whats wrong with Cross Fire Injection?
07-23-2002, 01:55 PM
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No, not really.
It's worse.
Think of a Citation 4-cylinder. Then think of a 305 V8. That's all CFI is: 2 4-cylinder injectors mounted on a V8. It's the same thing as a mini grocery cart, just twice as much of it. That's about what it runs like in stock form too.
Take the intake off and look at the runners, you'll understand instantly. Plus the ECM is unbelievably crude. Although, it's just yerbasic speed-density system, you can rewire it for a 7730 ECM and then have some programming capability.
It's worse.
Think of a Citation 4-cylinder. Then think of a 305 V8. That's all CFI is: 2 4-cylinder injectors mounted on a V8. It's the same thing as a mini grocery cart, just twice as much of it. That's about what it runs like in stock form too.
Take the intake off and look at the runners, you'll understand instantly. Plus the ECM is unbelievably crude. Although, it's just yerbasic speed-density system, you can rewire it for a 7730 ECM and then have some programming capability.
07-23-2002, 02:37 PM
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Yep, the intake is highly restrictive.
Side note: Chrysler used something very similar to the CF on their Hemi in the '60s. The advantage was a low profile manifold that still had decently straight shot to the intake port. The longer runners also increased the low end torque without sacrificing too much on the high end.
Side note: Chrysler used something very similar to the CF on their Hemi in the '60s. The advantage was a low profile manifold that still had decently straight shot to the intake port. The longer runners also increased the low end torque without sacrificing too much on the high end.
07-23-2002, 04:06 PM
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Chrysler didn't use anything like CFI ever. And don't compare CFI to the cross ram 302s either. CFI is just cool looking junk. True cross ram style manifolds have a pretty significantly different design, with performance as the goal. CFI's plenum is small and the bend to get into the runners is completely anathema to performance, which is just the tip of the iceberg....
The runners are small and can't be opened up enough to make any power. Want proof. There was a post on the TBI board within the past month or 2 debating CFI. One of it's strongest proponents had a good series of pictures showing how fully ported you could get it. For all of that work, he was running 14s....in a corvette. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yeah, thats what i call potential. The best part is it's easy to see why CFI doens't work well when you look at his pictures. Even 'fully ported' it suffers from an even worse port entry angle and lack of transition than TPI, and the TPI base is a pretty poor manifold design in itself. Cocaine was a popular drug in the 80s...
Besides that, it also is spraying fuel directly into an aluminum plenum that has A LOT of surface area and very little volume. Apparently concepts like inertia and condensation are lost on some folks.
BUT not the engineers at GM. When they designed CFI they recognized the condensation problem and designed the intake with a large coolant plenum in it. Thats right, the intake was designed to heat soak with hot coolant so that the fuel wouldn't tend to collect on it. Whats that old adage about cold air...
And at the end of the day, it's TBI. As a quick glance at the TBI board will show, noone has ever made a TBI car run very fast. Occasioanally, with enough life investment and money some guys get them into the 13s. I think i've heard of a couple 12 second cars, but IIRC they were also on nitrous (hmmm, resorting to an alternative fuel injection source to make power). There may be 1 or 2 NA 12 second TBI cars. But i guarantee you i can find more12 second NA 305s than 12 second NA TBI cars with any engine.
It is my contention that TBI is an inherently flawed form of fuel injection that suffers from poor fuel distribution in it's fuel/air charge. Seems to work pretty good for parth throttle when the throttle blades are near closed so as to provide a good venturi, in essence acting like a carb. At WOT though, you're just spraying fuel into the air, no mixing taking place whatsoever. It's just a theory, but i have no other explanation for why all TBI cars are slower than their combo of parts would seem. And that's ignoring the fact that the TBI pod has no volume to buffer fuel pulses, so fuel pressure, and thus flow at the point of injection is going to be inherently erratic at high flow volumes. And apparently every ECM GM ever used to run TBI also has issues, even compared to the retard ECMs in the first generation port injected engines. Or at least that's what it sounds like when you read on the trouble they go through to get them tuned.
But then again, some people think low 14s is fast. If thats the case, then i guess CFI / TBI ain't so bad.
The runners are small and can't be opened up enough to make any power. Want proof. There was a post on the TBI board within the past month or 2 debating CFI. One of it's strongest proponents had a good series of pictures showing how fully ported you could get it. For all of that work, he was running 14s....in a corvette. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yeah, thats what i call potential. The best part is it's easy to see why CFI doens't work well when you look at his pictures. Even 'fully ported' it suffers from an even worse port entry angle and lack of transition than TPI, and the TPI base is a pretty poor manifold design in itself. Cocaine was a popular drug in the 80s...
Besides that, it also is spraying fuel directly into an aluminum plenum that has A LOT of surface area and very little volume. Apparently concepts like inertia and condensation are lost on some folks.
BUT not the engineers at GM. When they designed CFI they recognized the condensation problem and designed the intake with a large coolant plenum in it. Thats right, the intake was designed to heat soak with hot coolant so that the fuel wouldn't tend to collect on it. Whats that old adage about cold air...
And at the end of the day, it's TBI. As a quick glance at the TBI board will show, noone has ever made a TBI car run very fast. Occasioanally, with enough life investment and money some guys get them into the 13s. I think i've heard of a couple 12 second cars, but IIRC they were also on nitrous (hmmm, resorting to an alternative fuel injection source to make power). There may be 1 or 2 NA 12 second TBI cars. But i guarantee you i can find more12 second NA 305s than 12 second NA TBI cars with any engine.
It is my contention that TBI is an inherently flawed form of fuel injection that suffers from poor fuel distribution in it's fuel/air charge. Seems to work pretty good for parth throttle when the throttle blades are near closed so as to provide a good venturi, in essence acting like a carb. At WOT though, you're just spraying fuel into the air, no mixing taking place whatsoever. It's just a theory, but i have no other explanation for why all TBI cars are slower than their combo of parts would seem. And that's ignoring the fact that the TBI pod has no volume to buffer fuel pulses, so fuel pressure, and thus flow at the point of injection is going to be inherently erratic at high flow volumes. And apparently every ECM GM ever used to run TBI also has issues, even compared to the retard ECMs in the first generation port injected engines. Or at least that's what it sounds like when you read on the trouble they go through to get them tuned.
But then again, some people think low 14s is fast. If thats the case, then i guess CFI / TBI ain't so bad.
Last edited by Ed Maher; 07-23-2002 at 04:15 PM.
07-23-2002, 05:11 PM
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Ed, you don't have to beat around the bush so much, this is the Internet, you can come right out and tell us what you really think... OK??
And I thought I was a bit harsh. :lala:
And I thought I was a bit harsh. :lala:
07-23-2002, 05:13 PM
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Its apparent ed's 14 second corvette crack was made at me.
Yeah it runs low 14's, and it has hardly any mods. Ive got plenty of parts in my garage i havent put on yet. My headers are in the mail. And it will hold its own against most stock tpi's I outran an 89 vette this morning. It was close, but i had the edge.
There are quite a few 300+hp crossfire cars on the crossfire forum running low 13's.
The manifold is restrictive for serious performance, but for a mild application, it can get the job done.
Its not so much an airflow problem as its a fuel flow problem. Dominic has dynoed his at 280rwhp once he got his fuel flow issue sorted out. Thats lt4 territory. With a worked over stock manifold.
Theres nothing bad about it. Its not great for performance, but for reliabilty, and mild applications it works.
Couple other corrections. You cant use a 7730 on a tbi system without external injector drivers. Most people use a 7747 for ease of tuning, but one owner is busy hacking the stock ecm, and has proven its everybit as fast as the 7747. He pulled out the mask rom and compared it to the 7747. It uses the same cpu at the same speed, 90% of the code is the same. The sluggish response comes from a lack of timing on the stock chip. Once he changed it, it responded everybit has well as the 7747.
Fbody systems are in a more difficult position, they're stuck with a smaller engine, poorer flowing components, horrible exhaust. Reall every part of the system needs to be addressed to make it work.
If i had the chance to install a high flow alternative such as a super ram or stealth, i probably would, but theres no point in switching to a stock tpi system in my case. Why? My system flows as well, and delivers all the fuel i need and will need, to hit my goal of about 270hp. So for me it works. For others it works. If you want to run 12's n/a easily, look elsewhere. If your a diy'er who likes a challenge try it.
Yeah it runs low 14's, and it has hardly any mods. Ive got plenty of parts in my garage i havent put on yet. My headers are in the mail. And it will hold its own against most stock tpi's I outran an 89 vette this morning. It was close, but i had the edge.
There are quite a few 300+hp crossfire cars on the crossfire forum running low 13's.
The manifold is restrictive for serious performance, but for a mild application, it can get the job done.
Its not so much an airflow problem as its a fuel flow problem. Dominic has dynoed his at 280rwhp once he got his fuel flow issue sorted out. Thats lt4 territory. With a worked over stock manifold.
Theres nothing bad about it. Its not great for performance, but for reliabilty, and mild applications it works.
Couple other corrections. You cant use a 7730 on a tbi system without external injector drivers. Most people use a 7747 for ease of tuning, but one owner is busy hacking the stock ecm, and has proven its everybit as fast as the 7747. He pulled out the mask rom and compared it to the 7747. It uses the same cpu at the same speed, 90% of the code is the same. The sluggish response comes from a lack of timing on the stock chip. Once he changed it, it responded everybit has well as the 7747.
Fbody systems are in a more difficult position, they're stuck with a smaller engine, poorer flowing components, horrible exhaust. Reall every part of the system needs to be addressed to make it work.
If i had the chance to install a high flow alternative such as a super ram or stealth, i probably would, but theres no point in switching to a stock tpi system in my case. Why? My system flows as well, and delivers all the fuel i need and will need, to hit my goal of about 270hp. So for me it works. For others it works. If you want to run 12's n/a easily, look elsewhere. If your a diy'er who likes a challenge try it.
Last edited by nsimmons; 07-23-2002 at 05:19 PM.
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07-23-2002, 05:16 PM
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Don't get me starter! My CFI committed suicide when I brought a 350 block to replace the 305. It saw the cam I had, and it was over !!!
Ron
Ron
07-23-2002, 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by ronterry
Don't get me starter! My CFI committed suicide when I brought a 350 block to replace the 305. It saw the cam I had, and it was over !!!
Ron
Don't get me starter! My CFI committed suicide when I brought a 350 block to replace the 305. It saw the cam I had, and it was over !!!
Ron
07-23-2002, 05:27 PM
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yes the xram is a viable choice, but its pricey, 385 bucks. Dominic though is running the stock manifold its ported and extrude honed, but its still the original manifold.
If i had an extra 400 bucks, i'd probably get the xram, it flows 250cfm a port, compared to a ported crossfires 200cfm and a stock tpi 200cfm.
But in my case, the money is better spent elsewhere.
If i had an extra 400 bucks, i'd probably get the xram, it flows 250cfm a port, compared to a ported crossfires 200cfm and a stock tpi 200cfm.
But in my case, the money is better spent elsewhere.
07-23-2002, 07:02 PM
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nsimmons, I guess it was you that posted the great pictorial of the ported CFI. I'll give you credit for that. Now i am at least sure that it is a complete junk design. I won't post on the TBI board, and thus thats why i didn't post this argument to that thread, but did it occur to you whilst doing all that work that nothing about it is shaped right, all the transitions are horrible, etc.
Airflow into an engine, or more appropriately the head, goes in pulses. When you're talking about a manifold with no transition to the runner and a completely wrong entry angle into the head a raw airflow number is pretty meaningless. A stock TPI will (and does) have no problem making more power than i have ever seen or heard of a CFI base supporting.
And then there's still fuel suspension problems, and the whole TBI thing to figt as well in the quest for power.
Next thing you know there's going to be a blown CFI vette in here running 13s in here telling us that CFI is a viable way to make power too
And IMO it's not crack if it's the truth. I've seen this debate go down. And you know what. I'm saving you guys the trouble of even posting your side of the story, your results speak for themselves.
If anything in my above post is inaccurate, feel free to correct me. For example, nsimmons said "Theres nothing bad about it." OK, can we explain that in light of the obvious flaws i pointed out? From where i'm standing, i see a lot of bad things about it. And i'm not alone, CFI has been dogged since the 80s as unreliable and generally slow.
Airflow into an engine, or more appropriately the head, goes in pulses. When you're talking about a manifold with no transition to the runner and a completely wrong entry angle into the head a raw airflow number is pretty meaningless. A stock TPI will (and does) have no problem making more power than i have ever seen or heard of a CFI base supporting.
And then there's still fuel suspension problems, and the whole TBI thing to figt as well in the quest for power.
Next thing you know there's going to be a blown CFI vette in here running 13s in here telling us that CFI is a viable way to make power too
And IMO it's not crack if it's the truth. I've seen this debate go down. And you know what. I'm saving you guys the trouble of even posting your side of the story, your results speak for themselves.
If anything in my above post is inaccurate, feel free to correct me. For example, nsimmons said "Theres nothing bad about it." OK, can we explain that in light of the obvious flaws i pointed out? From where i'm standing, i see a lot of bad things about it. And i'm not alone, CFI has been dogged since the 80s as unreliable and generally slow.
07-23-2002, 07:12 PM
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Im not going to argue with you guys. Its not unrelaible. How could it be? Theres hardly any parts.
Ive seen the experiments and the dyno sheets, the time slips and the flowbench numbers to know whats its capable of. Just because you refuse to follow along with real progress of it, and mock camaro guys with pretty much stock tbi engines, that doesnt mean that other people arent making it work.
btw the blown crossfire runs mid 12's, he now has a full size crossram on it. No numbers yet. It was good enough for the z28.
Ive seen the experiments and the dyno sheets, the time slips and the flowbench numbers to know whats its capable of. Just because you refuse to follow along with real progress of it, and mock camaro guys with pretty much stock tbi engines, that doesnt mean that other people arent making it work.
btw the blown crossfire runs mid 12's, he now has a full size crossram on it. No numbers yet. It was good enough for the z28.
07-23-2002, 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by nsimmons
Its not unrelaible. How could it be? Theres hardly any parts.
Its not unrelaible. How could it be? Theres hardly any parts.
FWIW my stock 87 TPI with 170,000 miles ran a 14.2 last time i took it to the track
07-23-2002, 09:20 PM
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the cease fire nick name was given do to leaky hood ducts on 82 camaros which caused the engine to fill with water, this isnt relevant on 82,84 vettes or 83 fbodies
but you knew this didnt you.
There isnt any specific issues with the engine, beside the 82's hood problem. Most problems that strike a crossfire engine could just as easily strike a tpi engine, most of the sensors are the same.
14.2 so what? this car ran a 14.3, my 91 tpi ran a 14.04, differences which can be attributed to wheel spin.
btw these numbers for your l98 are taken right from your webpage
Performance
0-60 - 6.2 seconds
1/4 - 14.5 seconds
horsepower - 220 @ 4400 rpm
torque - 330 @ 2800 rpm Curb weight 3225 lb
Now if my car weighs 3200 lbs, which i measured myself. Runs a 14.3@95 and my gtech shows a 6.0 consistently, ( at least 6 times)
Doesnt it stand to reason that my car is putting out slightly more hp, like maybe 10 more, that your stock l98? All ive done is corrected some flawed factory parts, ie the fuel pump, and matched the air flow of a tpi engine.
No flames, Im trying to have a serious conversation
I havent made any more runs since i tossed my mufflers, fixed my detonation problem and added the ads chip, but the open exhaust made a very noticible difference i wasnt expecting. I was mainly doing it for sound.
but you knew this didnt you.
There isnt any specific issues with the engine, beside the 82's hood problem. Most problems that strike a crossfire engine could just as easily strike a tpi engine, most of the sensors are the same.
14.2 so what? this car ran a 14.3, my 91 tpi ran a 14.04, differences which can be attributed to wheel spin.
btw these numbers for your l98 are taken right from your webpage
Performance
0-60 - 6.2 seconds
1/4 - 14.5 seconds
horsepower - 220 @ 4400 rpm
torque - 330 @ 2800 rpm Curb weight 3225 lb
Now if my car weighs 3200 lbs, which i measured myself. Runs a 14.3@95 and my gtech shows a 6.0 consistently, ( at least 6 times)
Doesnt it stand to reason that my car is putting out slightly more hp, like maybe 10 more, that your stock l98? All ive done is corrected some flawed factory parts, ie the fuel pump, and matched the air flow of a tpi engine.
No flames, Im trying to have a serious conversation
I havent made any more runs since i tossed my mufflers, fixed my detonation problem and added the ads chip, but the open exhaust made a very noticible difference i wasnt expecting. I was mainly doing it for sound.
Last edited by nsimmons; 07-23-2002 at 09:30 PM.
07-23-2002, 09:37 PM
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I'm sorry to have touched on a sore subject. Ed, you are an A*S*S*H*O*L*E*. So what if you're not a fan of CFI, nobody gives a great g0d damn about what you think. i thought you were being nice for once, telling nsimmons he did a good job on the article, then you F***ed it up with the whole junk design comment. you *****. if youre such a genius, why dont you have a job designing a better flowing induction system? jackass. come on nsimmons, build that CFI to kick his ***! nice discussion would have been nice, but you came off as being extremely sarcastic. and the comment about you not posting on the TBI board? WTF?? you too good for that you yuppie? in case you were wondering, your **** DOES stink. go to hell.
07-23-2002, 09:46 PM
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nasty bird, your posts going to get yanked pretty quick, but for the most part your right.
There is a serious lake of maturity and respect for other car enthutiasts on this board, which doesnt happen on the other boards i visit. I dont own an fbody, but ive owned 3 and parts are similar, so theres sometimes good info here to. If you want some more info, basic history, etc. check out the crossfire forum.
Some interesting things going on with full size cross rams as of late.
http://www.crossfire.webhop.net
There is a serious lake of maturity and respect for other car enthutiasts on this board, which doesnt happen on the other boards i visit. I dont own an fbody, but ive owned 3 and parts are similar, so theres sometimes good info here to. If you want some more info, basic history, etc. check out the crossfire forum.
Some interesting things going on with full size cross rams as of late.
http://www.crossfire.webhop.net
07-23-2002, 09:47 PM
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Car: 92 Trans Am 'Vert
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 5 Speed
CFI Throttle Bodys are SINGLE BORE??? Ohh my... :lala:
BTW: Nasty Bird, first of all, this thread was started asking why CFI was so bad. Secondly, Ed merely came here, and gave more info on why it IS bad than Ive seen you or anyone else give. I think its safe to say he knows what hes talking about. Is it his fault that CFI is junk? Is it his fault that he knows why CFI is junk? Nope. Didnt think so. Stock CFI is an inacurate, horribly flowing system. It has the flow charachteristics of a kitchen blender. And theres really no way to get around that, without taping the aftermarket. Get over it.
Oh yeah... Calling a Moderator an A**HOLE is a sure fire way to get banned around here. Nice work.
:lala: BTW: Nasty Bird, first of all, this thread was started asking why CFI was so bad. Secondly, Ed merely came here, and gave more info on why it IS bad than Ive seen you or anyone else give. I think its safe to say he knows what hes talking about. Is it his fault that CFI is junk? Is it his fault that he knows why CFI is junk? Nope. Didnt think so. Stock CFI is an inacurate, horribly flowing system. It has the flow charachteristics of a kitchen blender. And theres really no way to get around that, without taping the aftermarket. Get over it.
Oh yeah... Calling a Moderator an A**HOLE is a sure fire way to get banned around here. Nice work.
07-23-2002, 10:00 PM
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Car: 92 Trans Am 'Vert
Engine: 305 TPI
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Yeah, 800 CFM wet. Thats alot less than 800 CFM dry like a TPI system. I dont remeber the exact conversion, but its substantially less.
07-23-2002, 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by Nasty_Bird_'90
I'm sorry to have touched on a sore subject. Ed, you are an A*S*S*H*O*L*E*. So what if you're not a fan of CFI, nobody gives a great g0d damn about what you think. i thought you were being nice for once, telling nsimmons he did a good job on the article, then you F***ed it up with the whole junk design comment. you *****. if youre such a genius, why dont you have a job designing a better flowing induction system? jackass. come on nsimmons, build that CFI to kick his ***! nice discussion would have been nice, but you came off as being extremely sarcastic. and the comment about you not posting on the TBI board? WTF?? you too good for that you yuppie? in case you were wondering, your **** DOES stink. go to hell.
I'm sorry to have touched on a sore subject. Ed, you are an A*S*S*H*O*L*E*. So what if you're not a fan of CFI, nobody gives a great g0d damn about what you think. i thought you were being nice for once, telling nsimmons he did a good job on the article, then you F***ed it up with the whole junk design comment. you *****. if youre such a genius, why dont you have a job designing a better flowing induction system? jackass. come on nsimmons, build that CFI to kick his ***! nice discussion would have been nice, but you came off as being extremely sarcastic. and the comment about you not posting on the TBI board? WTF?? you too good for that you yuppie? in case you were wondering, your **** DOES stink. go to hell.
Doesnt make much sense.
The stock manifold is horrible and even with all of the "porting" (I use that term loosley) it is still behing other induction systems. I would call it unreliable ,but I would call it poor flowing and poorly designed. You may be able to get it to mach flow numbers with a stock TPI intake but one thing you have to remember is that TPI only has to move Air throught the manifold , CFI has to move fuel and air so CFI is still at a disadvantage. It is a weak system and EVERY other induction system that has been on a thirdgen (Qjet , TBI , TPI) will make more power than it... period.
07-23-2002, 10:05 PM
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7% flow loss do to fuel
so 746cfm
btw heres dominics engine. Trick flow heads, cam, bored tbi's headers, some other stuff. 280rwhp, fully emissions compliant, original manifold. No wot tuning yet.
so 746cfm
btw heres dominics engine. Trick flow heads, cam, bored tbi's headers, some other stuff. 280rwhp, fully emissions compliant, original manifold. No wot tuning yet.
Last edited by nsimmons; 07-23-2002 at 10:34 PM.
07-24-2002, 11:49 AM
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the reason i posted it was because me and a friend were having a discussion about it so i wanted to know why everyone hated it andto get some more info on it. im no fan of t either. sure he may know alot about it, but the way he stated it made him come off as an ***.
07-24-2002, 12:36 PM
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yeah its not a great performer, i just want to make sure people have both sides of the story, mainly dispel myths thats its unreliable and could never perform.
07-24-2002, 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by nsimmons
7% flow loss do to fuel
so 746cfm
btw heres dominics engine. Trick flow heads, cam, bored tbi's headers, some other stuff. 280rwhp, fully emissions compliant, original manifold. No wot tuning yet.
7% flow loss do to fuel
so 746cfm
btw heres dominics engine. Trick flow heads, cam, bored tbi's headers, some other stuff. 280rwhp, fully emissions compliant, original manifold. No wot tuning yet.
07-24-2002, 02:25 PM
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I'm sorry to have touched on a sore subject. Ed, you are an A*S*S*H*O*L*E*. So what if you're not a fan of CFI, nobody gives a great g0d damn about what you think. i thought you were being nice for once, telling nsimmons he did a good job on the article, then you F***ed it up with the whole junk design comment. you *****. if youre such a genius, why dont you have a job designing a better flowing induction system? jackass. come on nsimmons, build that CFI to kick his ***! nice discussion would have been nice, but you came off as being extremely sarcastic. and the comment about you not posting on the TBI board? WTF?? you too good for that you yuppie? in case you were wondering, your **** DOES stink. go to hell.
That post was Completely Uncalled for, and Only demonstrated Why we have an overall Poor impression of the TBI board.
You asked a Simple Question, and Ed Gave a Complex answer, Why ? Because its not a Simple Problem.
He gave you and everyone else here a In depth Explination of why the Crossfire system is Inherantly Flawed. Just because You, Or anyone else with No experiance or understanding of the system, Dosent agree with that dosent mean its Not the Case.
There are Several People On this board and Numerous others out in the world Who have decided that, Despite its inherant Flaws, They want to try to make it fast.
Ask them Is it better than TPI, they will Tell you No. They know its inherantly flawed, and are trying to Get as Much out of it as they can. These guys know what htey are doing, what they are working with, and what they're up against. They also have differnt Goals than the rest of us. Im not out to Make a Crossfire car fast, Im out to Make My Car Fast... regardless of what induction I use. For some of these guys, Its Differnt than that.
But For the rest of Us Who don't feel like Burdening ourselves with the Hassles and Roadblocks of the CFI system, there are plenty of Perfectly viable, much more rewarding induction Options.
So you asked "Whats Wrong with Crossfire Injection?"
Ed Answerd you In more Detail than You deserve. Your Complete and Utter Disregard for all the Valuable information In his post And Your Apparant Know-it-all Attitude Is why You will always be a 15 second warrior.
Rock The ******.
EDIT: I just thought I would Look and see after making this post, just out of curiosity... and What do ya know, your Car IS TBI.
Who woulda Thunk ?
Last edited by Bort62; 07-24-2002 at 02:30 PM.
07-24-2002, 02:48 PM
#27
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Car: 82 Z-28
Engine: 383 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
I've been running a stock CFI system for 18 years and over 240K miles.
It has never left me stranded.
Never had to replace anything having to do with the CFI system except a CTS.
Injectors have never been cleaned.
Bottom end torque is quite adaquate and sufficient to pull a ski boat around with.
The cold air induction is the slickest/simplest set-up I've ever seen.
The eng doesn't make a lot of top end power, but it is quite streetable.
In my experiemce with CFI, it's extremely reliable.
It has never left me stranded.
Never had to replace anything having to do with the CFI system except a CTS.
Injectors have never been cleaned.
Bottom end torque is quite adaquate and sufficient to pull a ski boat around with.
The cold air induction is the slickest/simplest set-up I've ever seen.
The eng doesn't make a lot of top end power, but it is quite streetable.
In my experiemce with CFI, it's extremely reliable.
07-24-2002, 07:34 PM
#28
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how can you tell me i have a know it all attitude? if i did know it all, would i be all over the boards asking q's and trying to find advice? so what if my car is TBI? you dont have a single clue about whats getting ready to be dropped in, do you? so what if i was keeping the TBI? would that matter?
07-24-2002, 09:01 PM
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you dont have a single clue about whats getting ready to be dropped in, do you? so what if i was keeping the TBI? would that matter?
And My dad Can Beat up Your Dad ? Whats your Point ?
Now Pipe Down or I am telling Teacher.
07-24-2002, 09:20 PM
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and you call me childish? what is it with you and this fixation on fatherly figures? were you abused? you should seek psychiatric help instead of being on this board and picking crabs off your ***** in your spare time.
07-25-2002, 09:02 AM
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Car: 2002 SOM z28
Engine: LS1
Transmission: T-56
Originally posted by Nasty_Bird_'90
so what if i was keeping the TBI? would that matter?
so what if i was keeping the TBI? would that matter?
As for your attack on Ed, I know he is an *******, but what you wrote was uncalled for IMO. Beyond that, I'm surprised this has remained such a civil post on this topic
07-25-2002, 09:27 AM
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Car: 4
Engine: 6
Transmission: 5
It's funny how this type of post always goes. You can almost tell at the outset that the original poster isn't looking for facts and figures and the results of experience; rather, he's looking for somebidy to agree with and validate whatever it is he already thinks. The reasons the TBI thing gets mentioned in the same breath with this are (1) CFI is TBI in its crudest, most ungainly, least capable form; and (2) this same attitude pervades most of the TB posts, particularly ones from people who have never had anything better on their V8 than TBI, and so don't know what they're missing.
Personal attacks on other board posters won't make your own car one millisecond faster. Asking a question like "what's wrong with..." is obvious flame bait, and some people just can't resist the temptation. Ed brought up most of the reasons that TBI in general and CFI in particular are so extremey limiting to performance uses, unfortunately he was a bit confrontational, but the facts remain the same no matter how he states them. If the truth hurts, maybe the answer is to learn and grow, rather than getting your panties all in a wad over it.
Personal attacks on other board posters won't make your own car one millisecond faster. Asking a question like "what's wrong with..." is obvious flame bait, and some people just can't resist the temptation. Ed brought up most of the reasons that TBI in general and CFI in particular are so extremey limiting to performance uses, unfortunately he was a bit confrontational, but the facts remain the same no matter how he states them. If the truth hurts, maybe the answer is to learn and grow, rather than getting your panties all in a wad over it.
07-25-2002, 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by Nasty_Bird_'90
and you call me childish? what is it with you and this fixation on fatherly figures? were you abused? you should seek psychiatric help instead of being on this board and picking crabs off your ***** in your spare time.
and you call me childish? what is it with you and this fixation on fatherly figures? were you abused? you should seek psychiatric help instead of being on this board and picking crabs off your ***** in your spare time.
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