sorry if the topic was misleading, i just read it. I need some ideas to make my car go really really really fast, and i really don't want to dump a new engine into my car to do so.

------------------
1992 Pontiac Firebird
- 5.0L V8 TBI
- Automatic Trans

 

how fast is realy realy fast? You can Start by getting new heads cam and exhaust and all the little things and some other free modifications like ultimate tbi stuff and other things you can do by your self. After that you can be fast but not realy realy fast

 

To make it run 12's, or maybe even 13's(depends on milage), u might as well drop a 350 or larger in there. More cost efficent. Not doggin' 305's, I love mine to death cause I beat it to death and it still runs great, but for performance, they really arn't too economical. With the grand u would spend on heads alone(decent ones anyway), you could put together a block, steel crank, and forged rod and piston. Then find some used heads, good intake, port it all, and viola. Great place to start a buildup, cause I doubt u could bust it.(Well, 40* base timing would do it) Just my opinon, though.

------------------
14X3 o.e., functional formula hood(for sale in future), uhhh..., umm...

Am I the only person who believes a car has feelings, emotions, and a soul??

 

Firbird basically said it: heads, cam and Headers and catback with heads being the biggie.

I consider 14's quick, 13's fast, 12's realy fast and 11's really super fast. I'd be happy with a low 14's car which is easily obtained with a 305.


------------------
EVILFACE

88 Camaro
Stock 305 TBI Auto,Flowmaster, Full 3" Exhaust, B&M Megashifter, K&N Open Element
Runs A Blistering 16.5 @ 81.5 mph

http://www.evilface.com/evilscamaro.htm

 

hit me off on IM some time. i have some plans to put my car into the 12's and keep it as my daily driver. i am already in the low 14's with a lot left in the car.
IM= TJM574

lata
tim

------------------
91 Camaro RS-LO3,Auto.
14.209@95.46mph
Best 60' 1.917
Check Out The East Coast F-Body Nationals Home Page
www.geocities.com/njspeeder

My MAFB.ORG Home Page
www.mycar.net/mafb/registry/detail.cfm?id=299

DSI Racing Home Page
www.geocities.com/foff667

 

How do u make a 305 TBI really super fast? You really super fast get rid of the 305 and get a 350.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

i have a 305 tbi and still streetable and best time to date is 13.21 @ 101.86 MPH so whoever says a 350 is needed is just taking the easy way out

 

Oh yeah, I guess u could use NOS on that 305. Lets see how long that engine lasts though. And isn't NOS more of an "easy" way out of getting horsepower than dropping in a 350 or something else and doing it the real way?

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited May 14, 2001).]

 

How much would it cost to purchase a 350 TBI used? What about installation?

------------------
1992 Pontiac Firebird
- 5.0L V8 TBI
- Automatic Trans

 

I never said u HAVE to have a 350 to hit twelve's, it is just more economical on one. (Notice, he chose mine:P). To answer ONJ's question, it all depends(like everything in life) on where u get it from. Getting from a junkyard is a BIG risk, but cheaper to get a whole engine. I would get it from another person. Don't pay more than 500 for a used one, though. You can go to Advanced Auto Parts(or your local chain) and usually buy a stock 350 brand new for about $1000.

------------------
305 TBI, 700r4, 2.73 peg-leg...WS6 is good, though
14X3 o.e., functional formula hood(for sale in future), uhhh..., umm...
Soon to be dual TBI, heh, heh, heh
Am I the only person who believes a car has feelings, emotions, and a soul??

 

Install a respectable cam, enlarge the valve sizes, and open the ports on the heads. Install a decent intake that will accept two TBI units and provide an ingition system that is reliable to 6,000 RPM. Disable one of the IACs and one of the TPS units, parallel the injector wiring, and have fun with the clock.

You don't need no stinkin' 350 to go fast...

------------------
Later,
Vader
------------------
"Fear is how I fall, Confusing what is real..."
Adobe Acrobat Reader

 

Yeah, all u have to do is all of what Vadar said. Haha!

Only 305 I have ever seen that ran low 12 was a 305 TPI that is on here and he has ever mod possible plus a Supercharger PLUS a 75 shot of NOS. Hey, if u want to go thru all that to get a low 12 with ur 305, be my guest. Seems more logical and less expensive to just get the 350 with less modifications and run the same dang time and have more potential afterwards.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited May 14, 2001).]

 

to go 12's you won't need 2 tb's or anything else very fancy. actually it can all be done with the same type of stuff that most people do to a 350 to run 12's.
a good set of off the shelf heads are always a good place to start, i use edelbrock performer centerbolts with a 60cc chamber because i like the weight savings of aluminum, a lot of other people have had great success with the world products torquer 305 heads, the chamber is 58cc just liek stock so you keep all of your compression and the port design is very efficient, they are iron and weigh more but the will also lighten your wallet far less
there are 2 roads to take on the intake side too. get a traditional 4barrel intake and get the holley adaptor to put your tb on it, this opens up the possibility of using an intake the is designed for more high rev power like a performer rpm or a street dominator or get the edelbrock performer tbi intake which is a direct bolt on, which makes it easier, but the performer design starts to run out of air around teh 5300-5400rpm mark.
the cam is another area where you have 2 schools of thought. i am a big believer int he air velocity school of power(it makes torque, and torque makes you move ). for the most part with a 305's narrow bore you will want to stick with a cam that has less than .460-.465 total valve lift. if you go much past this point the valve will be too close to the wall for air to move into the cyl. properly. you can make up for this by selecting a cam that ahas a little longer duration, this will help extend the power band, but it will cost you some gas mileage. the best quick, easy, and cheap solution i have found is actually the stock cam out of a 285hp rated F-Body LT1. it has a 450intake and 460 exhaust lift and enough duration to put the peak power just above the 5000rpm mark. i picked mine up for 20bucks.
the tb is the biggest debating point i think. the factory tb can be worked out to give a lot of flow at very high velocities, how ever it does not have the total air flow at high rpm that some people like to see. at that point a switch to either a 454TBI thaottle body or a holley 670cfm(they both actually flow the same) would be suggested.
the other big thing about runnign a 12 is the car itself. it only takes about 285hp at the wheels for a 3400lbs car to run a 12 second mph(about 103-104 mph with an auto). the question is the rest of the combo. you need traction and the right gear to get the job done.

lata
tim
tim

------------------
91 Camaro RS-LO3,Auto.
14.209@95.46mph
Best 60' 1.917
Check Out The East Coast F-Body Nationals Home Page
www.geocities.com/njspeeder

My MAFB.ORG Home Page
www.mycar.net/mafb/registry/detail.cfm?id=299

DSI Racing Home Page
www.geocities.com/foff667

 

Does anyone even know anyone that did something to that nature to their 305? That did all what Tim said and has numbers? Cause that would help out a lot instead of just pointing out put this and that on and u will run this time.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

On a less serious note, to make your TBI go really really really fast, drive to the highest cliff you can find, and drive it over the edge. It will go really really really fast and at the end it will stop really really really fast

I couldn't resist, but seriously, I can't really add much to this conversation that hasn't already been mentioned.

------------------
Member of the Jersey Fbody Crew(JFA)

1989 Camaro Convertible RS
dark silver w/black top
305tbi, auto, 2.73 posi
SLP exhaust, 16x8 black
Check out Phil's Rice Boy Page

 

Wow guys, thanks for all of your help. So i should expect to find a used 350 for around $500? That sounds good to me! My friend is selling his 89 IROC for $5000. Heres its specs:

- 5.7L 350 TPI
- Automatic Trans w/ B&M shift kit/performer
- Headers, coated and polished by himself
- Flowmaster exhaust with high flow cat
- Fast Chip, unknown brand
- K&N Filters, etc
- Posi rear end
Runs 1/4 mile in low 13s to high 12s. Best time is 12.95.

I don't want to sell my firebird to get his car, so dumping the different engine is good, right? And the fact that the front end of a Firebird is sexier than an IROC, as well as more aerodynamic, maybe someday I can be faster than him.

By the way, I'm 16 years old

------------------
1992 Pontiac Firebird
- 5.0L V8 TBI
- Automatic Trans

 

Actually, if I were u. I would see how good his car runs and if it runs good and passes your inspection, I would sell that Firebird in a heart beat and buy his car. Would save u a sh*t load of headaches in the future. Cause even if the body is not all that great, it can be restored for the same price or less than u would have put into ur firebird in making it run the same times he runs. Cause there are guys on here that have 350HO crate engines and run probably mid to high 13's with traction and they paid for the car and then had to pay for the 350HO and extra parts to have it install and work with everything. When u could get all of that for much less and not have to worry about dropping in anything cause its already in there and runs a high 12. Sounds like a VERY nice deal to me.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited May 16, 2001).]

 

Also, I would ask to see his timeslip. Thats a pretty good time for the mods he has. ALmost unbeilvable. Remember to copy the VIN number down and check that out to see what came on the car stock and posi came stock on IROC-Z's, well on the L98's I know for sure they did. So if he tells u thats a mod, it isn't, unless he has some high performance one I guess. But check under the hood and ask to see if he has any of his old timeslips.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

i am working on it eric. the rear has to get fixed and i need sub frame connecters. then the motor stuff will be going in. i hope to have it all together and tuned before the east coast nats so i can show off a little
it will be done in time, a perfect tune up will be a problem to get done in only 2 months.

lata
tim



------------------
91 Camaro RS-LO3,Auto.
14.209@95.46mph
Best 60' 1.917
Check Out The East Coast F-Body Nationals Home Page
www.geocities.com/njspeeder

My MAFB.ORG Home Page
www.mycar.net/mafb/registry/detail.cfm?id=299

DSI Racing Home Page
www.geocities.com/foff667

 

I'm surprised no one mentioned gears. If your looking to have some fun on the street, toss in some 4.10's and upgrade your suspension. It will make it ALOT more enjoyable to drive. After that, then get into the engine stuff. I have seen so many people toss too much under the hood and neglect what gets it to the ground. Low times in the quarter are great, but if you want to have fun with it, keep it made for the street where you drive 99% of the time. I lost to a 500hp 94 331 supercharged stang by only TWO CAR LENGTHS by the next stoplight. The differenc: I had traction, he had power. Thank god that light was red, or I would have been lost cause he was sure leavin me fast after he hooked up. Just rambling.

Jerry

-------------------------
89 RS Lt Blue T-Tops T5
355 Crate, Compucam 2040
Pst Front Hotchkis Rear
Edle. TES 3" Flowmaster
Harwood hood, bla, bla, bla...
94 Z28, LT1 6M, Black
Most of the bolt-ons
-------------------------

[This message has been edited by 89RS355 (edited May 16, 2001).]

 

BUY MY JET CHIP!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cg...ndexURL=0&rd=1

------------------
'89 RS camaro: 305 TBI, 700R4. Upgrades: Edelebrock proflow air filter open element, Dynomax Superflow cat, American Thunder Flowmaster 3 in. in and dual 3 in. out, Stage 2 Jet performance chip. 160 thermostat. New paint job.

 

buy my hyperteh chip!!

 

4.10 you have to rev pretty high and have a lot of horse power to use that combo i am pretty sure 3.42 gears are good for the tbi engine

 

yeah, throwing some 4.10s will get you off the line ALOT quicker, but if you want to keep it as a daily driver, I would go no less than 3.73s, I personally think 3.42s would be the best thing to do, it will help of the line and it will also keep your RPMs descent at highway speeds, where running 4.10s on the highway might be a little "unhealthy" for you engine.

 

Sell the RS for what its worth
http://www.kellybluebook.com
And use that money to buy that IROC-Z man. I promise u right now, u will regret not buying it once u get into modding that 305.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

Okay yeah I DO want to dump a 350 in there, but this is my only car and don't wanna ruin everything etc. So I asked my uncle about it and he said I should get a new throttle body, camshaft, and a complete exhaust system, and I'd be really quick.

What would it take to make a 305 TBI hit 13s?
Okay with $1000 (not including labor) make a 305 TBI "really super fast" for me.

------------------
1992 Pontiac Firebird
- 5.0L V8 TBI
- Automatic Trans

 

if you want to hit 13's on the cheap here is my idea.
gears and posi: an slp torson diff is about $100 and 3.73 gears are about $170 plus about $200 for the install= $470
if you know anyone who can weld it is time to make the hi-po cheapy suspension: pull the stock control arms off and box them, then apply the same treatment to the torque arm and panhard rod. you can buy heavy enough steel to do all of this at home depot for about $25 and some poly bushings for the control arms and torque arm will be another$50 prolly. then get some control arm relocaters to fix the geometry about $65= $130 for a good rear suspension.
now it's time to attack the power end of things. throttle body can be fully prepared for about $75 if you do the ultimate tbi, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and grab a set of 350 injectors from a salvage yard.
then go ahead with the rest of the ultimate tbi tricks(iat resister, open element, smog skip......) this will cost about another $30 or less usually.
then go classified shopping, so far this has cost about $700 and you could be running high 14's or very low 15's at least.
most of the time you can pick up a used hypertech thermomaster chip for $35 or even less if you get lucky, add a 160 t-stat and gasket and add a little initial timing(about 4degrees) and you can gain a full mph for about $45.
then look a little deeper and you can prolly find a used edelbrock performer tbi intake manifold for about $125, add gaskets and you can have another 1-2mph for about $150.
that takes the total spent up to $875 so far. from here there are a few options to look at. sometimes you can find used 1.6 roller tipped rockers around for $100 or less for a complete set, all you have to do is set a little more timing into it and it will run with no further computer mods. or you can sometimes find used 3 piece performance pulley sets for in the $50-$75 range. used throttle body spacers can be found on the cheap too, i have seen a couple of corian ones sell for $20 before. used exhaust systems are always floating around in the classifieds. and even header systems sell for pretty cheap used(anything with a good y-pipe can be good for a full mph or more).
odds are that all of this won't get you into the 13's unless the car is some kind of a freak but it will likely put you well into the 14's(prolly somewhere between 14.4 and 14.6@ about 92 or 93mph)if you can hook.
the othe rthing s to not forget are how much free "power" is already in the car. make sure your tune up is fresh and remove any un needed/ unwanted stuff from the car, take out the spare tire and jack and run with half a tank of gas or less. there are a thousand ways to save weight in our cars and be fairly subtle about it.
this knowledge has all come from 7 years of trial and error. i hope this helps some people.

lata
tim

------------------
91 Camaro RS-LO3,Auto.
14.209@95.46mph
Best 60' 1.917
Check Out The East Coast F-Body Nationals Home Page
www.geocities.com/njspeeder

My MAFB.ORG Home Page
www.mycar.net/mafb/registry/detail.cfm?id=299

DSI Racing Home Page
www.geocities.com/foff667

 

Add to this some heads, possibly 305 Torqers or Vortecs, and a cam of some sort. What would you have then? 13's? See, I've been trying to decide whether to get a 350 or mod the 305 and I cant decide. What would the gas mileage be on a 13 second L03? That's another problem to think about cause my stock L03 only gets 15-17 MPG now.

------------------
91 RS
Black w/ red tweed
t-tops
700 watt sound system
14x3 Open Element
80 Series Flowmaster
Will be faster soon!


88 GTA WS6
Red with grey cloth
K&N Filters
TPIS Airfoil
Future Restoration

 

Extra stuff you might want to consider:
8" balancer and heavy flexplate/flywheel
They will give you more torque off the line which will equal better 1/4 times (if you hook).

------------------
, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

 

the rest of the el cheapo saga

there are some other little things you can do that will help to make any car faster from a traction point of view. dropping the front sway bar cna be worth a lot of weight transfer and it costs $0. also when you are at the salvage yard look for a really beat set of struts, they will help the fron tend to release as well.
i forgot to mention in the money figuring that you could prolly get a pretty good cam for hte remaining money. since hydraulic rollers rarely wear out you could easily pick up an L98 or LT1 can for $20-$30 from any f-body classifieds page.
one thing to really remember is that et's come down to traction, plain and simple. if you see a good set of tires(26 inch tall drag radials or slicks) they will give you more of a gain than a lot of the other stiff on this list right away.
if you have a somewhat steady hand doing a home port job on the heads will always net some gains and the kit to do it is only like $40 i think.
i don't know if there is a definate way to get intot he 13's for this kind of budget, but i can't see how it would take too much more if you plan correctly.

lata
tim

------------------
91 Camaro RS-LO3,Auto.
14.209@95.46mph
Best 60' 1.917
Check Out The East Coast F-Body Nationals Home Page
www.geocities.com/njspeeder

My MAFB.ORG Home Page
www.mycar.net/mafb/registry/detail.cfm?id=299

DSI Racing Home Page
www.geocities.com/foff667

 

You guys rock
I am 16 years old and this is my daily driving car


I want to beat a 5.0 stang, help me

------------------
1992 Pontiac Firebird
- 5.0L V8 TBI
- Automatic Trans

 

Here's my .02 - a good friend of mine has a well worn 1992 RS w/ over 100K on the clock. He is a cheap skate too. This is what we did, and what it cost him.

3.73 gears and posi $400
underdrive pulleys $60
TPI car manifolds,
Y-pipe, and lead pipe $35
Gutted cat. $0
Bumped timing $0

He already had a flowmaster when he got the car. So it has that too. Basically it ran 16.8 - 17.0 when he got it, now it has run a best of 15.5 at 89 MPH. Not super fast, but a lot of potential still left in the car. I'm trying to talk him into headers and some Nitto drags. I think he would pull a 14.9 out of the car. Hope this will help some.

 

Well what would be the best mod to do FIRST for the cheapest amount of money?

What will a TransGo Shift kit take my 1/4 mile down to from stock?

------------------
1992 Pontiac Firebird
- 5.0L V8 TBI
- Automatic Trans

 

open element around $70 with K&N
elderbrock headders $320
any cat back
free modifications such as the ultamate tbi's
pick one

 

Here's my plan for the summer (granting I have cash!)

Current mod (singular):
Open element (summit: $20 w/paper filter)

Waiting to be put on:
3.42 posi rear from a 99 Z28 ($325 shipped)

Hopefully soon:
Dynomax headders ($289 - $25 rebate = $264)
Dynomax cat ($80)
SLP I-Pipe ($110)
used SLP 2OTL muffer/tips ($50)
KYB GR-2 Shocks ($40 for both)
used Hypertech chip ($50)
K&N Filter ($40)

And perhaps I'll try to find a set of used slicks and rims. With the new rear I'll be able to run 4th gen rims without spacers and generally I see more people selling salad shooter type rims with slicks for pretty cheap. Im hoping for high 14's with this setup, which would put me in stock L98 country and I should be beating auto 5.0 stangs.

Added up that's $979 for parts and $1029 after shipping. I'll do all the installs with my dad, so labor will be nothing. Now I just gotta come up with the money

------------------
Chuck Kulchar
1991 RS

 

as of right now i get about 25mpg on the highway, and that is with my converter lock up not working. i think once i get that fixed it will be around 27mpg. around town kinda depends where you live, i get crappy mileage because i live in the state with the most stop lights per square mile and it is time for every one to bring the nice cars out of storage. i can see anywhere from 12-17mpg depending on who i catch at lights around town.

lata
tim

------------------
91 Camaro RS-LO3,Auto.
14.209@95.46mph
Best 60' 1.917
Check Out The East Coast F-Body Nationals Home Page
www.geocities.com/njspeeder

My MAFB.ORG Home Page
www.mycar.net/mafb/registry/detail.cfm?id=299

DSI Racing Home Page
www.geocities.com/foff667

 

Yeah, I get around 25 on the highway but most of my driving is around town

 

You people are stuipd. I am sorry but I just can't stand it anymore. Why are u telling this kid to stick with his 305 and forget about that modified IROC-Z. He is running a low 13 u said right? Ok now look around at all the times we are running with our 305 TBI's. U see a lot high 12's and low 13's on this TBI board? I doubt u do. U see Tim's 14.2 with all his mods but still has the stock cam and some kinks to work out and he will probably be mid 13's when he has that all figured out. But look at what these people have to do to these 305's to get get them to run these times they pull. They either use NOS or have to replace every d-mn part of the block because its all restrictive anyways. Listen to me, sell that RS and make a deal with the guy with the 13 second IROC-Z. Ask for timeslips though so u know for sure, even see if he has is high 12 one still. But I am tellin ya right now. If you go threw with this making ur 305 "super duper fast" thing u will regret leaving that IROC-Z. Cause u will have a sh*t load more potential with that IROC-Z then u will ever have with that RS. Cause u already have the awesome suspension with the IROC-Z. The 16" rims. The L98 engine, slightly modded. I won't lie, I regret buying my 305 TBI car. I love my body style and if I had to do it over again I would get the same body style but a formula with an L98 in it. I couldn't imagine u don't like the body style of the IROC-Z since it is almost exactly the same as ur RS.
If anything, atleast take the IROC for a spin and floor it a couple of times, and then ride in ur car and floor that a couple of times. Then tell me which car u think is worth modding to start with. 5,000 bucks is cheap for a modded nice looking IROC-Z and it is a lot cheaper than what u will have to look forward to in the future with ur RS. You spent 4000-5000 bucks for the RS (guessing) and now ur about to dump almost 7,000 more into the car if u want to drop a 350 in it and mod that engine and mod the tranny and suspension/rims/tires (cause if u want to beat other cars u will need traction) and then ur rear end (gears,posi) and burning the right prom. Its not rocket science. U save money and time and A LOT of hassle if u sell the RS and buy the IROC-Z.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

dood....fords have 5.0s. Chevys have 305s. There is a difference

 

Fords don't have 5.0s, they have 4.9 v8s. The 302=4.948893328 liters. Chevys have 5.0s aka 305.

Now Eric, I'm going to rip your head off in a second. I want you to think of a few things. Potential vs. Starting point. Both cars have potential, the RS actually has MORE since it's got a weak starting point. I didn't want to jump in on this but I think I'm obligated to list everything you can do to the RS to make it faster than the Iroc.
$3000 for a 330hp 350 engine that includes everything being new, you can do better I'm SURE. $50 for swaybars, $200 for springs, $400 for new shocks and you will handle the same if not better than the IROC with the same size wheels. Now for the rear setup, $500 and you'll have 3.73 posi. That comes to a total of $4150 and you have a VERY fast car with more potential than the IROC. I'd like to see this IROC if it's running high 12's and he's selling it for only $5000.
If it's the truth then I would go with the IROC of the RS. You'll have a fast car right out of the box so to speak.
The 350 is a good bonus, there are some people that like to be unique and there are some that go straight for bang for buck. Tim is the unique guy, Eric and me are bang for buck. The difference between me and Eric is that I like to invest money into my RS to make it faster.
It's up to you, if you want a run street car then go with the IROC.



------------------
, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

 

eric,
please explain to me where you are coming from man. do you think that the plan that i hatched to put him on the brink of 13's for about $1000 is wrong?
you go off on these rants about how stupid we all are, yet i don't see anything constructive coming from your end. you seem to spend all of your time telling people to go buy new cars or plunk down big nucks on crate motors. neither of these are very do able on the $1000 budget that was proposed.
just ask jprevost about engine swaps. he had a solid plan and even got a lower priced crate motor and it still ended up costing at least 2.5 times what the budget was in this situation.
all i am asking you to do eric is to either justify your position or cut out the rants.

lata
tim


------------------
91 Camaro RS-LO3,Auto.
14.209@95.46mph
Best 60' 1.917
Check Out The East Coast F-Body Nationals Home Page
www.geocities.com/njspeeder

My MAFB.ORG Home Page
www.mycar.net/mafb/registry/detail.cfm?id=299

DSI Racing Home Page
www.geocities.com/foff667

 

Shoot your car out of a cannon

------------------
*1989 RS
*Red, Daytona Turbo fiberglass hood, chrome 16x8 IROC wheels
*355 CID
*TPI ported plenum, SLp siamesed runners, Edelbrock high flow intake
*Edelbrock TES Headers (getting SLP 1 3/4 this summer)
*Richmond 3.73
Modded 700-R4, 2800 stall converter
NO recent time slips.

 

When did I tell him to drop a crate engine in his ride? I never recommend that. I told him NOT to go thru all that. And the stuff Jprovest said is all good and cool. But where is the install costs of that stuff? You think this newbie is gonna know how to swap an engine in? Change his heads? Swap in his cam? Do a cat-back system? Change his exhaust manifolds? Change his rear end out and drop his transmission down so he can work on it? Where are the new rims and tires prices at? U think he is gonna want the 15" rims with the pizza cutters that came stock with it for his future 13 second 305? Nope. Where are the SFC's? I doubt he can since he doesn't know what to do with his engine right now. You can't just assume that this will only cost 50 bucks or this will just cost 350 because it never comes to that. It is always 100 more because something always comes up when u do this stuff. Tim and J should know this. So ur 1000 dollar budget is not doable. You have to look deeper into things and not just the cost of the main part ur getting.

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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited May 21, 2001).]

 

okay Eric, let me put this out for you to toy around with in your head. I've NEVER done an engine swap until my car. It took me 2 weeks because of STUPID mistakes. You can do an engine swap in 1 week. I had to wait 4 days before I put the engine in because I had to order a harmonic balancer and I couldn't put my waterpump on or the engine in without it.
If you want more numbers then pay somebody else. I didn't and I did my engine swap. It's not a hard thing, you just need to do a little research on your free time. It never costs more than $100 for something to be done unless you are too busy not to do it yourself. I am a newbie, I still am and I did an engine swap with a couple friends. One of them hooked up my starter solinoid wrong and that took me 3 full days to figure out because he didn't lable the wires before he pulled them. Then I and Tim ****ed up the TPS sensor and so the engine thought it was at WOT when it was really at idle. That was more down time which could be easily avoided if properly planned out and researched.
A cam swap....that isn't a big deal if you don't mind getting your hands dirty. It's all about time. If you plan on paying somebody else to do it then you shouldn't be hanging around thirdgen, this is a place for people that don't trust mechanics! We're all do it yourselfers that are here to help other do it yourselfers. I said that if he doesn't want to spend time then get the IROC. I'm sticking with that and so I agree with you BUT, the IROC isn't going to be problem free, keep that in mind. Also it's more expensive to mod the IROC, just look at the cost for USED injectors. The cheapest way for him with only $1000 is intake, cam, gears. If you have more money later on, get some good heads.
Borrow tools if you don't have your own.

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, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

[This message has been edited by JPrevost (edited May 21, 2001).]

 

Im going to say this once and only once.

There's a reason he's selling his IROC that he has prolly $1000+ (it's not all that easy to put a L98 into mid 13's) the in mods for $5000.

You cant touch a decent L98 for $5k in my neck of the woods. Hell, you cant touch a LB9 for that much. And the only time you can is when its some middle aged lady who divorced her husband and took his car. That's it.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the car is in pristine mechanical shape. And if it is, and you dont have any attachment to your car, sell it and get the IROC. But just please, for the sake of your wallet, get it checked out good by a reputable mechanic. That's the best advice I can give to you.

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Chuck Kulchar
1991 RS

 

I agree with chuck. If u go with the IROC, get it checked out by a friend mechanic that some distant relative may know. And see if u can have him check for codes if the owner doesn't mind. If he doesn't. u could do it urself with a tech article thats on here. All u need is a paper clip and a list of the codes definitions that or on here.

Let me ask One Eye this. Do u know or have any friends that live by u that have done or know about engines and have tools to do an engine swap? Just curious. Because rarley do newbies do engine swaps by themselves. J didn't, he had Tim and Tim has worked a lot with engines and he really knows his stuff. Does this guy know anyone like that? Who knows. But thats all I am saying. He could save himself a sh*t load of hassle and money and time if he would sell his RS and buy the IROC-Z. Cause I am guessing he doesn't have a lot of money to spend and it would be wiser to start with spending 1000 extra after selling his RS for the IROC-Z and having to cough up that extra 1000 for a L98 low 13 second car than slowly modding the hell out of his 305 to run with the car he could have just bought. Hell, he is paying a 1000 extra for a 350, IROC Suspension,16" rims and nice tires and the engine is modded already so he can start where the guy left off. And all he had to do was spend an extra 1000 bucks after selling his RS for 4000. And thats if he can't get 5000 for it. If he can get 5 for the RS then he doesn't have to spend a dime!

Look at it like this; if I did the mods I have done to my 305 to an L98 formula I would not be running 15.4 thats for guarn d-mn sure and u can't argue that one bit. I would be deep into 13's no doubt about it. Yet I am 15.4 still. But in order for a 305 to run mid 13's u have to change every part on the engine and tranny and rear end. Plus different suspension/rims and tires for traction. It just makes no sense why u would choose a 305 TBI RS over a L98 IROC-Z when there both the same damn price almost! On an L98 engine/IROC, u don't really need to touch much of the engine or any of the suspension almost. Get a full exaust system, shift kit with a TC, higher gears and maybe a chip and some other small mods and I guarentee u are mid 13's EASY and if u want to go faster than that, then start getting into the block with different heads,cam,intake,runners,ect. And u will see 12's easy. Is any of this making sense to anyone else or are they just not posting?


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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited May 21, 2001).]

 

makes sense to me. sorry eric i wasnt awake when you IMed me.

but ya, why would you pay a price for less of a car when you could get a better car for the same price.

lets stretch reality here for a second.
ferrari = $5,000
yugo = $4,000

which do you buy?

so the lines arent as clear here, but the principal is the same.

 

o ya, and btw,

i used to be really atached to my car.
i used to think, damn, ive done a ton of mods to this think that make it my own how could i ever sell it.

then i remembered, all the things ive done to my car, i could do to a new thirdgen in about 2 days, because ive done them before and wouldnt make the same time eating mistakes that i did before.

i had a chance to buy a 91 z28 convertable with a 305tpi with less miles than my car. it was a thousand more than i could sell mine for. 10k miles less on the od. and a black convertable compared to my 92rs with an l03. if i had that same choice to make today, i woulda talked em down 500 and took it. then again, my insurance would have raped me to hell and gone by now. but, i would have a black z28 convertable. and in 20 years, itll be worth more than my 92rs.

 

Yes, quite a few people I know can do this. I live in a ******* town, and my friend is 17 and practically runs an auto shop in Detroit. He just put NOS in his 67 'stang. I guess I could ask him if he could find me a 350 with around 300 horsepower



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1992 Pontiac Firebird
- 5.0L V8 TBI
- Automatic Trans

 

oh f-ck! your from Michigan?! So am I! LoL. I didn't even bother to read where u were from. I am from the flint area but I go to school in the fall and spring at Central Michigan in Mt. Pleasant. Sh*t man. I know a few buddies of mine that wouldn't mind helpin u with a 350! But I would still sell ur RS and get the IROC just to save the trouble and hassle and plus....the IROC-Z is worth A LOT more than the RS will ever truly be if u keep it looking great and runnin great too.

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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited May 23, 2001).]