saw Badbird383's convertable tonight

he posted in another thread, it basically has a 454 TBI unit, stock injectors, stock chip, a 100% stock Yukon truck Vortec 350

the tbi unit is on a performer rpm intake for vortec heads, and he has headers and full exhaust along with 3.42 gears

the car weighs like 4000 lbs

i rode in it
I raced it
I saw it race an Lt1 z with slicks

I can tell you, this combo KICKS ***

the car flat out flies

he took me pretty hard
and he beat the LT1 Z 6 speed too

he ran a 13.80 at the track last time he went but i think that was in hot air, i thik it would run even better than that now with the cool snap we have

geez if i had that engine in my car id hit low 13s just factoring in the weight difference, most of us are under 3400 so figure on atleast low 13s. Im damn impressed

 

Those Vortecs heads a great flowing head. I have a side by test here in front of me, confirming a 239cfm @ .500" lift int., 162@ .600" exh., completely stock and unported. That's better than any other production GM cast iron head. Its also better than an Edelbrock Performer(235cfm @ .500" int.) , World Products S/R Torquer(225@.500" int.) and also outflows a stock LT1 on the intake side(215@.500" lift) These heads are better on the exhaust side, but the Vortecs are very impressive on the intake side. The lower exhaust flow will actually produce a little more torque, which is really what is needed in stock or low rpm stall convertor, mildly geared, street cars - and the weaker exhaust flow is easily rectified with a good dual-pattern cam or porting. We built an engine for a dirt car a couple of years ago with Vortecs, in a factory head limited class, and it was the fastest car on the track. It was the first year they allowed the Vortec, and most of the guys still had Double Hump heads, and they weren't even close to it. A few of the guys did have Vortecs, but knowing the exhaust flow was a little weak,and the fact that in this class we couldn't port the heads, we ordered a custom grind dual-pattern cam from Comp, and it was a rocket.

------------------
82 Z28 350, Ported #882 Heads, Performer RPM cam and intake, hedman headers,650 Demon carb,
Trans: Turbo 350 w/ 4000 stall -- Rearend 7.5 w/ Richmond 4.10's, Auburn Minispool
Best ET: 12.52@107.2
Future plans: Dart headed, Roller cammed 383 in early '01


89 RS, L03 305, Hypertech Chip,cat delete, Dynomax exhaust,K&N open element Filter,160 stat, MSD coil --Trans:700R4 Corvette Servo -- Rearend: 7.5 GM 3.42 w/ posi-lock
New Best ET: 15.03@92.7 http://www.bassettracing.cz28.com

[This message has been edited by Basett Racing (edited January 06, 2001).]

 

head shootout
ZZ4(L98) vs. Vortec vs. Fast Burns on a 350
356hp vs. 390hp vs. 432 hp

according to March 2000 Popular Hot Rodding


------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS-6
[soon to be Performace Red =) ]

305, TBI, auto, 14x3 chrome flat based open element with K&N, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips....

Super GRK_Taz World
EFI & Intake Options
AOL IM: superGRtaz
ICQ 82881207

 

Yes, Fast Burns are awesome. I was just saying that for an unported cast iron head that can be bought new for around $400, they are a great bang-for-the-buck head. There are better heads, and they're are better GM heads, no doubt, but not any cast iron ones. The Vortec even outflows the Phase II cast iron Bowtie head - and they still cost $900.

------------------
82 Z28 350, Ported #882 Heads, Performer RPM cam and intake, hedman headers,650 Demon carb,
Trans: Turbo 350 w/ 4000 stall -- Rearend 7.5 w/ Richmond 4.10's, Auburn Minispool
Best ET: 12.52@107.2
Future plans: Dart headed, Roller cammed 383 in early '01


89 RS, L03 305, Hypertech Chip,cat delete, Dynomax exhaust,K&N open element Filter,160 stat, MSD coil --Trans:700R4 Corvette Servo -- Rearend: 7.5 GM 3.42 w/ posi-lock
New Best ET: 15.03@92.7
http://www.bassettracing.cz28.com

 

i think the most amazing thing about it is the combo is pretty much bolt in, stock chip and all it ran super strong
i want that engine now hehe

 

Those vortec heads arent smog legal in cali are they? I dont think they are...how about the fast burns? Are the fast burns legal and how much do those suckers cost?

 

The Vortecs should be legal anywhere since they came on factory 96-98 Chevy Trucks. The Fast Burns I'm not sure about, I'd guess no, but I really don't know for sure. They cost $1050.00 from Scoggin Dickey.

------------------
82 Z28 350, Ported #882 Heads, Performer RPM cam and intake, hedman headers,650 Demon carb,
Trans: Turbo 350 w/ 4000 stall -- Rearend 7.5 w/ Richmond 4.10's, Auburn Minispool
Best ET: 12.52@107.2
Future plans: Dart headed, Roller cammed 383 in early '01


89 RS, L03 305, Hypertech Chip,cat delete, Dynomax exhaust,K&N open element Filter,160 stat, MSD coil --Trans:700R4 Corvette Servo -- Rearend: 7.5 GM 3.42 w/ posi-lock
New Best ET: 14.91@92.9 w/ open exhaust http://www.bassettracing.cz28.com

[This message has been edited by Basett Racing (edited January 07, 2001).]

 

pablo, were the stock injectors the 454 ones or the 65# 350 ones? Do you know what he did for a chip? Thanks......bob

 

pablo, sorry I didn't make this clear. Was he using the stock chip from his LO3???
Which stock chip.......bob

 

everything was stock
stock injectors, but at 14 psi
and bone stock GM LO3 chip

only non stock stuff was basically the intake and exhaust if you mean non stock as in aftermarket

the throttle body was a 454 unit and of course the engine was from a yukon truck

[This message has been edited by Pablo (edited January 07, 2001).]

 

So could I bolt those stock truck vortec heads on my L03 and only need a different intake? Did they make 305 vortec's I'm sure they did, and would it change the compresstion ration of my L03?

------------------
1989 Pontiac Firebird
Formula W6S LO3 TBI 305
-180 degree stat
-Hooker Cat-Back

////edited post//// <---Imgs in Sig not allowed. If added after posted, lets just not confuse people and have everybody doin/wanting to know why they cant have it in their sig. Sorry.

1985 Camaro IROC-Z LB9

http://www.geocities.com/krt80/

[This message has been edited by Keith5 (edited January 07, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by snflupigus (edited January 08, 2001).]

 

you could bolt vortecs on an Lo3 but youd need to mill them substantially unless you find the 5.0 vortec heads
and yes you need a different intake

 

Just to clarify:

The engine is a 350 from a Yukon that just happens to have Vortec heads.

The TBI is from a 454 SS.

That car does NOT have an LO3 with vortec heads.

 

I knew that. I want to try that, will the SB2 heads fit older blocks? I could put 5.3 heads on.

 

what??? you need to work on your terms. What do you mean by SB2?? what 5.3 heads? the new Vortech 5.3L heads? those 5.3L heads are 100% different than our engines. They are based on the LS1

 

I meant to say:

1) I knew that the engine isn't an L03.

2) I want to try that, putting vortec heads on my L03.

3) Will the SB2 heads fit older blocks, could I put 5.3 heads on?

The reason I'm asking (no. 3) is the 5.3's block has the same bore as a 305's block with an LS1 stroke.

The 6.0 has a 4 inch bore like a 350, with the LS1's stroke.

I just wonder if the blocks are basically the same as first gen SB's.

I'm thinking not. The L31 engine offered in 96 and up trucks, is a 350, SB1, with the newer vortec heads.

For an L03 I think that maybe the L30 engine's heads, this is a 305 in '96. would be the choice, I'm assumming that since the L31's heads were the vortec design, that the L30 had the same design but for the 305.

LS1's are SB3's.

[This message has been edited by Keith5 (edited January 08, 2001).]

 

The original SBCs are GenIs. The last GenIs produced in a vehicle from GM were the L30 (305 Vortec) and the L31, (350 Vortec).

The reverse flow cooling L99, LT1, and LT4 are Gen IIs

The LS1, LS6, and NEW (4.8L, 5.3L 6.0L) Vortec truck engines are GenIIIs

The SB2 is a GenI block with differnt heads intended for NASCAR. You can see them in the GM performance parts handbook. The new version of thses are slightly updated and called SB2.2

------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS-6
[soon to be Torch Red with black hood and headlights =) ]

305, TBI, auto, 14x3 chrome flat based open element with K&N, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips....

Super GRK_Taz World
EFI & Intake Options
AOL IM: superGRtaz
ICQ 82881207

[This message has been edited by Tas (edited January 08, 2001).]

 

So what do you think about a set L30 (305 Vortec)on an L03? I don't have any specs on the heads. Are the combustion chamber's the same size as L03 heads?

 

L30 heads on a L03 would kick a$$. the chambers should be the same but the heads would ba hard to find. And the price for a new set is way too much ($754 a pair) You can mill some L31 heads to fit to get the compression back up.

 

305 Vortec: https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/000186.html

 

I'd better get this straight while this topic is open.

Will the LS1 heads bolt to a truck engine?

Will LT1 heads bolt to a regular small block, but not work because of the reverse cooling.?

Will the SB2 heads in the catalog work fine on older GEN I production blocks.

 

most parts are only swapapble in the same generation.

"I'd better get this straight while this topic is open.
Will the LS1 heads bolt to a truck engine?"

yes they will bolt to another GenIII block. Thats is a '99+ (4.8L, 5.3L, 6,0L Vortec) engine as long as the valves have clearance, which might be an issue with the smaller engines.

"Will LT1 heads bolt to a regular small block, but not work because of the reverse cooling.?"

they they will physicly bolt up but will not work without extreme modifications

"Will the SB2 heads in the catalog work fine on older GEN I production blocks."

Yes but it is expensive and requires some custom parts due to the altered intake/exaust valve layout. It requires different cams and pistons along with a special intake. Custom headers are also needed. Car and Driver had Ligenfelter build a 427 small block chevy using a racing block with these heads for their 40th anaversery car. They put it in a '95 Vette.

 

Thanks.

 

Just to answer the question about the vortec heads being legal in cali. No, as far as I know you can't just say Oh, they're newer heads and a new engine so it must pass. That's not true from what I've heard. The vortec 350 is from at TRUCK/SUV. They don't require EGR passages like our cars do. We also would fail visual with the vortecs. I know you didn't want to hear that but it's the truth. I personally don't give a rats *** if it passes visual. I'd rather move to another state then fail some stupid "visual inspection." I'm in NJ and I'm getting the 330hp vortec 350 no questions anymore. It's the best bang for buck and it's very clean with my CAT and air pump all being installed. Don't tell me to not risk it because I have friends that work at many inspection stations/private garages too. I'm sure they'll overlook the visual as long as it passes all other tests.

------------------
, Jon (91 RS too many mods to list), getting new engine in summer

 

Do the heads determine if you can have an EGR valve? I thought that was all in the intake.

My dads 88 truck has an egr valve, but it's an L05.

[This message has been edited by Keith5 (edited January 09, 2001).]

 

The Heads have to be cast with an exhaust crossover to have an egr in the intake. The vortecs dont have these crossovers. I've heard the factory vortec motors use an egr... but they pull the exhaust gasses from the exhaust manifolds.

I'm no expert but isnt there some kind of emissions law that says you can swap a newer motor into an older car as long as it keeps all of the newer motors emissions devices?

 

Yeah, I've got a '98 Vortec 350 crate motor in my '68 Camaro with an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake and Holley 650cfm carb and it screams! The car hasn't been put through its paces yet as it isn't really street worthy right now, but we're working on that!

------------------
'68 Camaro - Vortec 350
'85 Camaro Z28 - 305 TPI - FOR SALE
'91 Camaro RS - 305 TBI

 

I'm almost positive it's not just a "newer vehicle," but actually same type of vehicle. Hell, I could swap in a turbocharged BB from the new Mack trucks right? NO. Suv's don't have as strick emissions tests as cars do and that is why the gov is worried about the increasing number of them. They're top heavy, slow, and get bad gas milage just so the driver can feel like they'll live if they get into a bad accident.

------------------
, Jon (91 RS too many mods to list), getting new engine in summer

 

Here's the Final Word about L31 heads on an <b LO3 b>.

They will bolt right up.

they must be milled .045-.050 to keep compression up

You can get them drilled and tapped for the old style intake pattern for extra money. You can order them from JIM PACE Performance parts. So you don't neccessarily need a special intake. 484.00 is the cost for the drilled and tapped ones. 424.00 is the cost for regular ones. That is assembled for the pair.

All sensors that are currenlty in your heads now will also fit in the L31's.

If you do mill them for a 305 you will need an intake adapter or have your Intake milled to match because that is enough drop that your intake gasket cannot compensater for it.

If you have more questions Please email me and I'll fill you in. I've been researching these heads for over a year now and I know pretty much all there is to know about them and putting them on my LO3. And If I don't know it I can prolly find it out.

Later,
Lars

------------------
'92 RS 305 TBI
K&N Open Element
Ultimate TBI mod's (thanks Pablo)
Cam[.442"/.465"] x 218*/224* @ .050", 10:1 Hypereutectic Pistons
Performer Manifold
Shift Kit, Corvette servo,
and 2800 Stall Trans Specialties Converter,
Gutted Cat, IAT Resistor
MSD Blaster Coil, Accel Cap and Rotor

 

hay , pablo I took the convertible to the track ,Man I still didnt hook up , Ispun all through first, but it still ran a 13.80@ 100mph. Im happy though, and I know if i hook Ill hit a mid 13. So any way , for a 4000 # car. and a stock motor Im satisfied and I know that if you put this same motor in yours , 12s are not far away..........
and anyone else willing to put a little time into there swap.......

peace and goodluck to everyone..
its a great setup, seeya on the road...

 

pablo is on vacation but congrats on the run

 

thanks TAZ .....