I got a 1992 rs with the tbi 305 and was thinking a getting intake, heads with port and polish, also headers. What kind of hp and tq numbers should i expect. Would i notice a big diffence. Is it worth doing on a motor thats got 140k, but is in very good shape. Also about how much would all this cost minus the machine work for port and polish.

------------------
BiGdAdDy

 

oh no! not this again...well as far as some answers to your question:

by doing that work your talking about you would see a pretty decent performance gain, and could probaly expect to see around a 25-45 hp gain. But with that many miles on the motor(regardless of condition) you may want to think about just doing some stuff like gears, and suspension while saving for a good rebuild or a motor swap, and then doing some of the mods your talking about.

I have a 1990 RS with 95,000 miles on it with some of the work you mention above, but i started doing mods to it at around 60,000 miles, I don't think if i just got the car with 95,000 I would put to much into it.

hope that helps.

------------------
1990 Camaro RS
305 TBI Auto
K&N Open Air Element, Edelbrock Performer Intake, Edelbrock Headers,Catco Hi Flow Cat, Edelbrock Exhaust, Hypertech Underdrive Pulley's, Jacobs Ignition, Fast Chip PROM, B&M Shift Kit, B&M Mega Shifter, 3.73 Rear with Auburn Limited Slip, KYB GR2 Gas Shocks and Struts, Eibach Pro Kit Lowering Springs, Edelbrock 3 Point Strut Tower Brace, Baer 13 in. Slotted Rotors with Metallic Pads, American Racing Torq Thrust II 16x8 Wheels with Toyo 245 50 VR 16 Tires, 3 in. Cowl Hood, A little weight here and a little weight there.

 

go read the thread with 61 posts in it.......weve been over this before!!!!!1

 

I'll just e-mail him.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html

 

My engine only has 40,000 miles on it. Would that make it worth doing things to it?

 

I hear Ya', 91bird305! hehehehe....

 

40000 Miles?? hell thats barely breaking it in. I am only gonna list 2 mods to do. Gears and exahaust. Go with something like 3.42 to 3.73 and get something lke a flowmaster or borla. Dont get that ugly single outlet flowmaster got the dual outlets.

If u want to strictly do up the motor try having the factory heads ported and polished with new hardware and drop in a nice cam. From what i hear a custom prom is also a big thing when doing up the motor. A nice intake and u should be running some pretty nice et,s

------------------
1989 pontiac firebird
bright red extior(just repainted)
grey interior
5 spd
305 TBI (stock)
WS.6 formula wheels
3.73 posi rear end
-------------------------
system: 2 10" MTX thunder 2000 in a Professionally done custom bandpass box.
Blaupunkt CD player
Blaupunkt 4x6 and 6x9
600 watt rockford fosgate 4.6 amp

future mods Borla exahaust maybe???

 

lol eric

 

ugly single flowmaster?

why you!!!
The single flowmaster happens to get me the most races out of all my sleeper characteristics


------------------
91 RS W/carbed 350, Vortec heads, performer rpm, Comp cams Xtreme energy 280 grind. BFG Drag radials. 3.42 posi,Corvette servoed 700r4, ****ty stock converter
13.24@104

 

sorry vortecfcar, i didnt mean to offend u. what i meant to say is go with the cross flow style if u want to look good sound good and get a power increase. If u want the most power produceing system go with the single outlet system

 

soitsa305, the mods in my sig REALLY woke my 305 up. I think you will enjoy these mods the best. Espically the gears and exaust. If your just wanting a street car with ok gas mileage then I would go with this setup. If you start getting into heads,cam,intake then its always a pain. U have to get a custom prom and for the cam you have to raise the block out of the engine bay. Some mods are worth it on our 305 tbi's, then some mods aren't.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html

 

why do you have to move the engine out of the bay to do a cam? can't you just remove the radiatior and bumpers and stuff?

------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS6

305, TBI, auto, 14x3 chrome flat based open element with K&N, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips....

Super GRK_Taz World
EFI & Intake Options
AOL IM: superGRtaz
ICQ 82881207

 

i didnt think u had to remove the engine but who knows i could be wrong. I thought u just had to remove everything infront of it. Not includeing the front bumper

 

I was just jokin about the single outlet , I thought it was a double until it showed up at my door-Imagine my suprise. I got over it and realized its benefits.
The cam can be snuk in without the bumper being moved, just take out the obvious front end parts and I think you should be alright......Ill be doing the same shortly, with a large roller going in instead of my flat tappet, which was my only regret.

 

to change the cam all you need to do is take out the radiator and condensor
thats it
peice of cake

 

Cam swap, piece of cake,HAHA
Your guy's idea sounds better. But a piece or cake? Atleast be real with the guy.


[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited October 26, 2000).]

 

my single 3 inch single outlet flowmaster exhaust system is one of the best systems i've ever used.And has suxed in many a mustang to thinkin ....6 banger HE HE 89RS305

 

I have the same exaust u do. I have a custom 3" exaust (no cat) back to a Flowmaster 80 Series and I love it.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html

 

what's a condensor?

 

Isn't that small looking block thing? Looks like a canister? Is that it?

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html

 

its in front of the radiator. and your ac lines hook up to it so, by no means should you just remove it, or is it a peice of cake. Unless your ac system is shot. its against the law to let r12 into the air. not to mention expensive. at 55$ a lb. and 2+lbs. Have an ac shop remove the freon first. Then after your done with the cam, before you put the freon back in you have to replace your drier, (whenever you open the lines completely to the outside air). So, its not a peice of cake, unless you feel like throwing away 160$ bucks worth of freon, which i can be pretty sure is all still in there with 40k on the clock.

HELLO PEOPLE, PEICE OF CAKE??????
WHAT???

Now, draining a radiator is a peice of cake, even removing that is.

Peice of cake, o my god.

 

wow you guys are flipping out, remove it from YOUR WAY you dont have to REMOVE IT COMPLETELY
it has rubber hoses for a reason, you can flip it out of your way while you do the cam swap
and dont go telling me if its a peice of cake or not when you have never even attempted a cam swap. This is not an impossible task, if you insist it is then thats only going to inflate my ego, im only 21 and have no "mentor" other than those on the internet and i can do a cam swap in a couple of hours. From the sound of things maybe I should work for a nascar team. Anyone with a full complement of brains and appendages can do a cam swap in a day or less. EASY. VERY EASY. You wont go far in this hobby if you arent confident in your ability to MAKE things work. Im telling you, as a person that has done a cam swap, forget about waht you think the difficulty level is, YOU CAN DO IT, TRUST ME, I DID IT YOU CAN TOO.

[This message has been edited by Pablo (edited October 26, 2000).]

 

Yeah but don't u need special tools to alighn the cam just right? And did u have trouble with your water pump? I know mine is still the stock one and it looks like if I was to do a cam swap that it would be a b*tch to get off since the bolts are probably rusted on there. Why is it that the water pump will rust but nothing else on my engine is? Anyways, I just heard from other people that it wasn't an easy task. I haven't done it myself cause I have never thought of doing a cam swap. If it only takes a few hours than maybe I will try it afterall. Is there anything else you should replace while your doing a cam swap like rockers,valve springs? And would a cam swap be a good idea if someone is swaping that engine out a year later (hopefully) or could I get a cam (one that will fit and work better) in the ZZ4 that will work in my 305 so I won't be wasting any money? Thanks.

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited October 27, 2000).]

 

Speaking on cam swaps, A friend and I took a weekend to do my swap the first time...granted it was winter and cold, but for a newbie I find it hard to believe that most could do it in 2 hrs. Of course on the second one yes did not take long at all a day at the most and that included a head swap. For someone who has never done anything major to their motor... I Believe it will take a while.. there is a learning curve involved..you learn where to take shortcuts. Just don't want anyone to get in over there heads.

------------------
91 Firebird 305/TBI - cam:.420/.442 204/214 - Hooker 1 5/8" headers - TFX PaceSetter Cat-Back - 3.42's Auburn Pro Posi - ASCD Ram-Air hood - Polished Formula Wheels w/Futura's - Open element - .5" Corian TB spacer - Lakewood LCA's - Hotchkis Lowering Springs - KYB Struts/Shocks - 14.78 @ 97.5 mph(G-Tech) - MacEwen MotorSports Whiteface Overlays - 412ci sb waiting to go in this spring.
My Homepage

 

i dont think i said in under two hours

i said in a day.

You dont need any special tools other than a basic mechanics toolset, a gear puller, and a harmonic balancer puller. Your water pump bolts probably are not rusted on (even if they are, liquid wrench is awesome for that stuff) You dont need to change your rockers or springs or anything else if you go with another roller cam that isnt pushing the stock springs over their lift limits. You dont need to degree the cam either which is probably what you were referring to when you asked about aligning the cam just right. The timing gears have marks and as long as you put them in with the marks pointing to eachother its impossible to mess up. Like Josh said, if this is your first attempt at some pretty serious engine work set aside two days for it and just take it slow and methodical. Thats the key here along with asking LOTS of questions before you start. Just know what you need to do at every step, ask us here on the board and we will tell you. I think even the chiltons manual has a very good step by step of doing a cam swap.
If you can change a manifold, and change a water pump, and change a radiator, you pretty much have what it takes to do the main things for a cam swap. Besides that its only removing the timing gears and balancer which is straight forward, and setting valve lash

 

I was just gonna say something but i totally forgot...........DAMN!!!

 

Ok, thanks guys. I might do that. But do u really think it would be a good idea finacially? Since I am getting the new motor next summer would a cam be really worth it for about half a summer? Or would it be a good idea to swap the ZZ4 cam out with this aftermarket one. (not sure which one yet if I do it). Isn't the ZZ4 cam a pretty high performance cam, besides the ZZ4 Hot Cam?

 

Oh and Pablo, yes u did say you could do it in 2 hours. Look at your post.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html

 

must you nitpick everything i say? couple=few

i didnt mean two

 

Pablo and Tas are correct about this "kid". I'm quite a bit older than Pablo, but experience comes from doing the work, not just talk. I think that I seen a reply deleted from this morning and if my memory is correct it should have been! This is a good board let's keep it on an adult level and not let it become another 3rdgen! Good work Pablo!!

 

I was always told that you have to be extremely careful when insatlling a cam so you don't scratch up the cam bearings, or else it'll sieze up on you. Is that really true? Also, do you need to replace the cam bearings when changing a cam? That would really suck.

As for installing a cam without lifting the engine, it can be done, I've seen it done before in a 90 RS. Oh yeah, one more thing, don't use a cam so big that you loose alot of vaccuum, TBI's don't respond to that very well.


------------------
1992 RS
327, Modded TBI, Rebuilt WC T-5 5-speed, PRO 4 15" rims, Nitto's, 3.73's, SLP 1 5/8" headers, and a few other things.

 

LOCK ER' DOWN!

 

Pablo,I didn't catch whether you had to remove the condensor and remove the freon, or if you could just move the filled condenser out of the way.
Man, if you could, that would make the cam swap a lot easier.
Also, does a cam swap require a custom prom to work right assuming no head work?
thanks.........bob


------------------
91 camaro RS convert
t-5
open element air cleaner
TBI spacer
Flowmaster muffler
3.42 Torsen posi

 

OK, mabye I can answer a few questions here. Eric, I wouldn't bother putting a better cam in your L03 since your going to dump it soon, and I woldn't suggest putting a different cam in the ZZ4, unless it's the HOT cam.
If you change the cam, change the chip, the stock one is set up for a stock cam, and the stock chip won't respond well to a different cam.
AS for the condensor, doesn't it have rubber hoses gong up to it? Can't you just move it enough to sneak the cam in? I'm gonna have to pop my hood and find out I guess.
Hope I helped?


------------------
1992 RS
327, Modded TBI, Rebuilt WC T-5 5-speed, PRO 4 15" rims, Nitto's, 3.73's, SLP 1 5/8" headers, and a few other things.

 

91BIRD if u are gonna change up motors soon i think it would be a waste of over 100$ to put a cam in the LO3. True u would feel an increadible difference becouse the factory cam sucked but y put more omney into a motor that wont be there. Now if u are trying to keep that motor for a few years or something doesnt work out with the ZZ4 i would than go ahead and put a cam in. From what i have heard it really livens up these motors...

BTW n e one know what the highest lift cam would be that i could use w/out changeing to much. Also what type of chip would i have to use? a custom burned one or just a hypertech or something?

------------------
1989 pontiac firebird
bright red extior(just repainted)
grey interior
5 spd
305 TBI (stock)
WS.6 formula wheels
3.73 posi rear end
-------------------------
system: 2 10" MTX thunder 2000 in a Professionally done custom bandpass box.
Blaupunkt CD player
Blaupunkt 4x6 and 6x9
600 watt rockford fosgate 4.6 amp

future mods Borla exahaust maybe???

 

the condensor moves out of the way, like someone pointed out there are rubber hoses, be carefull though the fins are real sharp

 

THANK YOU VERY MUCH ONEFINE8T9 AND DUKE! Thats all I wanted. Not comments. Pablo, quit deleting my posts please.

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited October 30, 2000).]

 

no prob

 

91bird305, go ahead and do the cam. Just sell the used cam to somebody when you get the "o so talked about" zz4.

Next summer, im getting an LS1.

joke - dont freak on me.

sorry pablo, i didnt know you meant "just move it" and i didnt realize that the hoses were long enough to just move it. ive been around ac for a while, and ive been taught to treat r12 as if it were gold. and you are right, ive never done a cam swap. But i thought i might tell people that its not a good idea to just remove your condesnsor. ive had many caases where people came into my shop after doing engine work and dont realize why their ac system doesnt work any more after opening the lines to get to a part or swap a motor, etc.. then they freak out when you tell them it will cost a couple hundered bucks to fix.

and i dont doubt that somebody could put a cam in that quikly, it would seem easy to me to slide that sucker in there. But not everybody out there is mechanically inclined, and sometimes you should know exactly who you are talking to before recomending something like a cam swap. if hes 16 and has no idea how a cam even works and then somebody tells him to just move some stuff and its a peice of cake, hes gona have one screwed up day.

For me, the only fear i would ever have to do on an engine is putting together heads, or maybe changing a crank or pistons. That to me, is where i would stop doing things on my own without knowledgable help.

Sorry for "freaking out", i wasnt.
I was just trying to warn people of the catastrophies of just, disconecting ac lines without taking out the freon

[This message has been edited by snflupigus (edited October 30, 2000).]

 

Good point and lay off the ZZ4 man. Do u guys want me to take it out of my sig or what? Its only been there for 3 weeks and I get flack for having it in there cause I haven't bought it yet. NEXT SUMMER. You will see....I hope. Man I hope I don't have to eat my own words. Big money, Big Money

And Tas, quit kissing Pablo's *** . All you do is respond do any of his posts concerning me.
------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited October 31, 2000).]

 

Pablo, really glad to know about the condensor/RE cam swap. I didn't know thats an option and it's a HUGE time saver.Makes a Cam swap in a 305 or a 350 look feasible for me anyway.
Thanks again........
Man, this board is like an advanced level
class in the subject.


------------------
91 camaro RS convert
t-5
open element air cleaner
TBI spacer
Flowmaster muffler
3.42 Torsen posi

 

Well, rsSilver, we do our best to either confuse the hell out of people, or help them more than they need.

Thats what we are all here for.