnser to the questions I started this post for, so (a) if an engine takes in twice as much air as stock through 20% larger runners and a larger cam with more duration is it pulling more or less vaccum than stock? (b) how do I "chemically port" aluminum?

 

BTW, the vacuum reading will be roughly the same for 4 cylinders vs 8. Your standard TBI sits on a dual plane manifold. Changing to Dual TBIs is more involved than you think. Just because you have 2x the power doesn't necessarily mean that you will have 2x the air flow or even then 2x the fuel. Its called VE and BSFC. What are you going to do about idle, a more efficient engine will typically need less fuel and less air at idle and give a higher vacuum reading. That throws your theory of twice the power being feed acurately by two TBIs. As you mod the engine it will need different amounts of fuel at different RPMs and different loads. Let me give you this scenario. Lets say you have a small cam, good flowing heads. At idle you will probably use LESS fuel than stock, as the RPMs increase @ WOT you will need more fuel, at peak torque (4,000) the factory tune is already peaked out on fuel delivery and going the opposite direction(most TBI engines peak in the low-mid 2,000 rpm range), cutting fuel. Your engine maybe needing the most fuel at 4,000+. My old LT1 cammed ported swirl port headed single plane intake 355 was a good example of this. It would pull 22 in/hg of vacuum @ 700 rpm. If you held the rpms up around 2,000 it went to 25 in/hg. Cruising down the highway with 3.08 gears in OD doing 70 mph it still had 15 in/hg of vacuum. I fired it up with the stock chip after I built it. Ran TERRIBLE compared to when I got around to tuning it. This is where you are going. TRUST ME, I tried everything around trying to bypass tuning myself, It CAN'T be done without tuning.

Not to mention the numberous other things that need to be addressed in the chip anyway.

NO CHEAP way around tuning, PERIOD.

 

How the hell are you going to make the map sensor read half the engine? The engine uses a common manifold. You'd need a manifold per bank, completely independent, to do what you're proposing with the MAP sensor. Utterly ridiculous!

 

Thank you! That's exactly the awnser I've been looking for! If I would've known it was already a dual plane I would've ditched the tbi ecm from the start. I know what volumetric efficiency and brake specific fuel consumption are and how they effect an engine's performance at a given rpm. A 350 with 9.5/1 compression would need about 310cfm to make 200 hp @ 5000rpm and about 620cfm to make 400hp at 5000rpm so airflow doubles when hp doubles as long as VE stays the same. All engines need twice the fuel flow for twice the hp because fuel demand is a factor of airflow and burn efficiency, not VE. The amount of fuel needed to combust a given amount of air at a given pressure is constant regardless of engine volume or load. What gives a naturally aspirated street driven engine the ability to produce twice as much hp is more the cam and the compression ratio than anything else.

The map sensor already reads half the engine, that's what fast355 just explained. What makes having a separate manifold with a separate tbi for each bank ridiculous? CFI manifolds already have 2 tbi's, why couldn't I divide one with a piece of aluminum?

A CFI ecm reads vaccum from a single plane manifold, so why couldn't I use one in place of a tbi ecm? As long as it makes power near the rpm the original engine did what's stopping me?

 

Vacuum does not work in this fashion. It is a pressure (kpa, psia, in of water column, etc.), not a flow (CFM, g/s, etc.). Each cylinder draws the same amount of vacuum during their respective intake stroke while only flowing 1/8th (for a V8 anyways) of total engine flow. To get the total engine flow you simply add the flow of all eight cylinders together. Not true for vacuum. As a result the vacuum reading, as viewed by the Map sensor, would be the same with a single plane or a dual plane intake. That is why manipulating the Map sensor signal would not work easily or consistantly. If you want to see for yourself, put a single plane intake on in place of the stock dual plane intake and measure the vacuum. I'm not trying to flame you, just trying to convey my point.

Another note, even though the tbi uses a dual plane intake the map sensor takes its vacuum signal from the bottom of the tbi unit nullifying any preceived vacuum segregation caused by the intake.

 

Exactly what I was trying to say. It uses a dual plane intake, but they are tied togather with crossover passages.


Bluechrome-The other thing that you need to get into your head is that just because an engine takes 2x the air does not mean that it will make 2x the power or even use 2x the fuel. Brake Specific Fuel Consumption or BSFC for short plays a big part in it. I can make a wasteful 250 HP engine or an efficient 400 hp engine, pick one. They both may take the same amount of fuel, just one makes more useable power out of it. Take the standard old LM1 250 HP 350 and the 330 HP HO 350. The HO 350 will beat the living daylights out of the LM1 in EVERYTHING, Horsepower, Torque, even fuel mileage. Mainly due to the fact that it has incredibly efficient (for Gen 1 SBC) heads on it and a decent, newer cam profile.

 

So vaccum is constant regardless of the number of cylinders drawing on a space of whatever size? It seems to me that if the same vaccum is applied to twice the volume (2 tbi's) the vaccum would fall to half, so if the tbi's are separated (via the manifold being split in half) the vaccum would double for both, which would give the correct vaccum reading. I'm going to try it to verify for myself.

Right, but like I said as long as VE stays the same it WILL need twice the airflow and twice the fuel. Comparing an inefficient 250 hp (~80% VE) engine to an efficient 400 hp engine (~85-90% VE) is like apples and oranges. I don't expect it to run perfect from the start or make the hp I want, I just want to get the basic setup running so when I can afford the extra parts I'll need to make more hp I can do it. My engine will still have the same poential to make 400+ hp as efficiently as any other engine would wether it gets 20mpg or 10mpg when it's built. I can always go back later and do the tuning when I have the money and experience for it, then gain more hp than I could with a single tbi setup. I'm not PO'ed and I'm not trying to make anyone PO'ed I'm just convinced I can make this work, if it doesn't it was still worth a try.

 

This doesn't make sense. Ignore the fact that the MAP vacuum port is physically on the TBI itself. As far as the vacuum signal concerned (barring transient conditions, which is fair here), it is the same whether it is measured at TBI 1, TBI 2, any place inside the manifold, or any port that goes to the manifold's plenum (EITHER plane). Doesn't matter if it has a carb or three. Doesn't matter if it has a mono-blade TB with sequential EFI. Same plenum, same vacuum.

 

I think you need to start doing a whole lot of reading and research as to how an engine works. You've got a lot of things as far as engine theory all screwed up. If you build a 400 horse engine and try to run it like your proposing, it will either never get out of the driveway or you'll do serious damage to it trying to make it run like that.

Vacuum is something that doesn't change from engine to engine or displacement to displacement or whatever variable you may change. eg. when you go wide open throttle in any engine you will hit at or around 100 MAP reading, which is zero vacuum. Because the throttle is open completely there is zero vacuum in the motor. It doesn't matter what kind of induction or engine or anything. A TBI 305 will go to zero vacuum at WOT, a Ford motor will go to zero vacuum, a Dodge.... you get the point. You speak of vacuum as if it has something to do with your air/fuel flow and/or power output when in fact it has nothing to do with power output.

 

That's exactly what Fast355 and Bones 232 are trying to get me to understand. Regardless of how much air the engine takes in or how many ports are drawing from the manifold the vaccum will be close to the same because vaccum is a constant. Pressure isn't a quantity of material, it's a measure of the amount of force a thing exerts on another thing.

 

You, uh, contradicted yourself.

 

How?

 

I think you need to start doing a whole lot of reading and research as to how an engine works. You've got a lot of things as far as engine theory all screwed up... You speak of vacuum as if it has something to do with your air/fuel flow and/or power output when in fact it has nothing to do with power output. [/QUOTE]

EVERYONE READ THIS CAREFULLY- Vaccum has everything to do with power output because if an engine had no vaccum it wouldn't be able to draw air and fuel into the cylinder. It doesn't matter if it's carbureted or fuel injected as long as it's naturally aspirated it has to respond to the vaccum in the throttle to properly meter fuel. Vaccum is the deficit of pressure below atmospheric pressure, when an engine creates vaccum in a manifold (or tbi or whatever) atmospheric pressure forces more air in to fill the deficit of pressure created. When an engine hits WOT there's still a vaccum because the pistons traveling down in their cylinders create a vaccum to suck in air. Air also rubs against the ports, valves, runners, manifold, throttle and everything else as it travels into the cylinders which also creates vaccum because airflow is restricted by these things, this is the basis of efficiency. The more efficiently an engine can move air into itself the higher the volumetric efficiency. When an engine has a VE of 80% it means that 80% of the atmosphere's pressure has filled it, the other 20% was restricted by the engine's internal workings. The reason the map sensor reads 100% at full throttle is because the throttle is completely filled with air, there's still vaccum below it to draw more air in, otherwise air wouldn't flow through the throttle. When the throttle is closed and the map reads 20% (or whatever it reads) 80% of the atmosphere's pressure is being restricted by the throttle blades, leaving 20% of the atmosphere's pressure in the manifold (which the bottom of the tbi is then part of). The purpose of the map sensor is to tell the ecm how much less air is entering the engine than at atmospheric pressure, so if the map sensor registers 50% half the atmosphere's pressure is in the manifold. When the ecm calculates the amount of air it's taking in it first measures the rpm to find the max cfm it can take in, then measures the throttle angle to deturmine the max cfm it can take in at that position, it measures the air temp to find the actual air density, then subtracts the vaccum the map sensor says exists from that density and deturmines exactly how much air is flowing into the engine by comparing the actual density to the max cfm it can take in at that time. It can then calculate the proper amount of fuel to add and the correct spark timing based on preprogrammed factors (compression ratio, cam specs, flow ratings, VE, ect.). You don't have to know anything about engine design to understand the reasons it works, it's basic physics. That said, what I'm trying to do is get the correct amount of vaccum in a dual tbi setup. When you switch from a single tbi to dual tbi's the vaccum drops to half (at idle) in each tbi because the same vaccum is drawn through 2 throttles that together equal twice the size of the original, so to correct this the vaccum source for the tbi's must be separated. When the manifold is split in half each tbi recieves the proper vaccum reading (at idle) because the same vaccum is then applied to half the space. The only reason I need to split the manifold with dual tbi's is so the ecm recieves the correct vaccum signal from one throttle, I'm not trying to get extra hp by manipulating it.

 

If my understanding of the changes in manifold vaccum that having 2 tbi's instead of one on the same manifold would cause are wrong and the same vaccum would be pulled through 2 tbi's as with 1 what's the problem? The map sensor would sense the correct vaccum and I wouldn't have to split the manifold or do anything else. So if that's the case why couldn't someone have told me that from the start?!!

 

The ECM DOES NOT use the TPS to calculate airflow. It is a lookup table of MAP vs. RPM vs. VE. The TPS is there for the TCC, AE, PE, etc. The MAP is used in almost everything.

Vacuum is not=HP. I can have a 160 HP stock 305 with the stock cam that idles with 23 in/hg or I can take my cammed and heads 312 that idles with 12-13 in/hg and makes nearly 2x the HP. While it is true that the greater the VE of an engine the more HP it can make, the fact is that cam overlap, stroke, compression ratio, timing, a/f ratio, etc, ALL effect engine vacuum. Lets not forget Brake Specific Fuel Consumption which you keep forgetting, putting in a bigger cam will typically increase BSFC and decrease engine vacuum. The MAP will now read higher, changing the corresponding result of the look-up table, the ECM now believes that the engine is under load and dumps fuel. I need to plug in the stock 305 ecm that I have, let it try to run my 305, record it, and show it to you here. YOU WILL LAUGH as it blows smoke, won't idle, barely runs, etc. Then I will plug my current ECM in, it will start, run, (idles with a lope) then I can run a 16.3 @ 86 mph and go to the track and back at 22 MPG highway.

You have the idea of the MAP sensor wrong. It is simply an electronic ABSOLUTE Pressure gauge. It will put out almost 5 volts with atmospheric pressure and drop down to about 1 volt with 20 in/hg of vacuum on it. At 13 in/hg vacuum it will read about 2.8 volts. The voltage reading is then converted from analog to digital by the ECM and used by the ECM. The MAP reading and RPM are compared in a look-up table, that combined with the BPWC (which relates injector size to engine size), and a half dozen other things, calculates the pulse width to the injectors.

 

Read here to get a basic understanding of the 1227747 TBI ecm which is very similar to the 8746 and even the later speed density PCMs.

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/S.../prog_101.html

http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/papers/tunetip.html

http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/ecm_info/1227747/

http://www.customefis.com/GMEFI.html

 

Just for the sake of arguement, lets jump into the VE thing (and only at WOT). How do you plan to double your airflow without increasing your VE? Sounds like you need to increase displacement. If the 350 tbi listed in your avatar is your baseline, it is probably in the neighborhood of 65-70% VE. With all else equal, it looks like you would have to increase your displacement to somewhere around 572ci to get your 400hp. (note: calcs are very generalized. Many, many, many other factors affect power output). Not too realistic or cost effective setup.

 

I can't believe how much of a mess this is turning into.

Look Chrome, all the manifolds you're ever going to use on an SBC can be considered to have a common plenum. That includes dual plane, single plane, long runner, short runner, and ANY type of EFI you can imagine. Once you understand that, you'll understand that adding TBIs won't change the vacuum signal, because each TBI is still measuring the absolute pressure of the common plenum.

 

I only have one disagreement here. There are some companies making Individual Runner fuel injection systems for small block chevrolets. Thats right 8 throttle bodies and 8 injectors. The combined airflow potential is over 2,000 CFM!!!!

The MAP however still gets its signal from more than one throttle body, via common plumbing. The common plumbing also allows air from the IAC to reach every cylinder. Even if it didn't the signal would still be about the same, just not as steady.

http://home.cfl.rr.com/dood/forsale.html

 

The tps isn't used to calculate airflow? I thought it was... anyway, I know the amount of vaccum doesn't equal how much hp it can make, that's what I just got done explaining! An engine only needs vaccum (along with sevral other factors) to deturmine how much fuel it needs. But like I said without vaccum no engine would be able make any hp because it wouldn't be able to move air and fuel! Bones232, I guess the engine size would have to increase to double the hp, but I was just trying to prove that airflow has to double for hp to double with the same VE, it's all theory anyway.

 

Thanks, that's the awnser I was looking for. Sorry it took so much arguing to get to it. I still have one question though, if a certain amount of vaccum is drawn in a space of a given size, then the same amount of force used to achieve that vaccum in the original space is applied to a space half the size of the original would the vaccum be twice as high?

 

What you are refering to here is Plenum Volume. The system will quickly reach equilibrium when the engine starts. The plenum volume within reason will not really effect idle vacuum. What that means is that the engine is pulling in a certain amount of air fuel mixture at say 700 rpm, the throttle lets in a certain amount of air/fuel mixture to maintain 700 rpm, the system is in equilibrium, the engine will make a certain vacuum number, say 15 in/hg. The difference in the plenum volume shows up in the upper rpm ranges and in transition to WOT.

Now lets say that you leave the minimum idle setting alone on the throttle bodies. You add a second throttle body. The engine used to idle at about 700 rpm, now the throttle bodies flow 2x as much at the same throttle setting. It now wants to idle at about 1,400 rpm, this is because you just messed with the equilibrium.

Now change the cam, the engine has less vacuum, and wants a higher idle speed. You will have to open up the throttle plates to let in the additional air/fuel mixture. After my cam swap, before I set my minimum idle screw, I was at an IAC count of near 100 idling in park/neutral. Typical for TBI is about 5-20. The cam threw off the equilibrium, lowered the idle speed, and increased the needed air at idle.

 

Remember, don't get volume and pressure confused. A larger space will take longer to fill than a small space. But they will fill to the same press under the same conditions.

Fast - ya beat me to it

 

So what's the IAC for then? Isn't it supposed to let more air in to correct the idle speed?

 

It's a precisely computer controlled vacuum leak. At idle, the throttle blades allow a given amount of air past them (when the throttle is said to be closed). Usually, this setting should be the engine's minimum idle rpm, the lowest possible operating rpm. Then the IAC opens up like a small vacuum leak and lets air bypass the throttle blades (which also means less air to help atomize the fuel) to maintain the idle RPM the ECM calls for. It's also used for A/C to maintain a steady idle under changing idle loads, as well as a "stall saver" where it opens up more if the ECM senses the engine is about to stall (sudden drop in rpm). There is a throttle follower, which opens the IAC as the throttle opens, so that when you slam the throttle closed, the engine doesn't stall because the IAC is open a bit. And there's VSS vs IAC steps which sort of accomplishes the same thing, so that if you let off the gas at 60mph, the engine doesn't go to idle rpm, which could increase the chance for a stall (dangerous) or maybe not have enough rpm for the power steering pump to keep up during an evasive manuever.

 

Wow, I mean wow.......I don't know to say.

You can take this anyway you like, but if you have the money to buy a cam, headers, and an intake you can afford to to get tuning equipment and do it right. Seriously though, you don't need to be messing with your car right now. You need to get the data logging equipment (50$) and start learning. Start out small with an open element air cleaner, then maybe exhaust. You'll learn as you go, this way you'll still have a car to drive while you learn how engines really work. If you just bolt this stuff together you'll blow it up...period, If it'll even stay running long enough for you do this. We speak with experience here, your ECM is a complicated beast, and trying to "trick" the map sensor to make 400hp is like sticking your finger in light socket, your gonna get zapped.

 

Well I'm old fashioned. Believe me this isn't the first engine I've built, but it is my first efi engine. I have the headers, pistons, cam and everything else to build a long block but that's because I've had all that crap sitting in the garage for years. So when I finally decided to put it all together with my tax return I had to balance what to put into the engine with a new tranny, a fresh paint job (and body work) and some interior parts I need to make it look decent. I thought I could get away with not tuning it for a while so I could get everything else, but I guess efi is more tempermental than I thought. I would try to tune it myself, but I have enough trouble sending an email.