I have just data logged my camaro on a short drive. Can someone take a look at what i have and tell me what it all means? I did get the idle to run better by adjusting the TPS, which i couldnt really get a hand on with the volt meter before, but now that I got a ALDL cable, i was able to adjust it really close. Here is my data log file:

 

First couple things that jumped out at me were the malfunction codes, seems you have a VSS and IAT low code thrown. It looks like both sensors are working fine now, so these were probably set when you had one of those sensors unhooked with the car on. Clear your codes and see if they come back, if they do you may have a loose connection somewhere. I had this happen with a coolant sensor, it would run fine but get an intermitten rich condition, with the CTS unhooked the ECM thought it was at -30 deg and added all kinds of fuel.

The next thing I noticed was that the 10K aldl flag was set, this means your data logging cable has the 10k resistor in it, you don’t need or want this, our ecm’s will log without it, only the 165’ TPI ecm needs this. This puts the ecm in aldl mode which increases your idle, it was high in this log, locks your timing, and disables knock retard. This is probably why you had knock counts upon throttle tip in.

Ignoring these problems, your BLM’s looked good, but this could change with the timing locked the way it was. Remove the 10k resistor and do another log, you don’t have to get the raw data, and also save the BLM and knock count tables in winALDL. These tables will give you a better idea of your overall tune than just a short data log will, if you can drive around for 15 or 20 minutes under varying conditions this will help populate these tables and give you something to change your VE curves from.

After you get your fueling cleaned up you can play with timing, and WOT fueling.

 

Thanks for your help, where exactly does it tell you what codes are being thrown in the data log? Ill do some changes and log again and let you guys know and get some more help, thanks!
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Also is there any information on how to read the datalogging? I would like to figure out and interpret the datalogging myself eventually, thanks!

 

you went 148mph. lol?

 

im fast! Where does it say that on the data log?

 

Trying to read that log in the .txt file is nearly impossible. The heading don’t line up with the data. I copy the whole thing and past it in excel, this will line the headings up with the data. I’m pretty sure what you think is 168 mph is actually the raw data, everything the ecm does is on a scale of 0-256, then winaldl converts this to mph with a formula. If you were using tunerpro to log with, there is a file for each ecm that has all the formulas in it. This is why I said to leave out the raw data, this isn’t really needed for what your doing, to do that just uncheck “raw data” in the data log box.

If you look at the headings there are some that are labeled “malf” these are your trouble codes, a 1 in the log means that it is set, a 0 means it isn’t. Also there are things called “flags” this just tells you when a certain parameter is set, or a mode is entered. Under the “10k ALDL mode” column there are 1’s so this tells me your in that mode. You can also tell when your ECM goes into closed loop (looking at the O2 sensor), PE mode, DFCO, and other modes. Like I said this is all much clearer once you put it in excel. Also the tables are much easier to understand as well. Just go to each table in the program before you shut it off and hit save.

 

Ok, i did some changes, i set the timing back to zero and advanced it to 1, then i adjusted the idle and then adjusted the TPS to .65 for my holley TBI. And ran a run while datalogging, and here it is and some other tables as well, take a look and let me know what you guys think, thanks!

 

Anyone? Can anyone tell me if my car is running good alright or not by my datalog?

 

I see you’re not in ALDL mode now, so that’s good. You still have an IAT low code but your sensor is reading correctly. If you haven’t reset your codes then I wouldn’t worry about it, it’s probably still set from what ever hiccup it had before.

Looking at your log, all looks well except for at the end when you had it idling. You’ll notice your IAC counts go to zero, this means that your IAC valve is all the way closed, your ecm is trying to get the idle down to its desired idle speed of 625 or whatever it’s set to and can’t do it. I also notice your BLM’s are lean in this area. (Higher than 128) The lean condition might be causing your high idle and/or you could have a vacuum leak. A vacuumed leak in itself shouldn’t cause you to go lean, your IAC valve is nothing more than a controlled vacuumed leak. You map sensor should see the added air and compensate with more fuel no matter where the air is introduced into the system We try to keep most of the air going through the throttle bores to keep fuel atomized. So we shoot for low (less than 15) IAC counts.

How to remedy this problem…..that all depends on why your car is lean and why it’s idling high. If this is a stock LO3 then you need to find out why you went this lean, (clogged injectors, bad O2, ect.) and then find the vacuumed leak. If this is a cammed up 350 or modified LO3, then you just need to tune. Close down the throttle blades a bit and get 10-15 iac counts, add some fuel in your VE tables where your lean, and data log some more and see where you’re at.

Looking at your BLM tables (I like to look at the wide avg. table) I can see that your avg. BLM’s are lean below 2000 rpm about right at 2000 and slightly rich above 2000. You see how a simple fuel pressure change wouldn’t do you a lot of good here? You simply need to raise your VE cells where you lean and lower them where you’re rich. Here’s a little tip, you’ll notice the 128 entries at 80 and 90 MAP at 2000 rpm. Logic would have that these cells are perfect, but that’s not the case. When ever you go into PE (power enrichment mode) your BLM’s lock at 128 and your fueling is based solely on you’re VE tables and your PE modifiers. Your PE enablers are based on temp, TPS and maybe a few other parameters. Some tuner like to set there PE enable points higher at say 75% throttle so they can stay out of PE while they try to get a good avg. log of what’s really going on. I don’t like to completely disable PE mode because if you need to go WOT for any reason you’ll be running an afr of 14.7 to 1 which can burn a piston fast at high rpm and load.

Hope that helps, and maybe some of the other tuners can take a look and make some suggestions. Go ahead and post up your complete combo, this will help us guide you better.

 

I have a 89 camaro with a L05 (truck 350) in it, stock engine. With a holley 670 CFM TBI unit on it. and a chip from TBIchips.com. With egr programmed out, so i have a block off plate and the smog pump removed, and no CAT. A lowered temperature fan switch, and a 5 spd. trans, and that is it. The engine does run weird at idle, it will run fine and then every now and then it will stumble like its going to die and then it idles up again, could that be my IAT closeing all the way? and if so can I adjust it so it wont close all the way? Thanks again! I dont think i have a vac leak, ive checked everything.

 

deleted post. wrong forum

 

Nope it’s not a vaccum leak, it’s a 454 TB. Your throttle bores are so much bigger now that your simply getting too much air at idle. Turn down your throttle stop on the TB until you get about 15 IAC counts at idle, but I have a bad feeling your going to have idling problems since your tune is so far off. You’re over 10% lean down low and near 10% rich up top. If you’re willing to get into tuning, you can fix all of this. If your not your best bet is to put the stock TB back on and depending on what the logs look like get a chip for a caprice (you may already have a carbon copy from TBI chips)

This is perfect example of why mail order won’t cut it. Just too many variables for even mild bolt-ons.

Are you planning to get into DIY tuning???????

 

i believe the Holley uses a specific Holley TBI base gasket. did you use Holley? if not you may want to contact them. when I bought my 7.4 late model TBI i found it too had a specific gasket pattern around the IAC area.

 

I used the gaskey that came with the holley unit, and the unit is for a 5.7 Also I had this same problem with my stock TB. I really dont have the time or money to get into tuning on my own. I would be willing to pay for someone else to burn my chips but i dont have any luck getting someone to do that for me. I just dont want to invest the time and money into equipment. i dont plan on doing anymore mods, that would require me to do more tuning down the road. So all the time and money put into tuning and the equipment would be for a one time deal, you know what I mean?

 

That’s too bad, equipment is only around 125-150$ and your over half way there to understanding what needs changed to make it run better. You’re pretty much at the mercy of tbichips.com, send him your logs and have him burn another chip. It’ll take 5-25 burns and who knows how long but he’ll eventually get it in the ball park. Keep in mind almost any mods that give you power will require tuning to take full advantage of. Right now you’re 10% lean in some places and 10% rich in others, a set of headers may push way over the edge. I believe some have said a set of headers required 15% change in some VE cells.

Just keep this in mind, most tuners aim for an AFR between 12 to1 and 13 to 1 at WOT any lower and you’ll give up big HP and waste fuel any higher and you’ll burn a hole in a piston. The difference between 13 to 1 and 14.3 to 1 is 10%........Luckily GM made most engines run rich enough that your starting from 12 to1 instead of 13 to 1.

 

IMHO doing data logs and emailing to a tuner is much better than emailinthe tuner with verbage of general symptoms-issue. BUT most likely will still not be right. datalogs are of CL operation (for most part). the OL stuff still needs hands on work meaning you. i was lucky in that my datalogging and buring new chips(every other day for 2 months) got he CL spot on. but not AE-PS. OL PE also was commanded and resulted at 12.3. i thought the bitch would blow up as i was a new tuner(2003). i later found out that PE was probable result as underlying tables optimized. . now my current set up is a whole diff story. had i done same i very well could have hurt mortor as i am at 13.3 now on limited WOT. ans is more FP and will do so once car on road. point is you have a lot invested in that car. too much to risk on mail order tune. if you dont want to tune and that is understandable. take to dyno and allow them burn you a decent chip. or get frustrated with back and forth through us postal.. an alternative is to allow burner to email the bins to you and you burn to save time. not sure if anyone has done that?

 

I'd be willing to do this as long as we did it as a learning tool for others. We would start a thread titled "TBI Tuning Kindergarten" and then have some one post up their logs and bin file, I would modify them and repost for all to see, explain what I changed and why. Of course Brian would have them cocked locked and ready to sell in about 5 minutes but who cares, people who are willing to pay him 150$ to burn them a chip aren't interested in DIY. I think people would realize that basic VE and timing changes aren't hard at all.

I know people are worried about their bin files being stolen and sold for profit, the way I see it if .bin files are freely distributed and passed around like candy the mail order junk won't be worth as much. Hopefully people will just buy the 85$ dollar burner ( and split the cost with friends), and grab such and such's headers only .bin and start tuning from there. I may go ahead and fully document the process when I tune my brothers vortec 350.

 

i see he start of something big. but it has a few issues.

there is a tuner on this board that helped be out day one immensely. got me in ball park and resolved some manual trans issues and others that escape me now.

maybe i will send you mine Monte and we can all laugh out loud. i believe it has some flaws yet.

 

I think that your "TBI Kindergarten" would be a great idea. I would be willing to buy the equipment and burn the chips if someone adjusted my .bin and told me the how whats and whys of what they were changed to. I really dont have the time to learn everything there is to know, and i just want my car to run right. I am extremely busy with work and 2-3 car shows a week, that i can afford to have my car down while I work on a chip, if someone (BMmonte) would change my info when i post a new datalog of bin, so all i would have to do is burn a chip and try it that would help me alot, and then tell me what was changed and why, i learn better like that, than just ready a post about how to burn chips, also i am totally lost with all the terms you guys are talking about anyway, but i am willing to learn, i just dont have alot of time to give the thing. Thanks!
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could i post my .bin right now and let someone walk me through it and "show and tell" what could be done any why. Can i access my bin with my ALDL cable? Thanks!

 

i am a junior tuner so will give you my take. the .bin needs to be in a format if that is close to correct. the "chip" is read by a devise. i used transtronics pp2 to read an unk chip and burn chips. old school. or a stock bin is taken off a "site" like GM-ECU or Moates and placed in a suitable file and emailed to whomever. yours i think is locked so it wont work/cant read. i think a stock bin is required for you to start up . corrreect me here? that chip with stock .bin is datalogged and here we/they start the process. my .bin's on my pc are held in tunercat(free 30 days) as it is my tuning program and i find it easy to work with. they are also held i believe in documents also if i recall. i can email them and have done so. so the datalog is emailed to the tuner which prob has access to stock bin anyway. the corrections the tuner makes is /are in bin and emailed back to you to burn bin into chip. 25 atttemps at burn and you should be 90%. you will need burner(ebay?) laptop, and tuning editor(tunercat-tunerpro?). what did i leave out?

 

would this burner work? and where do i get blank chips? Also , do all i do is pop the chip in this burner and plug it into my computer and use a program like TunerPro to burn the chip, then pop it out of the burner and put it in my car?

 

Traxion’s intro to prom tuning is still the best (read: complete) source for the basics of what it takes to get up and running burning your own chips. I don’t think rehashing what’s been said there or any of the other stickies on the DIY prom board is worth persuing. If we do this I want it to be more of an example of the thought process as it pertains to TBI, we’ll discuss the TBI specific hardware and software hiccups, but I don’t want to get bogged down in “my cable won’t work what do I do” type of questions. Like kindergarten I want this thread to hold your hand just long enough to get you to the point where you can learn on your own and ask intelligent questions, and make sense of some of the more in depth tuning articles that are on the DIY prom board. I’m thinking something along the lines of the following but with an emphesis on TBI:

These are your scanning options….winaldl

These are your burner options (since there are several more out since Traxion’s article was written) also discuss flash chips and adapters so that we can use Moates 85$ burner.

These are your software options (Much newer ones of these out now)

Then start with a fairly stock car and fine tune the fuel tables

Follow up by playing with timing, and showing what happens when you start bumping the knock sensor with the ole’ 36* is the best timing theory.

Then showcase how you can change WOT fueling settings.

Maybe have a section on idle stuff

Touch on AE, I think this will be a bit much for Kindergarten since a WB is needed to get this right, just the basics to help minimize a rich bog or lean pop.

I might then brush on some of the intermediate tuning issues with TBI, like getting PW in your aldl screen since that’s the biggest problem we have with fueling big HP motors. Then showcase the power of a WB by comparing a lean spike in winaldl to one in my zietronix WB logger.

I think once you understand these basics you can pick it up on your own from there. Hopefully we’ll have several people with varying levels of modifications we can use as examples to illustrate the above lessons. Of course I vote to post all bin and log files along with screen shots of tables to change.

So what do you say??? Mods, you think this would be ok to leave in TBI since we’ll be concentrating on TBI? I don’t think I should be the only person modifying bins, I would like to have it be a group effort.

 

I hope to do this, because i would like to get around to burning my own chips, but some newbies are lost even in the DIY Prom section, i need to learn from someone working with my 1 on 1 not by reading a old post and tyring stuff that I dont even know about, thanks alot and hope to see that forum come up and I will definately participate it in and work with you guys and even help other new comers when i feel confident about my own skills, thanks!

Also, would any of you guys be able to email me a stock .bin for a 350 TBI and maybe a modified one according to my datalogging, i would like to start learning a little now, so i know what to start looking for when we get this stuff going, thanks!

email: xjcamaro89@hotmail.com

 

Now that I start looking around, there is plenty of step by step here's how to get a chip burnt type of post in the stickies both here and on the DIY prom board, if we do this I think it would be more of a demonstration thread.

 

look here for stock .bin http://www.moates.net/fileman/

 

This is the greastest place on earth/internet This is exactly what I need to get into prom tuning. If someone posts a link to the items we/I need to burn our chips (91 LO3 auto) , I would love to get into it. Once I get my "foot in the door" I will be able to continue on my own. I have already data logged my car. I just don't know what to do next.

 

Same here! I am very computer competent, and have very good logics, I just need someone to show me what to do and what not to do, what I need and what I dont need and get me rolling. The DIY Prom section has to many variables or options of what to use and what to do. Just give me the information the the equipment and information that works! BMmonte, are you willing to work with me? Even the simple stuff that you guys tell us to do leaves us lost. Like the response to my question about a stock .bin, and some one gives me a link and says you can find one there. I dont know what im looking for. And that is the types of answers us newbies to chipping get and it leaves us lost. Thanks and I hope to get this stuff up and going really soon, but in the mean time, what equipment works or is recommended and where can I get it so i can get it on order and be ready, also where to get chips?

Am i looking for a burner like this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Moate...QQcmdZViewItem

And what type of chips would i need for my ECM?
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Are these chips to go with the burner and work in my car?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SST-2...temZ8046951189

 

The format of that file works with MegaLogViewer
MegaLogViewer

Makes it a lot easier to read than straight TXT...