Ok well I went to the track and ran my car. I only ran a 14.82 which is kinda pathetic seeing as how I've already spent 6500 on this engine. Does anyone know whats wrong. I'm either going to buy New Heads or NOS?? Which is better? Pros cons? Can chnging the heads bring me into the 12's or will nitrous? I want the sure thing? My specs:

350 bored .030
Flat top pistons
Elgin cam 210 degrees 215 degrees and .462 int .470ex
S/R torquer Heads decked a little 76cc chambers 170cc runners[I think this is the problem] too low compression???
Edelbrock performer Intake
Holley 650 double pumper
Fuel pressure @ 6#
Timing at 15 degrees, @36 degrees at 2500 RPM
MSD probillet dist.
MSD digital 6+

 

What gears do you have?? Stock TC?? How about headers and cat-back??

 

I have the stock 3.27 gears, limited slip rearend
Have Hooker supercomp headers with flowfaster exhaust (2.5 straight back)
Whats is a TC?

 

If you have an auto, torque converter. Cause a stock one with a high lift cam will hurt you. I would get a 3" cat back and ditch that 2.5". I like the Hooker myself, sound clip is in the signature.

 

NOS IS THE BEST UPGRADE FOR THE DOLLARS YOU CAN SPEND!! C'MON 150HP AT THE FLICK OF A SWITCH? YOU CAN'T BEAT THAT!!! IF YOU HAVE THE BORG WARNER 3.27 9 BOLT, THROW SOME NEW 3.73'S IN FROM WWW.9BOLT.COM AND GET YOU A NITROUS KIT!!! BELIVE ME 12'S WON'T BE THAT HARD TO GET WITH IT ON THE JUICE!!!!

 

Kepp in mind that I have to experience with either nos or heads, but I say get heads. You canalways get nos later and you'd have better heads for it. An d it's always nice to whoop a$$ with natural aspiration.

 

whats your mph? are you getting the power to the ground?

 

I'm only reaching about 94 MPH at the tra. My heads are decked a little but I think the chambers are way to big (76cc). Another option is to deck the hell out of the heads and bring them down to 66cc chambers. What do you think is better, deck eads more or buy new ones? keep in mind I have to sell the heads and cough up 500 bux for new ones.

 

Get the Vortec heads and Com Cam XE268H. I just put those heads on my motor and the Edelbrock intake and 800 CFM carb. It's like a new motor. I had the 76cc heads on it before. Sucked big time. My best time with those was 14.86 spinning tires most of the way. I'm going to the track on June 1st. I've done a lot of mods since then. Powertrax locker new tires and wheels, line loc etc. I should hit the 12s. Can't wait for the first.

Brad...

 

... nm

 

Whats so special about that engine that makes it worth $6500. From your specs it looks like a pretty normal performance built 350.

 

Btw, those heads arent they best but they are certianly enough to get the car into the low 13s. With flat tops your compression should be right around 9:1 with those heads. Thats 87 octane compression, but you should be able to run faster then 14.x on it. Bumping up a point in compression doesnt make all that much difference. I think you've just got some tuning issues. You could probably benefit from a 3" catback but what youve got now is still good for alot more power then you are making.

 

I have the 9 bolt stock limited slip rearend with 3.27s. I think that I might go with some 4.10s. Is this a smart choice? How much will my time decrease? Can I put a rearend in myself and do I need the bearings or just gears? I am pretty good with mechanics, took out a couple of engines but I dont wanna mess up the rearend. Also, should I keep the limited slip or buy a whole new posi rearend? Will it make a big differnece. Dont wanna spend more than $300 on rearend.

 

I decided to go with the NOS then Rearend and lastly heads. I think the NOS might get me from 14s to 12s. How many HP should I use? I want to use as much as possible. I am going to run a fuel pump just for NOS. Price limit is $600 for pump, NOS, and accesories I may need. Specs in sig:

 

I maintain that you have a problem thats keeping you from getting full potential on that engine. Fix that before you put nitrous on it. What's your 60 ft time? Traction problems maybe?
But your mph is still a little low. You shoudl definately run at least in the 13s with your current setup.

 

I am running the same heads as you (I assume you have the 2.02 & 1.60 valves). My car runs in the very low 13's, uncorrected @ 1600'. It will probably run high 12's this year. My block was decked .015" & I used a .019" thick gasket, so the compression is up a bit, around 9.75 to 1. I doubt the heads are your problem. You probably have tuning and/or traction issues. You should work these out before throwing more expensive parts at it.

 

I think it sounds like more of a tuning problem then anything else.

What gap are you running your plugs at?
Is the carb running ritch or lean?

I wouldn't put nitrous on a car unless I had made for shure that everything else was right first. You can cause yourself more anguish then you want to.

Seciond definately get a stall and gears those are the only mechanical problems that I see with your car is that you need arround a 2500 stall and 3.42-3.73 gears.

Is your intake a performer or a performer RPM?

 

I adjusted the carb air/fuel with a vacuum gauge. I got max vacuum at 12#. I'm going to buy an air/fuel ratio gauge. My plugs are gapped at .050. Heads are decked .015 and block .015 (just found that out today). The head gasket is .042 (kinda thick). I am running the regular performer intake.

 

I would lean more twords the intake being more of the problem then the heads

 

Damnit I accidentlly posted without finishing

anyways get a performer RPM intake that will help you out quite a bit the performer is basicly a stock intake just flows slightly better The rpm intake is more so geared twords making power. I have never heared of someone actually liking the performer intake other then it's being pretty compaired to the older stock iron intakes. Your gears and your converter should be your next things to tackle. I think you have much better times in store for you N/A before you go spraying the car.

 

How are the 4th gen rearends with 3.42s. Is there a big diffence between them and getting 3.73s?

 

I can see three major flaws with your engine. First: TINY camshaft. 215 duration ? .462 lift ? That's almost stock! Second: ****ty heads that are designed for a 305, PLUS 76cc chambers!!! Three: 650cfm ?! You need a 750 to run 100+ mph ETs.

Think of this as constructive criticism. I'd say get a cam that's designed to make horsepower like the cheap Edelbrock RPM cam. 230/240 duration and .488/.510 lift. Also like these other guys suggested, get a Performer RPM intake. And throw those heads in the trash or sell them on Ebay. Get some nice aluminum heads like the Edelbrock RPMs. That combo right there is guaranteed by Edelbrock to make 420 HP. That's a mid 12 second combination for a little over a thousand dollars.

 

Number 1 I am shure that those cam specs are given at .050" and that makes it arround a 270 cam which is not too small. The lift isnt' too bad either. He is only about .020" from what you say is a good cam lift 230-240 @ .050" duration is a very large cam on a 350 much too big for the street in my opinion.

Number 2 those heads arn't designed for a 305 they offer a model of that head for the 305 they actually don't flow too bad they would be good enough on a high 12sec car with the right setup.

Number 3 Carb size is fine as long as he isn't turning above 6k with the engine personally I would have chose a 750 but each to his own. If a 650 is all I had then I would use it and make the best of it.

Take that as constructive criticism though.

 

I would keep everything the same except the intake for now. Get the RPM on there and tune the heck out of the carb. Buy the holley jet kit that has all the different size jets in it and take your car to the track on test and tune night and tune on it. Later on I would get the compression up some. Use a .039 head gasket and mill the heads to get about 10:1. On some motors that have been tested in "Hot Rod" or "Car Craft" one full point of compression can be worth 30 hp. Also I think your plug gap is too wide. Bring it down to .035 to see if it responds to this. If you drive the car on the street or highway a whole lot I would get the 3.73's and about a 2500 converter if you don't have one already.

NOS is a good choice but if I were you I would really check out these other things first. Another way to drop a tenth or two is to get some exhaust cut-outs and uncap them at the track.

 

1st I'd find out what is slowing the current combo down before changing it/making it faster. Check timing, timing curves and jetting. I just feel it's a fuel/time problem.

 

All this coming from a TPI guy! LOL 20 or 30 degrees of duration at .050 can make a HUGE difference. That 230/240 cam was designed for a 350 and it's FINE on the street. My friend's Camaro has that combo and it's a great daily driver that can stomp on any stock LS1 with ease and then some.

 

Just because I am a tpi guy means I don't know ****?????? LMAO

You know no matter what the engine over caming a engine doesn't help. He obvuously doen't have the setup for that size of cam that you sucgest and the one he has is fine. It is probably arround a 272*-278* which is plenty big and fairly well matched with his heads. That is why I don't think it is too small of a cam.

 

What do you guys think about the RPM Air Gap?? I'm gonna buy a new intake but I'm getting heads and cam too soon. I dont care if the intake matches now but I want an intake that will go with a excellent pair of aluminum heads and a high lift cam. Is this a good choice? Whats the the highest lift roller cam I can use with this intake? I drive streets once in a while. I might go with trickflow 23 degree heads or dart pro heads. Please Help. Buying the intak tomorrow!!

 

I have the rpm air gap on my vortecs and really like it.

 

Air gap is a good intake but if money is an issue get the regular rpm it is a heck of alot cheeper and almost the same thing.

Lift of a cam doen't really have any effect on how a intake will work with it. It is more so the rpm range of the cam and rpm range of the intake. A 270 and up cam will work really well with any of the rmp family intakes. What sets the limits on how much lift you can run in a cam is set by:

Head ( how much lift the valve can go before the spring retainers hit the valve guides)

Valvesprings (how much lift they can take without binding)

Piston to valve clearance (how much lift you can go before your valves hit the pistons, this depends on the pistons you are using and some heads change this demention. It is generally accepted that you should have at least .080" bare mininum clearance between the vave and the piston at full lift.)

 

I am still wondering where the $6500 went? I'm not trying to be rude, but I spent $3000 mocking up the 420hp Vortec build in CHP. And no I don't think I have the 420hp, mainly b/c I don't have a dyno to prove it. But my point is, for $6500 you should be hitting the 11's.

 

I agree with johnsjj2 on this if you spent 6500 on that setup
that must be because you paid to have it done in which case
your engine builder screwed up and you should take it back
but reading through your setup sounds ok i guess
but so many people focus on bolting on new parts and all that
the GM stuff is pretty good in the right combo instead of just slapping stuff together take the time to research tuneing problems and try to figure out where you went wrong because
if you try to bottle feed your engine now chances are good that you will be pulling parts out of the oil pan. btw did you port and index your intake it wouldnt cause your problems but it never hurts

anyway what do I know I cant get my '79 past 12's

 

Ya actually after looking at the prices, I included various little expenses like headers, exhaust, etc. I considered those to be expenses because I did the whole engine at once. Also, new injectors, computer chip, wires, starter, fluids. Today someone offered to buy my engine and the TPI setup and I accepted. We'll see if he comes up with some money tomorrow. I'm building a whole new engine and I'm gonna need alot of help. I'm thinking a 388 stroker, sm block 400 or 427. I'm gonna wait til I get the money before I get my hopes up. I want to run 11s. If anyone is running either of these engines or has suggestions I appreciate them.

 

I'm sorry if I missed it, I read the thread twice, but you still haven't mentioned your tranny setup. If you are running a stock converter then that alone could be your problem and your posted times look about right. The engine combo looks good to me if maybe a little mild for solid 12s, especially in a third gen.

Another point, why are you talking of building another motor when you haven't optimized this one? That just seems like a huge waste. So say you build another motor with an additional 200hp and you still can't even hit a 13, what then? A third with 200hp more? So now you've got an 800hp, $25,000, 13 second car. I'm obviously exagerating but you get the point. Building a new engine to overcome traction/tranny/tuning issues just seems a little strange to me. If you can't put the power down until half track, more power is going to do little more than empty your wallet. If I'm off base or missed something, sorry, no offence intended...

Andy

 

Depending on how much denero you will have, I would build a 434 SB. I have wanted one of those for a long time. I have never had a stroker, so I can't give specific advice on that.

 

I am not offended and I am happy that you are truthful. My point here is that I basically break even on the longblock by selling it. Not many times can you break even on an engine sale. This is an opportunity to complete my car and really go all out with the engine. my car has everything else as far as cosmetics and I just want to get an awesome engine and race it and enter it in shows. I really think I want a 427 or a 388 stroker. I just have to do a little more homework and see where I can get a good deal. I dont know whether to buy the kit and have someone build it, or by the whole thing assembled. The most I want to spend is $4000. BTW to answer your question I am running the stock TC and Borg warner 3.27s in the limited slip. If I sell the engine I will get a stall converter and some 3.73s or 4.10s. If not I still plan on doing stall and rear. I'm just waiting to see if the guy has money or no.

 

things just dont jive, my car has approx 225hp and can pull low 14's, your engine is better in everyway. The combo isnt the problem, something isnt working properly. Is the cam properly timed? Pulling it and building a new engine would be extremely foolish.