I am looking for an itake to put my TBI on that has EGR.

It is made by Professional Products model 52009

eBay Motors: 383 350 GM CHEVY PERF TYPE W/EGR INTAKE CAMARO SBC 909 (item 230012909833 end time Aug-07-06 18:16:57 PDT)

I never heard of this brand but it looks like a copy of the performer and it will work with old and new heads with EGR...and the price is right.

I am having problems finding a used Holly,Weiand or edlebrock with EGR so this would be a last resort.

What does everybody think

 

well all i know is that knock-off manifolds tend to have crappy castings and its not rare to see uneven ports... if you have the money go with a brand that you can trust a little... you can deffinately get a performer for a few bucks more....

 

I have one of these manifolds for my 305. With the exception of a few rough edges (which are easily fixed with a Dremel) these are fine manifolds. I see no difference between the "Cyclone" and the Edelbrock Performer. Many builders are starting to favor the Professional Products manifolds.

I don't know about their quality control, but mine is fine, and I know of others who are also pleased. I have another Professional Products manifold on the way for my 350.

 

Thanks Casey

The ones I looked at at my local speed shop actually seemed better quality than the Edlbrock. I would have bought one then and there but they did not have the EGR type. Good thing too because the one in the link will be about 40 bucks less even after shipping and tax figured in.

I just wanted to be sure it would work OK and Perform up to its claims.

What brand of TBI adapter plate should I go with?

 

This is another instance of cheap Chinese labor. Scat does the same thing with their cast steel crankshafts ...the core's are made in China, but the finishing is done in the US.

I can't remember the brand of my adaptor plates. It'll be easiest to fit it if the plate doesn't move the TBI unit too far forward or backward.

I'll check what type of adaptors I have and get back to you.

 

...my TBI adaptor plate is a Trans Dapt (part# 2210).

Trans-Dapt Performance Throttle Body to Carbureted Manifold Adapters: TRD-2210 - summitracing.com

The 2211 might be a better fit for the Performer/Cyclone style manifold:

Trans-Dapt Performance Throttle Body to Carbureted Manifold Adapters: TRD-2211 - summitracing.com

 

Thanks again Casey

Do think I should try running a spacer? would that improve anything?

Should I use a tbi spacer on top of the adapter or a carb spacer under it?

 

You can get a carb spacer for $14 from Summit ...but the TBI spacers are $46 and up ...so I'd definitely go with a carb spacer. In addition, the carb spacers have a bigger opening and will give you more plenum area than a TBI spacer.

My take on spacers is this: TBI responds very well to large plenum areas - you gain top-end power but you don't lose bottom end (unlike a carb) because the fuel mixture quantity and quality is not dependent on a vacuum signal at the base of the unit (again, unlike a carb). However, on a stock motor you probably won't get much of a noticeable increase in performance because the motor is restricted by exhaust, cam, intake, etc. On a more modified engine there's more to gain. In either case, you certainly won't lose anything by using a spacer.

But, for $14 you can't go wrong.

By the way, I don't like EGR, so I got the non-EGR manifold and burned a chip without EGR.

 

You may want to check shipping on your Chineseium intake manifold. Adding that in could easy surpass the cost of buying an Edelbrock locally.

It could save the cost of another American's job as well.

 

Those intakes are crap. Dont even bother.

If you want a cheap intake thats of resonable quality, check out edelbrocks intakes. The base intakes suck for performance, but they bolt on with minimal effort. Poop boys had both egr and non-EGR versions of the performer the last time I bought one. It was about the same price as the chinesium one was when shippings taken into account.

 

I don't know about fitment your heads, but I used a Weiand 8000 intake (has EGR - about $125) with 416 heads and a TBI adapter from Advance and it worked fine (I think I also had to get an EGR spacer as well though, as the EGR wants to get in the way of the TBI unit on that intake - but it was at Advance as well).

 

Thanks

I have an Advance across the street from me I'll check em out.
I hardly ever go there any more becuse of the dumb little Sh*ts that work there **** me off . 'Cause everytime I ask a question on a part they anwer with "UHHHHM, UHHHHHH, Yeah I think so , definatley, maybee, I'm not sure, yeah its the right one, for sure, I'm positive, well thats what the computer says!"

You should see them run like hell to the back room when I come back in 20 minutes later all pissed of and greasy fingered with busted up knuckles to return the wrong part they just sold me!

 

All else aside, you're better off with a single plane intake with TBI. Fast of BMonte can explain in more detail, but dual planes give carbs more low end torque, but actually have a negative effect on TBI.

The hot setup on this board for a low-profile single plane intake with EGR was a Weiand 7525 for the longest time. They don't make them anymore, so you don't see people talking about it much anymore, but I have one, and I'm not going to use it, as I've decided to wait till i drop in my 383 and I'll be using Vortec-style heads. I paid 75.00 for it, and that's what I'll take, if anyone's interested. Shipping should be around 20-25. I'll charge exactly what it costs me, no more.

I'll post a pic of one, but it's not mine. mine has some Chevy orange paint on it and will need to be media blasted. otherwise, it's perfect.

 

I don't know where you got that one from, I am a dual plane type of guy. The single plane causes a loss of torque, even on TBI. It is the effect of intake resonance. I have seen a weiand "X" style intake lose 40-50 ft/lbs being run without the center divider. I have seen a performer RPM intake gain 20 ft/lbs @ 2,500 with no loss of HP over the "X" with divider, and no other changes.

I favor pumping up the plenum volume but keeping a dual plane.

This is the X.

Holley Performance Products X-CELerator Intake Manifold 7546

 

Hmmmmm ... everything I'd read on here prior to buying mine said no torque loss with the single plane on TBI and better high end:

ShaneBuss: "Ive had several different dual planes and single planes on my TBI setup.

I definitely like the single plane better.. more topend, and you dont seem to lose bottom end because of the fuel injection.


I have had a Torquer, Torquer 2, and a weiand stealth..


honestly, i couldnt tell a diff between the different single planes, but i could tell a difference between a single and dual.

Dont go spend a ton on the best single plane.... "

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...ht=weiand+7525


83 Crossfire TA: "Anything that helps a carb get a better signal (vacuum, indication of what the engine is doing) will make the setup more responsive, especially with throttle position changes. Dual plains help this since they separate the cylinders and even only let half the cylinders work on half the carb at a time with a much smaller plenum area.

None of this really matters with TBI since the ECM can be programmed to respond to a greater range of conditions more accurately and the vacuum that the actual TB unit is subjected to is irrelevant. Secondly, anything that gets the injector pod up higher helps with fuel atomization and flow, and increasing plenum volume lessens the effects of a TB that's too small, both significantly helping the TB setup."

RBob (from the same thread): "With a dual plane there is only the one injector feeding a cylinder, however, there is also only one TBI bore feeding that cylinder. 1-for-1.

On a single plane two injectors are feeding a cylinder, however, there are two TBI bores feeding that same cylinder. 2-for-2.

1 / 1 = 2 / 2 = 1

I run a single plane intake with a 2-1/16" bore 2BBL TBI and 80.5#/hr injectors at 22 psi for 109#/hr per injector. It works.

RBob."

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...ht=weiand+7525

Dewey316: "I run a single plane on mine. We can get into a discussion of theory about why, if you want. But IMHO single plane is the way to go."

Dewey316 (from the same thread):It has to do with plenum volume, it also allows all the cyl's to pull from both throttle bores, instead of 4 pulling from one, and 4 pulling from the other. Also, since the fueling is not dependant on the vacume signal like a carb is, you don't have the low RPM, and idle issues that are normaly associated with a single plane.

Added bonus for the day:
This thread is old, this is the thread that got my project started, and got me into PROM tuning. ;-) good tech in it."
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/show...highlight=7525

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...gle+plane+dual

Not arguing with you, Fast, I'm nowhere close to being in your league. I just figured it was pretty much a universal concept by now, and used your name because you and BMonte are two of the most currently active tech geniuses lately.

 

Fast is right, resonant tuning is still alive and kicking with TBI so a short runner intake is going to make less torque than a long runner intake. The catch is that some of the low profile dual planes like the performer also have restrictive runners so they tend to limit HP. The performer RPM makes the same amount of torque and more top end HP than the performer. If you have to run a low profile intake, I think the single planes are the best compromise since you'll get the HP of the RPM, with the sacrafice of the torque. We all like torque, but if you can roast the tires below 3000 rpm, whats the use?

If some one can find a fool proof way of getting a RPM intake on a 3rd gen we would all be better off....well you guys would be better off Actually my brother has a 3rd gen, so I would still slightly benefit from it.

 

Thanks for all the great info, although some of it may be a bit over my head.

I do have an RPM performer but It does not have EGR so I did not want to use it since I don't think I will be able to chip tune. If I get everything together and can drive it as is then I will probable get what is needed over time and start tuning. I just don't want to have to tune to make it work since I have never done it. As far as I have read here if I get rid of the EGR stuff I have to delete it from the chip. I am also still not sure what they will look for at inspection. I,m probably taking a chance using the headers I have since they don't have air fittings. In the future if I do chip tune and get a bigger cam I will put on the performer but for now I just need to know what will work with what I plan to do. see info in link

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...d-up-carb.html

Any way now I realy don't know which manifols to use! I just nead a good proven setup. Since my car will be a mild weekend driver I just want good tire spinning torque and acceleration and a dependable setup on a budget.

 

I prefer to take the "safer" route ...a Performer RPM style manifold will breathe lots for as high an RPM use as the TBI will go, and you won't lose anything off the bottom end (probably gain). So I just don't see the necessity of a single plane in our cases.