Hi there,

I've had my '92 Camaro since February and up until now it hasn't given me any trouble in the engine department at all (just a whole load of rot!, most of which is now sorted)

Anyway, the other day I was driving into town and it cut out. At first I thought it was due to it being low on fuel, I turned the key and it fired back up so I went straight to the gas station and put some gas in. About 1 mile later it cut out again, this time it would not start, just cranked over and over. Eventually I called for recovery, when the guy turned up he put jump leads on it and it fired up first time. He followed me for a while, got me to pull over and shut it off and try starting it again on it's own, which it did fine.
So he left me to it as couldn't see anything wrong, but shortly after he left it cut out again and wouldn't start so I had to call them to come back out, same thing happened - it started first time with jump leads. This guy said he'd follow me all the way home, on the way it cut out for a 4th time! and this time would not start, even with jump leads, it the end it went home on the back of a truck.

Once back home my mate cleaned my distributor cap and rotor arm up (I've ordered new ones, as well as plugs and plug wires) put them back on, charged the battery for a bit and it started fine. So we thought that was it, just corroded contacts.

I took it out last night and it cut out again!, wouldn't jump start at all and on closer inspection we noticed there was no fuel coming through.

I had a similer problem on a Land Rover Discovery V8 and that turned out to be a fuel pump relay, so I might try that next. But I've also heard that the fuel pumps on these cars are common for failing? Also my haynes manual says the fuel pump is located under the hood, although everything I'm reading says it's in the fuel tank.

I'd like to find out what needs replacing first as the parts companys in the UK charge a ridiculous amount for imported parts. I might just use RockAuto, I've found them excellent...the stuff turns up in 3 days!

Any comments are appreciated

 

the pump relay is under the hood on the passenger side, the pump is in the tank.

 

Cheers, well I've changed the relay and it jump started first time...left it idleing for about 10-15mins and shut it off, started twice after that on it's own so I thought I'd sorted it. But then today I changed the distributor cap and rotor arm and when I come to start it it just kept turning over and over. I left it for a few hours, came back and it started first time and ran for 20mins before I turned it off, started it again no problem, tried once more and it just turned over again was on my own so couldn't check to see if fuel was coming through...I've left it now till tomorrow, it's really p*ssing me off!

 

you could have a short circuit somewhere down the line, check the connections on the relay very carefully, if there's and wiggle room, that could be the prob, after that, start tracing wires, look for loose fittings, and worn down insulationn on the wires.

Best of luck-

Eric

 

Thanx Eric, I'll have a look tomorrow it's dark out now (and cold haha)

Am I right in thinking that if it were the fuel pump itself it'd either work or not work. As it's sometimes working and sometimes not then does it point to something else? I really don't like the idea of having to drop the fuel tank out!

 

forgot to add, when checking the wires, start with the grounds, make sure they are all clean and making good contact

it doesn't sound like a pump issue, more like a ground or trigger issue.

 

Well today I changed the fuel filter, the one that came off looked like it may have been the one that was put on in the factory! It was pretty old and rusty. Didn't get time to check the wires/grounds as it started to rain.

One thing I didn't mention was that when it was running before it seemed to be running a little rough, almost like there wasn't a constant supply of fuel coming through...it'd kinda splutter every couple seconds. I didn't notice it so much after changing the fuel filter so maybe it was a clogged filter?

I guess the only way I'll find out is by taking it for a drive :S

 

That's probably it, I'm supprised I didn't think of that!

Let us know how it goes-

Eric

 

Well I let it run on the drive this evening while I took it off the axle stands. After it had been running awhile it seemed idle a bit funny, the rev counter would drop slighty every few seconds (the gaps seemed to be quite consistant) So I shut it off for a bit and started it again, seemed to run a little better this time, and after 5-10 mins it was still running fairly smooth. But main thing is it hasn't cut out!...(yet)

I'll take it for a drive at some point (on a day I know my friend will be around to recover me if needed haha) and if it does die again I'll do as you suggest and check all connections, is it worth me seeing if there are any fault codes? what kind of code reader should I look for? I know a paper clip can be used but it'd be handy to have a reader (yeah I know I'm lazy)

 

Good luck, Keep us posted!

 

I am having the same symptoms. I was thinking of changing the fuel filter. maybe the relay too. It is running a bit rough as well. I am praying it is not the fuel pump. Such a headache.

 

Had a very similar issue with my old 91 305 TB RS, it ran similar to what have described after a few days of this it ended up being the fuel pump, it finally completely died.

 

I didn't want to hear that Battman haha, looks like a pain to change the pump! especially in the cold and rain. I guess I'll have to top up the tank and leave it running on the drive for an hour or two...don't fancy taking it out and it dying on me again.

 

I had all the same symptoms and it was the fuel pump the entire time. I replaced everything else in hopes that it wasn't. I was in a state of denial until that was the last part to change. I wouldn't go filling up the tank all the way just yet in case you do need to drop it. It would be a good idea to have minimal fuel in the tank. Checking the car for codes would be a good idea too.

Mine would run fine when cold and I'd take it for a drive. Then, sometimes after the pump was warm it would die while driving. Also, it would run fine, warm up and all. 5 minute drive to the store and I'd come out to find it wouldn't start until it cooled down. A good way to tell is when i turns over and doesn't start spray some starting fluid in the tbi. If it tries to start you are not getting fuel and its probably the pump.

 

Well, I've finally admitted that maybe it's the fuel pump thats gone. My new pump/strainer turned up today from Rockauto so I'll have a go at making a start tomorrow.

How big a job is it? I know you have to remove the back section of the exhaust and drop the axle? I don't have much experience working on cars but I'm gonna give it a try armed with my Haynes manual haha...my friend said I can call him if I get stuck too (he wants to cut through the floor to get to the tank though, not keen on that idea myself)

Thanx for your help and advice guys, I'm looking forward to having it back on the road. Might start it up with out the pipes on to see how loud it is

 

I haven't changed one myself, but I hope you don't have a full tank of gas.

 

Hehe, luckily it's pretty much empty at the moment. In fact it's so empty I may have to walk to the gas station once it's fixed to fill a can up to bring back...it probably won't make it on it's own

 

It took me and a buddy two days on a weekend working about 4 hours each day. Really, you should drop the tank and not cut the hole. Even after you cut the hole (hopefully the the right place) there are 4 fuel lines you will have to cut and somehow put back together which would be no fun task. I found some 30 step tutorial on doing it the right way around here somewhere. I printed that out and went step by step then installed the walbro 255. I'll see if I can dig up that post. It's really not too bad once you get going on it.

 

Here is a link to that thread with all the steps.


https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...p-not-bad.html

 

Thanx bluers91, on Saturday I began getting the tank out (decided to do it the proper way) but got stuck on the very last bolt for the track bar brace...it was rusted solid. So Sunday my mate came down tried to heat it up but it still didn't want to know, in the end we started to saw it off and it eventually came off. Continued to get the tank out, took alot of persuasion but it come out eventually.

Have changed the pump, strainer and wiring harness also had to repair one of the pipes. But then it got dark and wet so had to leave it. Will hopefully put it all back together this Saturday and see if it's cured!

Thanx for all your help and advice guys, this forum is by far the most helpfull and friendly car owners forum I've ever come across

 

I had the EXACT same problem with a '92 RS. When I would start it up cold, it would be choppy, but still run. Once I got to the video store, made my selection, and went outside, it wouldn't start up for an hour or so.
I checked the fuel pressure while it was running one time, and it was only making about 6 PSI, so I changed it for a fuel pump out of a Chevy Pickup with a Vortec engine (the old Vortec engines). THe pump fit right in, but delivers more pressure. Now it pegs the needle on a 15 psi gauge.
Once I changed the fuel pump, the problem was gone.
I recommend that you upgrade the fuel pump while you have it out.
It's not a fun job, but you wont be having any fun with a car that won't run.

 

Thanx dixiebandit69, I'll have to remember the upgrade if there is a next time as I've already installed a new pump into the tank, should be putting it all back together tomorrow *fingers crossed* (Hopefully there won't be a next time though!)

 

If you still have the tank out and replaced it with the stock one I would buy a high flow pump and do it right now so there is no next time!!

 

And the plot thickens...

Saturday I put everything back together filled it with 5 litres of gas and it started up first time. I sat there idling nicely for about 5 to 10 minutes (It was running smoothly and not spluttering like before) but then it just shut off on it's own. My friend assumed that it was out of gas and with the way the car was jacked up maybe any fuel that was in the tank was out of reach of the pump.

Anyway ended up putting another 5 litres in and quickly driving it up to the gas station where I decided to fill the tank up completely (from now on I'll top it up from 1/4 of a tank rather than almost empty). So I decided I drive it the the bar that night as it seemed to run smoothly, It made it all the way there without any problems (7 miles). Then on the way home I got about 5 miles home and stoped for my friend to get food, while she was getting served I sat outside with the engine running but after about 5mins it just cut out, but it started straight away and I was able to get home.

Tonight I drove it about 2 or 3 miles and as I pulled up to a red light and the revs dropped it just cut out again (as I put it in neutral) and then would not start, did the same thing as before, just cranked over and over. In the end had to push it into a side road where I got my brother to try and start it while I looked for fuel coming through the injectors...and there was none, even though I could hear the fuel pump prime.
Went to the shops while I waited for my friend to come tow me home, when he arrived a suggested trying to jump start it...It started first time, and idling for awhile, but as I put it into drive the revs dropped and it cut out again. We jumped it again and it started first time, and this time it stayed running and I was able to get it home.

So, so far I've changed the fuel pump itself, the fuel pump wiring harness, the fuel pump strainer, the fuel pump filter and the fuel pump relay. What is left?

Another thing, maybe nothing, but after it was jump started from a flat battery the alarm would beep while the car was running and driving, kinda like one beep/blip every second or so. It has a MOSS alarm, I don't know if it's factory issue or aftermarket.

My friends brother asked me if i've checked the injectors for blockages, which I have not, will do that next (maybe should have do this before changing the pump, oh well) Also my friend asked if I have a strainer before the injectors...I've not idea.

Any help would be much appreciated, I'm starting to get very p*ssed off with this car!

 

i had the same problem in my 92 rs camaro i replaced the spark sensor on the bottom of the block on right side and the vacuum motor on the air cleaner assembly been running good so far done 2 months ago

 

Hmm...well I'll try the paper clip thingy and see if there are any fault codes, there can't be many things left to change!

 

have you checked the oil pressure switch on the side of the block? also, did you ever check or replace the relay? when it dies, does it always take about the same amount of time? also, it does just stop right? not slowly lose power and die?

 

Nope I've not checked that yet. I changed the fuel pump relay, that was the first thing I changed.

No, the one time it died at the top of my road and another time it made it all the way to town and back (14 miles) and then the other day it made about 2 miles and then died. And yes, it just cuts out straight away...but it only usually cuts out when idling or when i've just stopped and the rpm's drop.

 

Well I've just been outside and tried the paper clip method...it came back with a code 53 which according to my Haynes manaul is one of two things depending upon whether your car is fuel injected or carbs. Does their interpretation of fuel injected cover the TBI as well as the TPI?

They say it is;

Carb models - EGR Control (Leaking, restricted or improperly routed vacuum line; EGR valve stuck or leaking; poor electrical connection, open or short in circuit; defective EGR solenoid; defective ECM)

Fuel Inj. models - System over voltage (Charging system problem.)

Also after checking for codes I removed the paper clip and attempted to start the car. I heard the fuel pump prime but when I turned the key I got nothing, not even the usual "click" from the starter. Battery has charge in it as the power doors, winders and interior lights all work fine.

 

Sometimes those codes in the book can be misleading. They can also mean other things, but at least its a start.

Check the battery with a volt meter while the car is both off and on and see what you get. Also, check that your connections & cables are all clean & tight to the battery, starter, and alternator. Maybe its your alternator acting up?

If you can get the car to start, loosen a battery cable and pull it off while the car is running. See if they car stays running (with alternator power) or if it dies. If it dies, its probably a bad alternator.

 

a code 53 also could be the vehicle anti theft [ pass key ] circuit [5.0 tbi ]

 

If it is VATS you should also get the red Security light on the dash when you try to turn it over with the key.

 

not if it is an intermitten problem and providing the light still works

 

vats doesn't prevent the car from running, just disables the start circuit.

Whats the condition of the rest of the engine?

Ignition system, vacuum lines, compression, spark plugs.

also, have you checked to make sure all of your electrical connections are good?

 

Hey guys, well today it decided it was going to start for some reason so I've just come in from trying what you suggested with the battery, I disconnected the negative while the engine was running and it stayed running...well for 5mins anyway, then it cut out on it's own again. I'll have to wait till i can borrow a volt meter off a friend to check volts.

While it was running there was a squeking noise coming from the back of the engine (so not a belt) it sounded like maybe it was coming from near the inlet manifold or distributor cap. Also the rev counter keeps jumping while idling, and after a few mins the engine started to stutter a little.

The engine itself has never given me much trouble. The only one thing is that it has always had an issue when starting where you'd turn the key and it'd just click, I just assumed maybe it was a sticky starter and I was gonna change it when I had chance as it'd always start after 3 or 4 turns.

I took a short video on my phone while I was out there, you can hear the squeking and you can also see the rev counter jumping on it's own. I've put it on Youtube - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbSsfZAOXps

I'll ask my mate about checking electric connections, I don't know where to begin!

 

Put a timing light on it.
Ignition module failure, especially a heat related intermittent, will cause ALL of the problems you've described.
If it's ignition, the light will stop flashing totally. No ignition pulses, no fuel, 'cause the ECM thinks the engine is not turning at all.

 

i just read this whole thread wondering why no one said the, ignition control module, plus that squeaking noise you hear is probably from a vacum leak at the EGR, it will cause poor idle, the ICM will cause the spark to stop once it gets hot, and usually won't start untill it's cooled off again

 

Hi guys, Well I gave a few things a try over the last 2 days (gave it a break over xmas). First thing I did was remove the EGR valve and my mate made me a nice blanking plate since our emissions laws are not as strict as yours, eventually most the emissions stuff will go in the bin. So that got rid of that squeaking noise, I also removed the IAC valve and cleaned it out with Carb cleaner and made a new gasket for it.

Car started and seemed to run better than before, there was a more constant flow of fuel coming from the injectors where as before it seemed to be pulsing a little. But after a few minutes when it had warmed up it started to splutter again and then went back to running fine. When it splutters both injectors are doing the same thing, so I guess that would rule out a faulty injector? I was about to take it a spin up the road, but had to shut it off to go and lock the house up cos the house key was on the same bunch as the ignition, but then the car wouldn't start again, just turned over.

My mate asked me to find out if the ICM controls the fuel/injectors in any way? I seem to remember when it had cut out once before and no fuel was coming through my mate did check for a spark using a new spark plug and there was a spark.

Also does anyone know if I can get hold of a Dealer manual on CD? my mate said these are usually alot more detailed than Haynes/Chiltons.

I'm just trying to rule everything out before ordering a new ICM as I would have to get this from the US and shipping ain't cheap! But from what you guys have said, I may have to get one.

Thanx guys!

 

In EVERY way !!
No ignition pulses ALWAYS means the engine is not turning, ( as far as the ECM is concerned ) so therefore it needs no fuel. Shut off the injectors.
Fuel is ONLY supplied when an ignition pulse is received from the ignition module, and at NO other time.
If you have no ignition pulses, you have NOTHING.
I say again, PUT A TIMING LIGHT ON IT and quit wasting your time until you KNOW that ignition is working first, last, and everything between, at ALL times, ESPECIALLY when it won't start, or stumbles.

 

Ok, last weekend I replaced the ICM module (old one was pretty corroded) it started up and ran fine. I've driven it about 4 or 5 times (journeys over 5 miles) and it has been fine. Today I took it on a longer drive to a mall about 16 miles away, decided to go there on the highway and come back on smaller roads. On the way while on the highway the Service Engine Soon light came on and stayed on untill I got there. Also when I pulled up at a junction the engine spluttered as if it was going to cut out, but didn't.

When I got back to the car it started fine and the SES light was not on. On the way home when I pulled up to a junction the car cut out right as the rpm's dropped, but it started up first turn of the key and got home fine.

When I got home I checked for fault codes, this time it was #32 - EGR System. I'm guessing this is due to the fact that I've blanked off the EGR valve, so that would explain for SES light coming on.

All week I've been thinking that it's cured and that it was the ICM at fault, but now it seems to be acting up again. During the week it was very cold so the engine rarely got anywhere near 220, but thanx to last nights rain all the snow has gone and it's a little warmer, but the engine was at 220 a few times on the way home today so I don't know if it's got anything to do with it.

 

the sputtering problem you mentioned is the EGR, mine idled and died all the time untill i replaced the egr, i think the ECM turns the fan on around 220, so thasts normal, unless it stays that hot once warmed up, there shouldn't be a problem, get a new egr valve and maybe a tuneup and it shoiuld run/idle great.
was the temp 220 while drivinmg on the highway, if so i would assume something is wrong with your cooling system, prbably missing the air damn underneather the radiator support, is it there? if so you may have a stuck thermostat....

i plan on buying and keeping a spare ICM module in the car, mine seem to only last 2-3 years at a time next time it goes out i'll already have the replacement on hand.....