My new 350 is finally being dropped in. I am really excited and I hope everything will go smoothly.
I had a 1991 Formula 305e TBI until the oil pump went out. The new engine is the Recon 708520HD with gear drive and have set it up with the Weiand 300-49 intake manifold and the 670CFM Holley TBI 502-6. K&N 14x3 element with X-Stream Lid, Flowtech Headers, Highflow Cat, Flowmaster 80 exhaust.
Flywheel is different, being as the new engine is an internally balanced vis-a-vis the externally balanced 305.
The chip I have is the stock one and a Hypertech Thermomaster for the 305. I am hoping that the chip will work with the 350.
Other little mods have been done, normal 305-350 pains, but I am wondering if anyone has done the Holley 670CFM TBI with the matching Weiand intake manifold?
I am very interested in any comments or suggestions.

[This message has been edited by Snowdog 91 Formula (edited May 20, 2001).]

 

What are the cam specs and what heads do you have? I have the GM vortec crate engine with the holley 670 and I DID use a hypertech thermomaster chip before I started doing custom eprom burning. I think everybody that goes with the 350 TBI starts off with a hypertech thermomaster, me, z28 boy, you, that's all that I know of that have done the 350 TBI!
What year is the block 2 piece or 1 piece? Since my block is a newer with 1 piece I reused the 305 flexplate. If you have a 2 piece then you're right with using a different plate.
The chip will work but it won't run great. If you want to have throttle responce, better gas milage, and a better idle etc, you'll want a custom chip. Tell me you're engine specs and I could probably burn you a chip. Is your car an auto or stick?
Since you have so much air just sitting over the TB (x-stream lid etc) you'll definatly want me to adjust the pump shot. I say run the current chip for a while and check the spark plugs, get an idea about the vacuum and fuel pressure. Give me that info and e-mail me.


------------------
, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

 

1980-85 350 CHEVY 708520 HD

- 325 Horsepower
- Four Bolt Main
- 2.02 Intake/1.60 Exhaust Valves
- Flat Top Hypereutectic Pistons (10.0:1 COMPRESSION)
- Moly Rings
- Gear Drive
- Hardened Push Rods
- Cast Iron Crankshaft
- Cam Duration: Intake (292 Degrees) Exhaust (300 Degrees)
- Cam Lift: Intake (.490) Exhaust (.490)

I wish I had more information on the camshaft... I believe that duration is rated after .50.... Soooo.... that would make it about 225-235 lift. I know it is a BlueRacer/Wolverine.

This particular engine came with a 3 year warranty, and the price was right. Yes it is the 2 piece... The oil pan and the flexplate needed to be changed as well as some components on the block, but all in all, it wasn't too bad. The car is an automatic 700R4. 2:73 rear end gears right now.... The heads are cast. The engine was done by one mechanic and he took his time. Came out very sweet.

-Snowdog


[This message has been edited by Snowdog 91 Formula (edited May 20, 2001).]

 

Your going to need a higher stall converter with that cam and probable some deeper gears as well. You'll probably have a hard time getting it to idle at a reasonable speed do to the lack of vacuum and you'll also need to have the egr in the chip turned off. You may have selected a cam that is going to be hard to set up your tbi without the proper custom chip.

Steve

[This message has been edited by steve8586iroc (edited May 20, 2001).]

 

Stall converter is at 1600. I am considering a 2000-3000 stall. I am not sure, I am going to see what will happen. Yes I am concerned about the vacuum, and have been told that too.
I know the idle will be rough, but HOW rough? So loppy that I will have to get a new cam for the engine?
I don't know now. There is no way for me to know until it is actually running. I know how my friends racecar runs, and it doesn't come to life until about 3200 RPM, but his idle is about 1500. (Wish I knew what cam was in that thing....)

 

FYI- The 305 Chevy is not externally balanced. The only Chevy SB that was externally balanced was the 400.

As to your cam, the complete list of specs are as follows:
Duration @ .050" 232int 234exh
Advertised dur. 292int 300exh
Gross lift 1.5 rockers .490"int .490"exh
Lobe center 106int 110exh

I have a friend using that cam in his street/strip car and it makes pretty decent power as far as Hyd cams go. Wolverine Cams are actually ground and designed by Crane. Look on the back of any Wolverine cam box and you will see a "Crane Technologies" logo on there if you doubt it. They are good cams, contrary to the people I have heard say "Wolverine makes cheap cams" in the past. Crane makes great cams and Crane makes Wolverine. That cam will have a fairly rough idle as you know, and and is recommended for use with a 2500 RPM stall converter minimum. You could probably get away with a 2200 or so if you had to. You may also need to get a Vacuum can for the power brakes. I had the Edelbrock Performer RPM (which is another cam that is made by Crane, and sold under another name) cam which is very similiar to your cam, and my brakes were very "mushy" until I installed a Comp Vac Can. Your engine should make very good mid-range power and with a good stall, should be a very quick street car. I am not sure how the factory or Hypertech chip will work with that much duration, as my only experience with that cam as been on a carburated engine. The engine that my friend has does, however, have a 650 cfm Holley carb, so with the correct fuel pressure and computer calibration, your 670 cfm TB should be about perfect. Good Luck on your new engine, and keep us posted on your progress.


------------------
82 Z28 383, Ported 215cc Dart Iron Eagle Heads, Comp custom grind roller cam, Speed Pro .250" domes, Wheeler Motorsports 4340 I beam rods, Eagle 5140 steel crank, Weiand Team G intake, Holley 800 DP, hedman headers
Trans: Turbo 350 w/ 4000 stall -- Rearend 7.5 w/ Richmond 4.10's, Auburn Minispool
Best ET: *NEW ENGINE* untried at track!!


89 RS, L03 305, Hypertech Chip,cat delete, Dynomax exhaust,K&N open element Filter,160 stat, MSD coil --Trans:700R4 Corvette Servo -- Rearend: 7.5 GM 3.42 w/ posi-lock
New Best ET: 14.91 @92.9
Bassett Racing
Mid Atlantic F Body -82 Z28 Page

R.I.P. Dale Earnhardt #3

 

One piece rear main flexplate from my 91 TBI L03:
This is the external balanced 305, it's funky I know. I didn't think that was normal either but it is. I think I need to do some more research on this and do a tech article. I know how important it is to have a well balanced engine, last thing you'd want to do is install the wrong flexplate. It is SUCH a PITA to take out. You need to pull the engine or take off the trans and work from under the car .

------------------
, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

 

Jon,
I tried to send you an E-Mail but your addy doesn't work...
-Snowdog

 

All the 1 seal motors have an external balanced flexplate, 350 too. The dampner is neutral though.

 

Got the car back yesterday. I'm finally running on the road, it sounds very evil. Anyway, the car is running cool, and the oil pressure is right. The EGR Valve isn't on the intake due to the fact that it won't fit with the throttle body being in the way of it, unless I can find one that will fit.
It misses in the lower RPMS, and it runs a tad rich.
Vacuum is next to non-existant at idle, but when it gets around 2000+ RPM, it's about normal.
Airflow is good. I have run the car a little over 100 miles so far and so far so good.
Jon, I am not sure if you're getting my E-mail replies. I hope what I sent you helped.
I am just suprised that it's running so well.
The Engine is very tight, and it takes a LOT of juice to get it started, but once it is, it's very sweet.
Yesterday, the original battery in the car took a dive, (but it was old and sitting in there for over a month), so I got a new battery and things are fine.
Jon, if you can make a better chip that will help me, I would appreciate it. Sounds to me like we have almost the same setup.
The 3 prong connector that you're descirbing is from a chevy truck, 1985 or earlier for the TPS. I just happened to get lucky, because the mechanic that was putting my engine in had one.
The colors on it were NOT matched on the TPS. I sent you an E-mail that told you the color setting and I hope you got it.
I'm just happy to be on the road and running!
-Snowdog

 

JPrevost - I have a 350 TBI too!!

Good luck getting the chip to work right. You'll definitely be too rich. The only way to do it correctly is to find someone who knows how to burn chips specifically to YOUR car or learn yourself. I would caution you not to get a chip unless the person takes YOUR car and makes it with your car. There is no standard chip that will make your car run it's best. That's all I have to suggest ! Hopefully JPrevost can help you here.

------------------
88 firebird formula
350 Vortec TBI
214int/224exh, .471int/.491exh
Edelbrock headers
T56 - SIX-speed
open 3.73's
2 1/4 stock catback
I love pissing those LS1's off
My Formula

All your base are belong to us.

[This message has been edited by Birmass (edited May 27, 2001).]

 

I was going to say something but forgot what it was.

[This message has been edited by Snowdog 91 Formula (edited May 28, 2001).]

 

Oh yeah.
Got the thing running nice, discovered that my #5 plug wire was bad, got new plug wires, replaced them, now the car won't start.
Nothing. Nada. Nope no go.
Will not start.
Took off the distributor cap and all the points were corroded. The hacks at the shop DID NOT even check to see if the old distributor cap and rotor were corroded. They were.
I replaced them. Hooked up the wiring again.... Still no go.
I must have something connected wrong. It tries to turn over but it won't.
the wires are connected to the cap, going counter-clockwise, in this order...
1-2-7-5-6-3-4-8
The #1 connector is at the front of the cap, on the drivers side... (Towards #1 cylinder)
I am thinking, should I connect this in the opposite direction since this is a Chevy 350 and the distributor turns clockwise?
I think I messed up.
-Snowdog


[This message has been edited by Snowdog 91 Formula (edited May 29, 2001).]

 

Snowdog, I didn't get your e-mails, send to jprevost@crosswinds.net
I haven't had a chance to touch my car for a couple weeks now. Ordered a laptop and now I need some data log software to watch the ecm. Hopefully this will help me get my car back into the swing of things. I can't really program eproms for the car since it isn't running right (no clue, no ses light ). Once I get everything squared away I'll be back on track.
Birmass, what are your engine specs, any 1/4 mile ER/speeds?
SB firing order: 1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2

------------------
, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

[This message has been edited by JPrevost (edited May 29, 2001).]

 

Hope this gets through to you. Had a problem with my E-mail server the
other day, so it might be working now. Yeah the wiring is correct.... LOL
I looked at what Jeff (My friend) told me, and it is correct.
1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2... clockwise. What I believe it to be, is the rotor not
making contact with the center of the distributor cap.
Let me remember now on the TPS thing....
The 3-prong TPS connector you need for the Holley is a GM part, you can't
obtain it from an auto-parts store, and it is from a 1985 or prior chevy
truck with a 350 engine. The colors on the TPS do not connect color for
color....
from engine ---- TPS
Blue ---- Black
Gray ---- Blue
Black ---- Gray

The injectors DO connect color for color... never mind the illustration.

Hope that helps!

PS....
jprevost@crosswinds.net
Delivery failed
554 <aladdin.casinos>: Helo command rejected: Host not found


No recipients were successfully delivered to.

 

It runs now but....
It's running way too rich. The plugs were jet black with carbon and wet with fuel. Once I replaced all the plugs the car fired up just fine, but I amn afraid I'm not going to drive it until I get someone with the right diagnostic equipment to look at it. It's running terrible.
-Snowdog

 

If you have the POS Holley 2" TB unit, turn down the FP and that should help a lot. Unless you have a radical engine, the injectors that they supply are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to big. Anyhow, turn down the FP and it should become more operable. the allen head screw in the tower, turn it counter-clockwise, like loosening a screw. It VERY hard to turn, usually, so use a good allen head wrench. try one full turn OUT before you even start it again!!!


EDIT: you will find that you need new smaller injectors and/or a combo of that with a custom PROM. You'll get it, though. A scan tool would be nice as you could adjust FP until your BLMs are as close to 128 as possible, then tune/change from there.

[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited May 31, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited May 31, 2001).]

 

I called Summit technical support and they told me the biggest problem is the camshaft I have in there. It is a flat-tappet cam, instead of a hydraulic roller. This causes the computer to go crazy and the engine will never run properly.
I was told that I should go with the Crane 2030 camshaft. It is a hydraulic roller cam and is very computer friendly. The price is reasonable and I am seriously considering it. It does include the lifters.
I am still concerned about other little things, but this is a huge problem. I will try to back off the FP on the TBI unit, and I hope that will get me on the road at least.
Should I proceed?
The camshaft and specifications are here - http://www.cranecams.com/master/apps/chevy37.htm It is #4.



[This message has been edited by Snowdog 91 Formula (edited May 31, 2001).]

 

They are FOS. What cam do you have in there, now??? OEM? I did not see it posted. Please post .050" durations, lift and Lobe sep.

They are FOS to say you NEED a roller cam. That is absolute sheot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is a lie!!!!

EDIT: oops, saw your cam stuff but STILL need .050" duraion numbers (not adv, like youlisted) and need lobe seperation. If Lobe sep is 110 or less, you are probably in trouble. If .050" durations are more than 215deg, you are probably in trouble. If Lobe sep is 110 or less AND YOUR .050" dur is more than 215, you are DEFINATELY IN TROUBLE. But, it is not the cam type, just the cam profile. You can get a flat tappet cam to replace it or PROM around it. Your choice and even if you change the cam, you will probably have to PROM change, anyway, still. You surely do not NEED ONLY A ROLLER CAM TO FIX THE PROBLEM!!!

[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited May 31, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited May 31, 2001).]

 

What else do you need to know?


[This message has been edited by Snowdog 91 Formula (edited May 31, 2001).]

 

To quote Basset Racing:
As to your cam, the complete list of specs are as follows:
Duration @ .050" 232int 234exh
Advertised dur. 292int 300exh
Gross lift 1.5 rockers .490"int .490"exh
Lobe center 106int 110exh

I think I am in trouble.

FOS? I am not sure about that. I even talked to the gentleman that installed the engine and he told me that I need a different cam.

I was suggested that cam, and I appreciate the opinion.

I just want the car to run right.
-Snowdog

 

Trust me, they are FOS! You need a new cam but not a necessarily a roller to fix the problem.

That is a HUGE cam for GM TBI. It is a pretty big cam, in general! Big trouble for EFI. You either need a master PROM programmer and a dyno OR need to change the cam. If you want my recommendation on a cam, let me know. Sure, you could use a roller cam and I think you should if you can afford the added expense, but you don't have to.

 

Yeah, they are FOS. you just need a custom chip.

JPrevost - I've got a 350 4 bolt, flat tops, vortec heads, edelbrock performer 2116 intake, edelbrock headers, 670 holley, no EGR, custom chip by a friend on this board(not sure if he minds me mentioning his name), crane 214/224 - .470 int/.491 exh., flowmaster catback, 3.73's but they are open. Oh yeah, and a T56 six speed .

It's been together for about 8 months so far. Don't have times yet. Every time I try to go it rains . I haven't lost any races yet though. Even to LS1's.

------------------
88 firebird formula
350 Vortec TBI
214int/224exh, .471int/.491exh
Edelbrock headers
T56 - SIX-speed
open 3.73's
2 1/4 stock catback
I love pissing those LS1's off
My Formula

All your base are belong to us.

 

I have basically the same thing but I don't know what my lobe seperation is on this cam. You do have a slightly larger cam profile, is it roller and what kind of rocker arms are you using? It's the gm crate engine, I think it's around 112 but it could be 109, I don't know. I wish I had your drivetran wiht the 6 speed. Can't afford that right now but hopefully in the future. I'm getting my 3.73 gears and posi done next week hopefully.

------------------
, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

 

JP, your cam specs are 212/222 .050" dur, .435"/.460" lift, 112.5 lobe center. Yes, one hundred twelve and 1/2... It is a pretty EFI friendly cam but the overall duration numbers are more than 320deg(!), ie the cam has VERY SLOW RAMP SPEED (=lower vacuum than need be for similar newer cams of similar .050" durations) and the cam is old tech, but it works.

[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited June 01, 2001).]

 

Yeah I am getting the 2030 camshaft. My friend checked out the car with his diagnostic tool, and the computer is running fine. The Holley 502-6 is still throwing too much fuel and the computer trying to compensate the air/fuel mixture and it is simply the lift of the cam I have in that motor!
Jon, I will have the cam next week and hopefully by the end of next week I will be running. I thought other things were fried, but everything else checks out fine with the computer.
I am relieved about that. I'm hoping that IF I get the car done by next week, I will be able to give you the dyno figures. Our club is doing it on the 10th and I am hoping to have it finished before then.
How are things with yours? Are you running now? Is the Holley dumping too much fuel? Mine is running way too rich, but like I said the computer is being tricked by the cam.
-Snowdog

 

FB, thanks for the lobe sep. I knew the other stats but couldn't find that one piece of info. My vacuum is a little on the low side but it isn't too bad.
My car is still sitting, just got the laptop, waiting for the ac adaptor so I can start the darn thing. Hopefully I get the hook up cable soon, ordered that a while ago.

------------------
, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

 

You didn't find any oil-wetted plugs, did you? JP, that is...

 

Looked all over for the fuel adjustment that FastBroker was telling me about but could NOT find it. I am almost 100% certain that it is controlled by the computer.
Is there another adjustment somewhere? I know what my plugs looked like after replacing them, and they were jet black and wet with fuel. They would NOT spark at all.
I'm hoping that my cam will come in tonight or tomorrow. Once the new cam is in, I'll let everyone know how my car runs. Right now it is just a pretty car in the driveway.
-Snowdog

 

It's a roller cam, but I'm using the stock arms and rods . I gotta change those sometime soon. I don't want to go to 1.6 ratio because of the springs, but I do want to make sure I'm getting 1.5. I've heard the stock ones can vary and even be around 1.45. My springs were shimmed so they can handle the .491 exhaust lift. I don't go over 5500 rpm too just to be safe. It's been pulling pretty good lately since I got the chip worked out better. My lobe seperation is 115 so the idle is pretty smooth. I wish it was a little more lopey, but I can deal considering I'm pretty positive the car can do 12's. We'll see.

------------------
88 firebird formula
350 Vortec TBI
214int/224exh, .471int/.491exh
Edelbrock headers
T56 - SIX-speed
open 3.73's
2 1/4 stock catback
I love pissing those LS1's off
My Formula

All your base are belong to us.

 

Snowdog, I speak of the fuel pressure regulator adjustment. Take off the aircleaner. Now, towards the front of the vehicle are the two throttle bores. In the center at the rear is the fuel presure regulator on Holley units. It's about 2" around and a booby/tower looking thing (?) Right smack dab in the middle of the top of it should be an allen screw... It is the adjustment screw for the FPregulator. USE A NICE WRENCH AND MAKE SURE IT IS THE RIGHT SIZE and turn it OUT, counter-clockwise, at least one whole turn, to LOWER the fuel pressure, and try to operate the car. You actually need a scan tool do perform the best fuel ressure change you can but this will help your terribly rich condition quickly and get you driveable... Don't go too lean!

 

Would that be where my post is for the aircleaner? So I remove the post and underneath it should be the fuel pressure regulator?
-Snowdog

 

Snowdog, if you look right above where the fuel lines hook up to the tbi you will see what FastBroker is talking about. It is the round device between the injectors and the rear of the throttle body right above the fuel lines.

Steve

 

No, not where the post is. Where Steve said... Somebody has to be able to post a pix of the TBI unit and put an "arrow" on ir for him. I'm not that computer literate...

[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited June 05, 2001).]

 

I run a Compucam 2050 in my truck 350 and I am not running to rich. I think the 2030 will be way to mild for you. Listen to Fastbroker and adjust that fuel pressure down. My truck ran too rich when I put the Holley TBI on it. I had to drop to 9#'s to get my Summit Rich/Lean O2 sensor guage to read in the middle. It runs great now and gas mileage went up something like 8 mpg. I found that running the big cam causes a slight uneven idle. Not the running too rich problem. I can live with the idle to get a much better rpm range. You will have the same too rich problem if you change cams + you will have lost 20-30hp. Stick with that cam until you get the rich problem solved and then decide about the cam.

 

I agree. I would exhaust all simple measures (FP changes, timing, etc) before performing a cam swap. You may be able to make it run ok...

 

Snowdog, there is a hole plug over the screw that you have to pry out in case you did not know. I pulled my lo3 out starting last Tues and cranked the new engine up on Sun. I have about the same combo that JPrevost and Birmass have. Crate vortec 350TBI with an LT4 stock cam and 1.6 rollers that I had to go into the 305 with the Vortec heads but changed my mind when I came up with the money to get a new L31 crate shortblock from SDPC. I beleive that JP has the 89 caprice cop chip in his and that is what I'm starting with along with the cop tbi unit with I beleive 65lb. injectors. Cranks good, runs good at 1500 to 3000 but havn't been able to get it to have a decent idle for anything. I'm good with the hard parts but my tuning skills need to come up to speed.

 

Have you tried turning down the timing a bit to get it to idle? Does it idle bad during cold or closed loop or both?
I'm going to make some changes to this chip on the advance. Right now the low end and drive quality of the 89 cop car eprom are doing GREAT (just had to adjust torque converter settings). The chip needs to be tuned for WOT, there isn't enough fuel getting to it right away (too much lag). Once I adjust that and advance the timing in the chip I should have better throttle responce and power up top.

------------------
, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

 

Yes, as a matter of fact it is about 10 degrees advanced and wants about 10 more.... If I bring it to where it is supposed to be, it dies easily.
-Snowdog

 

I did not know that Holley puts a plug over the Fuel Pressure adjustment screw on those replacement TBIs. ya' learn something every day... Guess that's why he can't find the allen screw...

 

I guess so, if there is a plug it is covering it. I believe I know exactly where it is, but I am going to double check before I destroy something lol!
-Snowdog

 

JPrevost you were correct. Turning down the base timing corrected my sh** idle and off idle throttle. Thanks for the tip!

 

I had the same problem. Glad my advice finaly helped somebody on here, lol.
Anywho, as a general rule: If our TBI computers aren't spitting out ANY codes and the car doesn't idle etc. It's one of 2 things. Either min idle not set right OR base timing. Those are the two things that the ECM doesn't know.

------------------
, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

 

That cam is pretty damned big, but i dont know if that's the prob.

I ran a 224/234 498/520 cam in my 350 tbi setup.. ran ok with stock 305 chip. Much better after i started burning my own of course...



------------------
Shane Buss 92 Firebird 355, Holley 800 Double Pumper Carb, Vortec 1.94/1.50 Heads (Ported,Polished,Milled .025), 10:1 Comp Ratio, Cam Specs 224/234 498/520, 1.6 Roller Rockers, Hooker Headers, Flowmaster, !Cat, 3.73 Posi, Msd 6A Ignition Cyb. Speedo box, Single Plane Intake
http://users.ev1.net/~sdbuss/index.html

Note all girls on web page are x's, and will be removed when i get more time

WEIAND SUPERCHARGER REMOVED

2001 LS1 Trans AM A4. Bone Stock. 3.23 Rear End