I am considering the gm vortec heads on the 350 I am building. I was wondering though...what is the whole deal with the 23* valve angle and matching the cam to it? I have heard something about problems with the valve angle and the cam not getting the advertised lift or interferences with pushrods??? I dont remember but I am curious.

Also if I do decide to buy these heads...where is the best pace to buy (as far as price), and can you buy them with the 2.02/1.60 valves or do you have to have them worked?

In relation to that, where is the most affordable place to buy the edelbrock performer rpm vortec intake?

Thanks in advance for any and all responses.

 

HHHMMMM.....

That is the first time I heard about that. FYI I haven't had any problems with my Vortecs. Get the Vortec specific manifold, because I think that's what's screwing me up. 1.94 1.50 is the only option. They are a great value. I recomend them for street engines. I got mine from Jim Pace Pontiac. Good people.

 

where is Jim Pace at? Is that local? I have heard of the 2.02 heads but GMPP's website say they "can be machined to accept 2.02/1.60 valves." But part of the escence of the vortec is how good they are as-is. I dont want a shop doing a worse job on the valve seats to put in 2.02s than the factory 1.94s. I hear the factory heads are pretty much perfect. No porting or seat grinding will get you much better.

If you could let me know where it is at I will call and find out.

But no problems? I dont remember for sure what the deal was...WAIT... I think it was just assembly parts. People bought the wrong angle valves and I think the rockers are a little different too. So if you buy the complete head you wont have that problem. But if you buy bare to have 2.02 valves machined in, people bought the wrong stuff.

HHHMMMMM...
Thanks

 

The valves themselves are the same as for any other factory SBC head. So is the cam, and so are the rockers (at least, the same as any other self-aligning ones). The angle refers to how far the valve stems are from being parallel to the cylinder axis, not to some property of the valve.

Scoggin-Dickey offers worked-up sets of them, maybe they'll sell you some with 2.02" valves put in them.

 

www.paceparts.com
They are on the net. Jegs newest catalog shows an aluminum Vortec head with 2.00" intake valves. At that price you may be better off with an aftermarket head that does not require a special manifold. The issue you may be refering to is about self aligning rocker arms. The standard valve train requires the use of them.

 

I think the issue you have heard is that the valves can't take a lot of lift without the retainers hitting the top of the valve guides. The press-in rocker studs are also limited when increasing lift and/or spring force. CHP magazine has an article on this in the August '02 edition.

Personally, I can't see bothering with those factory-quality casting truck heads, when for less money you can get aftermarket performance heads that are made for what we're trying to do. But, that's just my little personal bias...

 

If you want to go the fastest possible for the least amount of money, then vortecs are the way to go. If you want to go fast for the least hassle, then they are NOT the way to go. It is a pain in the *** to make them work with a decent size cam, but once you've got them made to work, they are awesome heads. And 2.02 valves will not do ANYTHING for vortec heads. Instead, invest in 1.6 exhaust valves, and port the snot out of the exhaust, clean up the intake bowls, and cut down the guides, but leave the "fin" in place when you are working on the guides. With some extensively ported vortecs on my firebird, I pull away from my Friend Vadim's nearly identical equiped 85 trans am (same 3.73 gears, close ratio manual trans, 3,100 pounds, ect).........except he's got Brownsfield ported aluminum heads and a solid roller cam. I'm running cast iron vortecs and a regular flat tappet 284 extreme energy cam. Explain that! Oh, and he runs 12.40's @112. So yes, vortecs can make some serious power with the right setup. My goal is to hit 11's corrected with my vortec heads N/A and no other major changes or power adders except for maybe slicks. Email me if you want the details on how to make the vortecs work with big cams. Its not nearly as complicated is people make it seem.

 

The reason I want to go with the vortec heads:
Cost
Efficiency
Durability

I have heard from MANY professionals that the heads that some say are factory-quality, are SO well made that you cannot do alot to improve them. And for the cost, Vortec 1.94 $250/ea. and Aftermarket minimum $350+, they cannot be beat. And as far as the intake to fit, maybe $50 more.

I would rather put the extra $50 in the intake than $200-400 more for aftermarket heads. Hell, that pays for the headers.

I'm not sure of what problems with lift they have though. I am only going with the XE-268 which is only .485 lift. So I am hoping there wont be any problem. But that is why I check here. Usually someone has tried it.

I am not trying to start any pro or anti-vortec thread. I am just trying to figure out if that is what I really want to buy. I appreciate all opinions. They all give me something to think about.

 

I was real impressed with the vortec heads from Wheeler Motorsports. I found out that most all the performance versions of these heads that people are selling come from them.
They come with ferrera swirl polished valves, comp springs, locks and retainers and are race prepped on all machine work. For the money it is a smoking deal and they make power!

 

.485" lift is too much for unmodified Vortecs. Need springs and guides cut.

"Durability" and "press-in rocker studs" cannot be used in the same sentence. Especially with .485" lift and the springs it will take to handle it.

 

The Wheeler vortec heads set up for a hydr. cam are good to .550 lift and are machined for screw in studs and guide plates. The solids I think were good to .600 lift. They also clear the pushrod holes.

 

I got in touch with Wheeler at 888-389-4414

 

I have heard of people that use the XE-268 cam with the stock vortec heads with no problem. I just want to hear from them. CHP even used this set-up in their "Agent 87" articles from last year. The issue I have (june 01) has an El Camino they used the combo on and after headers and exhaust they got 390hp and 446 lb-ft of torque. That is in the same general range I am aiming for. They did not modify the heads. And CHP has promoted the Vortecs in other articles too.

With people I know personally, people on these boards, and CHP all saying they are good heads with good dependability (with pressed studs) they must be decent.

Wheeler is good, huh? I will check them out. thanks. How much are the worked heads? I am strongly considering them.

Thanks again.

 

I would have had trouble after reading and following the CHP articles. The Vortecs that I used had a measurement of .465 retainer to seal. Those articles did not tell the whole story if you ask me. They could have hit the seals. They were only dyno motors if I remember correctly. I can remember them stating that certain cams could be used with no mods.

Yeah right! In the latest issue of Chevy Hope & Pray they have an article stating that the Vortecs are only good for .420 clearance. About face sir? That is the most correct lift spec that I have seen given for these heads. Thats assuming that they are all the same from the factory. (Yeah sure!). .465-.420=.055" clearance which is about right.

Now I guess they are getting kickbacks from the people selling the cutting tools needed to correct this situation.

Whew....flames off now on CHP

Darrell

 

Wheelers vortec for a hydr cam are $599 and I believe they were $699 for solid.
I copied this off their site (http://www.wheelermotorsports.net):
"For applications where steel heads are needed Sportsman Series Cylinder Heads offer a wide variety of options such as: new castings, increased lift, seat pressure, smaller combustion chambers, swirl polished Ferrea valves, a 3 angle valve job, 10º super locks & retainers. Sportsman heads are surfaced, CC'd, and come machined for screw-in studs and guide plates."

 

i spent long times looking at $$$$ in this regard to vortecs,,i found sallee chev on the net is better than jegs or the so called discount shops on the net,,and they answer e mails promptly,,AND have good technical advise,,on getting the job done,and they have a whole 5 page listed on vortecs in regards to proper GM parts and EDELBROCK HOLLEY COMP CAMS included,,,,they list every nut and bolt to fit these things from roller rockers 6 types to valve covers and several alternatives,,,chev high performance magazine june 2002 says tests have shown 2.02 valves done nothing,,,,,the factory setup is big bang for bucks,,,,,i aint going 2.02,,,in my 400ci,,

 

Well, in case you didnt' read my sig the first time...........I was running my stock vortecs with a Comp Cam 268 Extreme Energy for quite a while with MANY 1/4 mile passes............misses shifts and over revs (had it up 6,500 rpms on many occasions until I discovered the car was faster shifting at 5,800) so I'd definitely say a 268 cam works just fine with stock vortecs. Those springs are definitely iffy for anything bigger though, but that 268 has some rather mild lift #'s.

EDIT: Ah.....My bad, I didn't notice that my sig doesn't say I had the 268 cam with the vortecs