how much power can be made with a 305????? if you know a website on it please post it... i would really like to make a fast 305... why??? i dont know.! it just seems like know one does it....

 

There seems to be a lot of people that want to do that.

My question is, why would you want to put all that money in a 305 to make it fast when you can do the same thing to a 350 and it will be even faster?

 

i know .. but it seems to be a good idea.... same thing with mustangs... ihave a friend who built a 351 instead of a 302 and its an animal... no replacement for displacement...

 

http://www.inter-scape.com/ray/305buildup.htm

 

Nope theres hardly anyone who does it, and I found that too so I did mine up a bit. I figure its already there and I dont need huge power levels to satisfy myself.

 

Yea these people that keep pushing 350s forget that a new engine cost A LOT and is A LOT of work to get in. By gradually fixing up my 305 it is not hurting my wallet too much. And who knows maybe down the road if I have some money I will throw in a 350. As of right now it is a lot more practical and more into reality to just slowly fix up my 305.

 

See...I don't see how it is anymore work...that is if your planning on doing it right.

If you pull your worn 305 out and change the cams etc.. to build it for speed ideally you need to get some machine work done to the heads and block anyway. The same thing goes for a 350. You can find good 350 blocks for as low as 50.00. Most likely you would have the 305 bored out, thus you would need new pistons, rings, etc. The same goes for the 350. I could go on, but you get my point.

As for getting it in...explain to me exactly what you mean that it is A LOT of work to get it in. I don't see how it would differ from a 305.

Now..if the only mod your talking about is a K&N Filter and chrome valve covers..then I guess it would be a waste..

 

Well, theres a couple in the 9's if you take a look around. That fast enough for you?

Better get out your checkbook though. Or rob a bank instead.

 

One other plus to a 305 is that you are feeding 45 fewer inches on a daily basis

 

Why don't you just leave this post!
You are not helping anybody here, If he/she wants a 350 they will get one. Till then if you have nothing good to say about spicing up a 305, LEAVE!

 

for 2,000 you can get a 305 tpi into a mid 13 to low 13s

 

step 1, remove 305, insert into nearest dumpster, pond, or throw off bridge, step 2, get 327 or bigger engine. step 3 install, step 4 haul ***! really putting alot of money in a 305 is a big waste of money for very minimal results. with how cheap and easy 350's are there really is no reason not to build one.

 

Maybe some people would just like to see what they can do with a 305. Im in full support of he/she, seeing as how Im doing the same thing with a 305. I have a 305 and bought another to replace it. It may be stupid to you but its a fun project for me!!

Well as soon as I get my car to start 100% of the time

 

cheapest way to do things is to work with what you have.

even if he plans to pull the 305 and completley rebuild it, yes it would be easier to use a 350, but the 350 block isnt free, yeah they're not too expensive, but the few hundred you spend on a block could be spent elsewhere.

If moneys doesnt matter use a 350, if you on a tight budget use what you have.

 

I have to say that you have not been reading the previous posts in this thread.

The guy WANTS to fix his 305 up.

If you KNEW that and still posted what you did, that makes you a TROLL! :nono:

Putting money into a good running 305 that is already in the car is NOT "a big waste of money," as you so illogically assert. 300 hp is easily achievable with headers, heads, intake and cam--ALL of which can be tranferred over to a 350 if that is what he wants to do later.

 

It all comes down to goals. If you have a good runnning 305, and you're only trying to run ~13s then by all means stick with the 305.

If you're talking about trying to do a ***** to the wall all out build on a 305, then you're just trying to **** money away by building an inherently flawed and more expensive engine (yes flawed, the 305s small bore will always be a serious handicap to making power)

Basically, if you're into an engine swap, then the 350 is the smarter and cheaper route. If you're just trying to have fun and learn and not go too nuts, then the 305 is fine.

The reason you guys are all fighting is because you are all talking about different end goals. The 350 crowd assumes that he means he wants to build some fire breathing 305, which doens;t make sense. The 305 crowd in here though seems more like the 'wow you run 14s' kind of crowd, in which case of course a 350 is overkill when you have a running 305.

 

I just replaced my L03 with another brand new L03. The original had over 178,000 miles. The new one has 0 miles. The main reason I stick with the 305 is because I want the car to be as original as possible. I see value in having the car end up just like it rolled off of the showroom floor. It will be at that point some day. The 305 has plent of power for me. I am not looking at getting into the 13's with this thing. Not to mention, gas is expensive enough using this car as my daily driver (30 miles each way in Atlanta traffic). I can't imagine the cost of running a full blown 350 back and forth to work. I may add a few mod's but very few. To some people, myself included, the 305 is good enough. I say enjoy what you have. Not what others think you should.

 

I myself have a 305 TBI. I'm looking to have 300 hp and 350 ft-lbs tq.
I am the kind of person that likes to have everything. I want excelent gas mileage. By the way my engine has 126,000 miles on it, 19 mpg city and 29 on the interstate! I'm looking to retain my gas milage, smog equipment, reliability, and drive ability. I intend to achieve these power levels with:
current 305
heads
cam
intake manifold
SLP headers
3" mandrel cat back
larger radiator
ultimate TBI 1&2
upgraded fuel system
Jacobs Ignition
all new internals
internal balancing (b/c I want to)

 

Hey, those are fine intentions. But if your goal is to drive a stock TBI car, then your goal is not to make as much power as possible, which was the original question. I was just explaining that if you are trying to go fast, then throwing a lot of money at a 305 is just plain stupid. If you're just trying to run ~ 13s then sticking with what you have will work. But if you're just trying to get to work, then who cares what the hell is under the hood.

 

:rockon: :rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

 

This fight comes up a whole lot around here... I own and love my own 305, but you have to realize that it won't last forever and when it gives you might want to upgrade a bit... 327, 350, 383, etc... So the best thing I can see to do is to do mods to the 305 and the car that are free, cheap, or if expensive will enhance the effects of a larger displacement motor... these things include...

Headers
Free flowing Cat
cat back exhaust
steeper gears (3.23, 3.42, or 3.73s with posi)
C-clip eliminators
4 wheel disk brakes
aluminum driveshaft
PROM tuning
LCAs and LCA relocation brackets
subframe connectors
polyurethane bushings
rebuilt/stouter tranny
removal of smog pump
relocation of the battery to the rear
Ultimate TBI mods or siamesing the TPI runners
aftermarket (lighter) radiator
aluminum water pump
adding a supercharger or NOS

The 305 can be made fast (just talk to Tim and several of the other guys that know you can break into the high 13s on a TBI 305 with only a few mods)... and I hate the "forget the 305, put a 350 in" crowd. For most of us that use our cars as daily drivers there is somewhat of an advantage to having less cubic inches. Although I am power hungry and would kill to have a supercharged 383 stroker right now, it's just not practical. The rest of the car is not set up to do that yet and (more importantly) I don't have the money yet. It is more economically sound to do stuff to make the car as a whole faster (and perhaps ready for an engine swap) than to just drop a bigger engine in there. It may not even give you the results you want if you haven't already done some of these things (traction is everything). So be happy with the 305 and make the best of it that you can. You will be happy with these mods if you do, one day, decide that more cubes is the answer.

 

There has been alot of discussion around this subject lately, and personally I feel that if a person wants to invest time and money into theyre car then they should be able to and to have the help of everyone else on the board that has any helpfull advice. In my case I bought a replacement motor (305) before I found this site and really had no knowledge about any other options, since I already have alot of money tied up in this one it is not an option to just pull it out and dump it into a lake or throw it away. right now my only option is to build up the motor I already have.

In hind site, if I knew then what I know now, I would have put a stroked 350 in it and built it up. but, as they say, hind site is 20/20.

I would like to thank everyone who has helped me with getting my motor straight and all the advice yall have given me.

 

EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED TO ME...........ITS NOT EVEN IN THE CAR YET!!!!!!!!!!! ANYONE WANT TO BUY A 305???

 

I look at it this way. My 305 is my first engine. I'm on a tight budget, and am wanting to learn, and enjoy my car while I save up for a bigger engine down the road, as well as the nedded drivetrain and suspension mods to contain the 450 horsepower I am seeking later on.

If I get 200 horse from this 305, great It's something that I will have built myself with the help of friends. I'll even run it down the strip a few times, just to see what I get out of it.

 

heres what you do fix up the 305 and then when people ask whats under the hood say "a mild 350" then they wont make fun of you anymore JK i know of many people that do that...some guy with a fake iroc said that so i said lets race them...needless to say i smoked him...i knew the minute he opened the hood it was a stock lg4...

 

Proof? Real stuff only, please.

 

He has proof of a 14.2 with the peanut cam, but there are no solid high 13 305 TBI cars right now.

 

jbenge, DAIGS1985, red89rs, camaroracer1992, Tobe2wild, cheviroc87, Rick89IROC, and TPIterror are all running from 13.0 to 14.0 on 1/4 mile times. Granted, some have outrageous mods, while others have realtively few, some are TPI, hell, some are carbed... but ALL have 305 cubic inches! With an LT1 cam, S/R Tourqer heads, full exhaust job, tubular LCAs, LCA relocation brackets, some good drag slicks, nice gears with posi, and other miscilaneous free and cheap mods... I see no reason why someone couldn't get a 13.9. Most people just add horsepower and torque and then wonder why their times don't get that much better. It's all about TRACTION. Even if it were impossible to break into the 13s with a light to moderatly modded TBI 305 (which it isn't), you would still have to do many of the modifications I suggested to get the full effect of a new, larger cubic inch, engine on your E.T.!!! Dropping in even as little as 330 horses isn't gonna do you much good if all that happens is you sit there and smoke the tires (or A tire if you don't have posi).

 

Yadda, yadda, yadda...

jbenge - carbed, no ecm. 13.5's
DAIGS1985 - carbed, no times I can find.
red89rs - 2 posts? Unknown induction and ET.
camaroracer1992 - Nitrous. 13.1's. 125 shot. 15.1 off the baby bottle (Or is it 14.9? He cant seem to keep his story straight). 'Nuff said.
Tobe2wild - Again, no ET's that I see. He has an 84, so its probably carbed anyway.
cheviroc87 - And yet another carbed car.
Rick89IROC - TPI 13.9's, heads, cam, runners, headers, converter, gear... whats left?
TPIterror - TPI... isnt in the 13's anyway.


I dunno man. Only one I can confirm as a TBI car, might be one other of those you posted that is TBI, but he has no ET I can see. Failing to see your proof of TBI's running 13's with little mods aside of juicing it to death which anyone can do. You can try again if you'd like, but somehow I kinda doubt you are gonna find what youre looking for.

 

You also fail to see the original intent of my original post... dropping in a 350 is not always the answer. I suppose I'm gonna have to do it myself (13.9 in a TBI 305) before you will take my word for it and that's what I hope to achieve before the end of this summer. Regardless of what you think about that, you can't totally ignore ALL of the good points I have made. I am trying to think about the long haul here. Most of us don't have the money to do something like this overnight and, as is in my case, probably won't have the money to do a complete engine swap until the 305 sees 175K+ miles on it... nor would I just throw out a motor that runs perfectly fine. The claim that I made is a VERY tough one, but not out of this world. Several people on the TBI board can back me up on this. I am not just some bench racer that goes about making wild claims that are unrealistic goals for someone to set. If all goes right, I will hit 13.9 this summer and I will make sure to tell you ALL about it!

 

The point we're all trying to make thoigh is that it just is not cost effective to try to go fast with TBI. Once you get a TBI car near the low 14s, they just don't seem to want to go any faster no matter what you have done to it, or what kind of tuning you do. A mid-high13 second TBI car doesn't impress me if it's got a bunch of work in it, and for good reason, my stock heavy convertible is almost in the 13s with practically nothing done to it. I realize TBI comes crippled from the factory with the worst heads and cam, but once you swap those out, it damn well better run like it has heads/cam

 

Don't knock it, 'til you try it:nono:

The ones that are out there saying bigger is better just lack vision.....case in point..

1.) 3.8L in GTP + $100 pulley = 13.x timeslip

I also give support to those w/ the 6 banger camaros out there who are building those up. Not everyone is trying to create a rocket for 1/4 mile times. And even more of us aren't towing our cars in trailers to the strip, because we value funtion.

Point #2

Money is often the biggest issue when doing this. Yes, it will cost less to build a 350 to comparable hp 305 with a decent amount of cash in it, but it is all a matter of what you can afford at the time. That would be like ripping someone for not getting the 24 month loan as opposed to the 48 month loan, because they'll save more $$ overall with the 24 monther.

 

Yea, I know all about the 'claim' and you dont need anyone else without timeslips to back it up. If thats what you are going for though, great! I'd like to see it happen. Better start by gutting your car though, youre gonna need it.

BTW, Tim isnt going to help you. He ran a 14.2, which again... isnt 13's. Too bad he never tried anymore to get what he had into the 13's.

While I am at it, you can easily get a 305TPI into the 12's with minor mods. And I, unlike you, have proof.

 

So whats your point. Going fast costs money. If you can't afford a 350 swap, you also won't be able to afford to make a 305 fast anyway, so why even join the discussion.

I think people are very much confusing issues, and commenting on topics they have no business discussing. So...

- If you're trying to BUILD a fast engine, then trying to BUILD a 305 is stupid. If you can;t afford to build a 350, you also can't afford to build a 305, period. In other words, you're just wasting everybody's time arguing over something that will only exist in your dreams anyway.

- If you're just trying to work with what you have (as in not swapping engines) and your goals aren't too lofty, then sure a 305 can be decent.

- Last i checked, every TBI combo i have ever seen runs significantly slower than the combination of parts would suggest. Unless you have timeslips to talk about, just STFU. We are sick of hearing about 'well i'm going to do this' or, ' my uncle's dad's brother's cousin had a TBI car that ran 13s once' If you want to try to build a fast TBI combo, be our guest, we'd love to be proved wrong. But thats just it, PROVE us wrong, or go home. I'm doing as much, i've set out to run 13s in a stock 305 TPI powered heavy convertible. And you know what, i'm only a day of TnT away from my goal.

I know this isnt my board, but please, let's focus this discussion or it might as well be closed. I just gave the 3 major angles that the experienced / focussed people in this thread are working from, IMO if you want to participate you should make sure you are clearly addressing one of them or else you're jst posting to hear yourself talk.

The original poster kind of invited this confusion. He just said he wanted a fast 305. Define 'fast'. For all we know he'd cut off an arm to run low 14s, in which case, debating 350 vs. 305 is stupid. Then again, he might be trying to build an 11 second car, in which case the 305 is a poor choice. Thats why i always try to get people to spell out goals and budgets on my board, b/c i am tired of arguments over dreams. Keep things concrete so that there CAN be a right answer.

 

Here come the excuses.....

The reason the carb 305 guys are in the 13's is because they dont have a MAP sensor. Everytime you do a mod, the MAP sensor cant handle it; it seems. Well even the CC Q's can take tons of mods without going wacko and thats why theres more 13 second carb cars than TBI's. Most people arent PROM specialists, so it makes it very hard.

I've personally set out to run low 14's in the 1/4 mile with a lighter than most convertible. And I'm almost positive the 305 can take me there.

 

The last part of that is exactly what i'm talking about. Your goal is something that any carbed or TPI thirdgen 305 would have no problem making with very little work. You're running heads/cam to TRY to get there.
I just don't understand how some of you TBI guys can keep a positive attitude when you're faced with odds like that.

 

It's called VISION....anybody can get a 350 into the 13 second range, but it takes creativity to get a 305 TBI there.

OK now, let's step down from our high horse and breath a little. So it's obvious you don't fully understand my economic point seeing how you quoted me and didn't respond directly to it. In all likelyhood this man already has a 305(hasn't clarified everything for us), so the chances are he wants to work with what he has and not drop $1,000 into getting another block for the sake of going "fast" whatever you constitute what fast is.

...and never once did I claim to know everything there is, but since the almighty Ed Maher believes he does I'll refer any questions people ask to you. Is that o.k. or are you too busy running the world??

 

I did directly address you when i said: "So whats your point. Going fast costs money. If you can't afford a 350 swap, you also won't be able to afford to make a 305 fast anyway, so why even join the discussion. "...and then qualifying that with it depends on goals, blah blah blah. If you even bothered to read and understand my post you'd see that i'm going to run a STOCK 305 into the 13s in the heaviest thirdgen off the line. But i don't even consider that 'fast' at all considering most stock LT1s run 13.8s or better, and LS1s are even worse. Maybe he was thinking of dumping mega bucks into a 305 build. Wouldn't you feel good for helping him build a dud? I'm trying to help him and others see the big picture because I and many others HAVE been there before and we're trying to help. I'm sorry if you're too thin skinnned to read my opinion and understand it rather than lash out because you don't have an open mind.
It's not about knowing everything, it's about knowing when to shut up.

 

Guys please Cant we all just get along.........

 

I see White85ta hasn't even been back since he replied to the first response. Hmmmm...

We've seen a lot of answers here, but they are for many, many different questions, not the one originally asked. Of course, the one originally asked was too open ended, so that invites this type of exchange.

The "how much power from 305" has been brought up many times. The part that's typically left out is what else you intend to be able to do with it (emissions, anyone?), or if you just want to make a bunch of power in a different way. Sorry, but "different" ain't worth much (being that I'm the 7th of 9 children, having grown up in a small rural town, and by nature a non-conformist, everyone should take that statement to heart).

If you have a 305 in good shape, I maintain that you can go faster bolting stuff on to it for less than putting in a 350 will cost you. It's when you start wanting even more speed that you'll lose out. I spent right at $2200 for the mods in my sig, and MAY have been able to get a 350 rebuilt and heads ported for the money I spent, but only with rare finds or sweetheart deals. Take one piece away from the 350 in order to keep the cost down (like headers, or cam, or converter), and a 350 would be slower than I am now. I can't back that up with time slips, because I only wanted to do this once, but there's enough data out there to back that up. Oh, I'm assuming emissions legality, too. If I do decide to go faster some day, everything I've spent will transfer to a 350 shortblock (except gaskets), including the heads if I use dished pistons.

If you have to do machine work on the block or replace pistons on a 305, then you're already in the territory of spending too much money to justify continuing - go get yourself a 350 block and do the work on it instead. I've said that for at least a year, because that's what my research taught me way back then. Same goes for stroking a 305 (golly, why didn't anyone bring THAT up?).

Now, can we all just get along?

 

Five7,
Let me be the first to applaud you for showing reason in a pool of hysterical rhetoric.
I must agree that, if you need any block work, it is better to proceed with a 350 block, and recieve better dollar per Hp results.
I am modifying my LG4 to the performance level that I believe the Factory would have produced and sold to the public, except they had to comply with strict EPA standards. ( The standards are still in effect. )
Speaking of wich, all but one of my modifications are street legal, and that is the L69 carb kit. It is legal for a true L69 but not for a true LG4.
Just my .02.

 

There isn't enough difference between an LG4 q-jet and L69 q-jet to make one illegal on the other.

Technically, a 3" cat on an LG4 isn't legal, because they only offered 2-1/4" from the factory. But, you can "convert" an LG4 to L69, and present it as such. The L69 was a pretty good attempt by the factory at performance, and using one is a good place to start if you're going 305. Of course, even they can be improved.

Practically speaking, if you have a thermovac air cleaner and a functioning cat in the factory location (along with all the other checklist stuff and low sniffer readings), you'll pass emissions inspection/testing. Put a different way, there isn't an inspection station in the country that could tell the difference between a legally-modified LG4 and L69 (such as mine was modified). A really **** inspector may quibble about the 3" cat, but I haven't heard of any such thing to date.

You getting all this, White?

 

First off I have way more mods than heads/cam, I just dont list them in my sig because I hate long sigs, they just clog up the real information.

The reason I keep a positive attitude is because I know that the TBI isnt a bad injection system, it just has bad publicity. It seems to most of the TBI guys, swapping to a open element and TBI spacer are the only things they will do. They dont want to swap the cam (though the LT1 cam is getting more popular, but it's too much cam for the 187 heads), they dont want to swap the heads or the intake. The leading TBI figures are the only ones that will rip open the engine. The actual TBI injection isnt going to be a 30hp difference obviously (look at a auto LB9= 190hp with 416/081 heads difference and L03= 170hp with 187 heads that dont flow nearly as much) so it really isnt going to go 14.8 when the TPI car with similar mods goes 14.2, it's just not it. Torque can play a factor since the TPI car will make 20-35 more ft-lbs, but the twisting force really only helps the 60' times. And what about carb? I dont see any carbed 305s blowing any doors off (times please?)

 

bort62 has gone 14.5 @ 98.6 in 105' cali heat in an LG4 with a cam and a few things, but STOCK exhaust manifolds. And he can't drive worth a **** obviously

Another guy Pony Killer from NJ has run way into the 13s and over 100mph barebones 305 builds.

My buddy's monte carlo SS ran 14.0 @ 100 with an intake, way too big cam (comp 280 magnum), long tube headers and duals with all the stock computer stuff no less and was losing power to the cam, and did i mention the stock valve springs. Oh yeah, there were 140k miles when we did that cam swap and it was a well beaten engine, smoked like hell. Fresh could have been some more power too. This guy couldn't drive too well either.

And i know if i tried searching i could find plenty more but those 3 i know right off the top of my head.

But here is where we differ: "The reason I keep a positive attitude is because I know that the TBI isnt a bad injection system, it just has bad publicity. "

I sincerely believe that TBI is an inherently flawed form of fuel injection and hold up as my proof that it doesn't make the power. As an example, it's no secret that given proper tuning, a holley will make more power than an edelbrock carb. It is my contention that TBI just doesn't get it done for whatever reason in WOT high HP applications since such wild inconsistency and tuning issues happen by the time you're touching 300hp. So i can't help but open my big mouth when i see people advocating it as some great thing. If you want to work with it because thats what you have, thats noble. But don't be so against the idea that not everyone feels like banging their head on a wall for fun. It's TBI guys that take it to the next level by praising what they are doing with it, of course i am going to call them out because they are decieving the readers by not sharing results. And all i and the other *******s in this thread are doing is asking for results. And you guys just get meaner. But you still don;t give us results. It's actually funny as hell.

If you actually re-read this post and follow how it degraded, and look at some others you'll see the pattern.

So hey do what you want, but it's not my fault that i can make the stronger argument. And except the boards i moderate we're all free to discuss things. Just don't show up to a gunfight with a knife...

 

Has anyone here ever stroked a 305? I guess not.... I too have the desire to keep my original 305 under the hood, my car is pretty rare. But I do want more power, and I don't want to keep an old 305 in the corner of my garage for some day when I might want to sell the car. So, I see that a stroker kit will bring the engine up to a 335 and with 10:1 pistons supposedly will add 100 hp.... I'll bet a 305 like that would eat most 350's for breakfast and then again for lunch....

Stock 87 vert, 305 TPI w/manual 5 speed.

 

where the hell do you find a 305 stroker kit???????? What else would I have to get???

 

There are at least a couple of vendors who have stroker kits for the 305, here's one... www.enginekits.com

It's not cheap (like everyone here says), a strong 305 costs a few bucks, but if that's what you want then do it! I think it's just a 400 crank, conn rods, pistons, and bearings. Be sure to use a good cam, in 87 the 305 auto/trans had a "peanut" cam that bites. The manual/trans had a good cam, get it or one like it, maybe slightly longer duration would be better... I'm not sure.... Bore it, stroke it, I think that's all there is to it.

 

Ive got an 89RS Manual...............Should I get a Comp Cam.....262 w/ that kit?

 

I suppose the cam you choose may depend on smog requirements.... here's the specs on my stock cam.

Engine LB9 5.0 TPI
(good cam)

Lift: intake .404
exhaust .415

Duration: intake 320
exhaust 320

 

Emissions isnt an issue.