Hello Everyone,

I haven't been around the motor crowd lately.

Finished up college and was left really broke.

Well now that things have picked up and I am employed, I am looking to build up the truck (Regular Cab Short bed 91' C1500). It has a mild 355(Cam/TBI mods/Headers/Bolt ons Etc.)

I have been looking into building it up. Heads, supercharger, stall, paint job, 18x9,18x12.

Not sure how long its gonna take but I wanna do it right the first time.

Anyhow, I want to see what some of the experienced have to say about building these motors up with AFR heads and superchargers.

I had the motor built in 04 with new components, a new crank, cam (212/218/112lsa/.449/.456-XE256H-12)

I am willing to drop the cash on the heads and wanted bolt on/Turn key application.

I would like to be able to use it on the weekends (company truck during the week), and some weekends to see the family(330 miles away).

Kind of a weekend cruiser/show truck.

I have always wanted an old school screamer SBC built up.

I was going to sell the truck and buy an 06' GTO but plans have changed slightly.

If anyone has any experience with the AFR 195cc/64cc/65cc or the 180cc/64cc/65cc heads it would be greatly appreacited.


Anyways,

I know....... fuel and air. With the potential of purchasing a 2'' throttle body as well as me owning an EBL flash, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and future 02 wide band, I should be good to go.


So i have come to the conclusion that I want to go with the AFR heads because of bolt on, upgrade ability, and all out performance of these heads.

I then came across either 195cc or 180cc.

I understand that there is a Competition edition for both sizes.

I want to stick with a 65cc combustion chamber to keep my velocity high considering I am only going to drive the truck on the weekends (I now have a company truck) and on the highway to see the family (330 miles away).

Questions:

1. Can I use my hydraulic flat tappet cam with these heads?
2. Are the flow numbers the same for the 195cc competition heads (65 or 75cc combustion chambers)? I only see one set of flow numbers for the competition series.
3. With 195cc heads running 64cc exhaust ports, and 65cc combustion chambers, would it be too much. Id like to have a screamer and build the truck in a garage for a few years.

Any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


I look forward to hearing the gear heads and more experienced engine builders.

Heres a quick pic of the truck for the heck of it.



Thank you.

Ulysses

 

For street use I will suggest the 180cc. My Edelbrock RPMs are 175cc I recall and 64 cc giving me 10.x/1 compression with stock 350 block. If you want 195 cc then there is a tradeoff in drivability.

 

Thank you for your input. I really appreciate it.

I am in between the two.

I like the idea of being able to upgrade later. If I spend the money, I dont want to ever have to buy heads again for a SBC, sort of speak. Obviously if I go with another vehicle big block or just crazy HP I would need an upgrade.

Id like to start small but have the ability to upgrade.

Anyone know what it takes to build a roller motor out of a TBI block?

Thanks

 

If your going to upgrade later then go with the 195's. If your going to supercharge it right away then theres no way I would do the 180's. I put the Brodix IK200's on mine instead of the 180's but your truck weighs alot more then my car. Either way it's hard to beat the AFR's.

Mark.

 

Yeah those are my thoughts as well.

I would like to run the 180 first and then swap but I dont really have that option. lol.

Thanks for the input.

 

I have 180's. They are a nice head, but I wish I went with the 195s so my motor would have more room to grow.

 

The conversion of the block to a roller is a bit costly. See Summit. Might be a better thought to use a roller block. Edel E-Tec heads are an excellent choice as well. I believe they come in 2 or 3 sizes.

 

The TBI block might have undrilled bosses in the lifter valley for the stock-type lifter retainer.

 

What is this in reference to?

Thanks for the comments.

Any other thoughts are encouraged.

Ulysses

 

SOME non-roller-cam one-piece rear main seal blocks have counterbored lifter bores. The block appears that it will swallow OEM-style hydraulic roller lifters, but the oil band of the lifter is exposed to air at high lift, creating a massive internal oil leak and therefore low oil pressure.

If the lifter bores aren't counterbored, you should be able to drill and tap the block in four places, if needed, for the "spider" retainer, and use OEM roller-cam hardware. There is no "conversion cost" beyond buying all the roller-cam-related bits and pieces, and MAYBE drilling and tapping four holes.

The OEM camshaft retainer at the front of the block can have either of two different part numbers due to GM changing the bolt spacing for the retainer. Far as I know, the earlier engines used a wider bolt spacing for the cam retainer, later engines went to the SAME retainer as the Big Block, which has a narrower bolt spacing. Just buy the retainer that fits the bolt pattern on the block. If you use this type of cam retainer (either bolt spacing), you'll need a matching timing chain and cam gear.

No roller cam??? I will NEVER AGAIN buy a flat-tappet camshaft that hasn't been nitrided for hardness. Lunati charged about $110 for the nitriding, and it's worth every penny.

 

Ulysses,

I would run some AFR 195cc Eliminator heads, edelbrock victor jr 2bbl single plane intake, 1.6:1 full roller rockers, and upgrade the cam to something to take advantage of the increased RPM potential. Add in a nice higher stall torque converter and a shift point correction kit to raise the wide open throttle shift points in drive. You could easily make over 450 HP with a broad torque curve if you work the right combination. I loved my Doug Thorley Tri-Ys as well.

 

Fast,

Are you saying that I could make 450hp with a Flat tappet cam swap, AFR 195s, Intake swap, and 1.6s?

I was assuming that I would need to swap out to roller if I really wanted to put some HP down but I dont know if I wanna spend that kind of cash.

Thanks

Ulysses

 

I have not touched a flat cam in some time now. That being said if you block is not provisioned, I would step up to an aftermarket hydraulic roller setup. You can get the complete conversion setup for cheaper than most might suspect as complete kits now.

But a 10.5:1 350 running 93 octane can make over 425 HP if you set up everything right. A 350 with vortec heads, 9.5:1 compression and a LT4 hotcam made 401 HP in testing and 428 HP with more cam. Add in the aftermarket higher flowing heads and you will be at 450 HP with relative ease. TBI tuning will be required and an EBL a near necessity.

If you want to stay with a non-roller setup. Look at the old Hotrod Junkyard Jewel build from the late 90s. They took a mid 70s smogger 350, added a comp 268 cam, vortec heads, edelbrock victor jr intake and made nearly 400 HP at the flywheel from a high mileage, low compression, smog 350 with a mild cam. The XE274 cam would have bumped the power up a solid 15-20 over the 268. The AFR heads flow much more than stock vortecs as well.

 

Are you saying that even if my block will allow it or not, I can still get a kit to make it work?

What kind of machining would i need to have done if the block doesn't have the provisions for it.

 

Bringing this post back from the grave.

I was debating on selling the truck but I might be back in the motor soon.

Any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

However,

I am thinking about throwing a set of AFR 195's soon to wake up this motor.

I was debating on building the motor and changing over to roller motor but I dont think it will be worth it to me. I wont really be doing any serious drag strip time but just to have a fast truck really. I dont drive it that often but on the weekends and would like to eventually build it the way I want to but it seems that everytime I try to something else pops up.

Thanks all

Ulysses

 

Fast355's post (post #13) above pretty much covered it. Retrofit rollers lifters are a "bolt in". They just cost more than the OEM roller lifters. I am running roller lifters and I don't drag race.