Thats it! Im putting a 350 on the credit card. Im tired of my 305. So I found a decent one for a reasonable price. I currently have the 305 tbi 87 and up block yada yada. Im wondering how much extra its going to end up costing me before I actually get the car running. You know, anything that wont swap over. Im assuming that Im going to have to get a chip for my computer also. Anything else that you guys can think of??? Thanx

 

On the credit card, huh? How much are you willing to spend? I did a 305 to 350HO swap a couple of months ago for about $3000 ($2100 for the GM Performance 350). EVERYTHING swaped over from my LO3 with the exception of a new TBI to Vortec intake.
Oh yah, I'm still using my stock chip with no problems...but a custom one would be nice...

 

Well Im just wanting basically a mild stock 350. I dont want to spend more than $1500 if possible. I can do other crap later on.

 

Do you have the LO3 305 TBI now? Because it took getting a good 350 for me to realy appreciate my 305. It was never beast of an engine, but it did respond well to easy bolt-on mods.
Have you checked out the Mr. Goodwrench replacement 350's. I've heard a lot of good things about them, and the're a lot cheaper than GM Performance motors.

 

I havent heard of those. I will look into that though. You know people usually jump on the subject of a 350. I currently have another 305 that I could put in but I really would prefer a 350. Well I appreciate your input

 

I have the Goodwrench 350 and it's far from performance engine. First off it won't be too much faster than your 305.
The cam in it is horrible 390/410, which I just switched out. The heads aren't the best, but are meaty and can be ported to flow very well.
Also, the block is a pre '86 so you'll need a new flywheel which is a little over $100 I think.

The engine for its price isn't too bad $1290 with a 3yr/50k warranty, all new 4 bolt main block.

Swapping cams isn't going to help the warranty though.

 

Mark, how ya been buddy? Yeah I know the 350 wont give me much more power but Im wanting it for the mods I plan on doing later. If I get the energy to clean up my 305 and put a carb on it, I know I would be pushing 250 horses with it, which is a lot better than the 180 or so I have now. Im just sick of getting barely outrun by all my buddies. My other 305 block is a 79. Mark, do you know what you run in the quater with that 350?

 

With the stock cam, headers, stock cat-back, and 2:73s = 15.41 and a slipping tranny.
With Hooker cat-back and 3:73 posi = 15.32 slipping tranny

I just did a cam swap, new intake, and gear drive. Have to readj the rockers before I can drive it, but I'm hopin for low 14s. I'll let youu know when I G-Tech it.

 

mark that is sick, i hope the cam helps it out a lot,

slow stang,

car in signature used to be a v6,

i got the engine and trans, from a junk car, rebuilt them, put the carb intake on it along with the little stuff, hoses, fluid etc.. and was driving it out of the shop for about $2200, about 6 months later, we added the exhuast, ~$375, the next fall, did gears, $500
that equals, about $3100, granted, i had a couple friends in the right places, but i didn't save a whole lot,

now i'm gonna put a t5 in it, i shoulda done it the first time around, it woulda save me the $700 i paid for my 700r4, but it going to cost about another $400, to get the t5 in, that includes all parts

don't knock the 305 just cuz its a 305, they can make good power, granted a 350 with similar mods, will smoke the 305

 

1500? Why dont you just hop up the 305? If I were to put a 350 in my car I would rip out all that computer junk! Just got with a carb. If you want to go faster for cheaper there is where its at.

 

I see everyones point. Im not knocking the 305 I just dont know anything about it. Its a bunch of parts from different years and Im scared that it wont work. And my current engine has 210,000 miles. I dont want to waste money rebuilding it. If I could run 14s I would be very happy. I wish I knew someone who could 100% tell me if that engine will work or not. I think it will but I will probably HAVE to go to carb (which is fine with me) because of the year of the block. The cam is a little rusted so Im thinking about buying a new one instead of cleaning it. The engine is a double roller. I might throw on some vortec heads also. What do you guys think? I dont care what the engine is as long as I can take my friends 5.0 stang. A little rust shouldnt hurt the engine I wouldnt think. Its not rusted that bad at all.

 

I'm currious, why is it that when someone wants more power people recomend dumping the fuel injection for a carb?
Carbs are great for simplicity but not exactly hassle free. Maybe it's just me, but don't you carb guys ever get tired of letting your cars warm-up, adjusting the idle mixture, and other tunning?

I have several older carbed vehicles and there great, but it's nice to be able to let a computer do all the tunning work. I'm far from a carb expert, but in my experience as a mechanic I have not found anything that can surpass the reliability of TBI! Not MPI, TPI, electronic carbs, or ultra simple Preditors.

Is it the worry of hooking up all those wires? Or the problem with finding out which sensors must be changed to accomidate an engine swap? Older 350's lend themselves well to TBI even with bumpy cams and first gen blocks. As for price, with a little inginuity EVERYTHING from an LO3 can be made to run a 350, I know, I've done it. That's not saying there are some parts that should be changed.

 

Check out this engine:
http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...id=128&pid=105

It's a Goodwrench 350 for later years, everything on your engine should bolt up. I have different intake, but I'll be taking mine down to the track on the 23rd to see how it runs.

 

Thats not bad but Ive seen cheaper prices. I'd like to get the engine for around $900 and then spend a little more on the other odds and ends that I will need. What sucks is that I cant use my 305 for the core charge on a 350.

 

so go to a junkyard and see what they want for a 350, if it will save part of of your core charge, get and use it for core, or get a junkyard 350 and rebuild it or have it rebuilt.

 

personally I would look for a 350 core at a junkyard or better yet go buy a rebuilt core from a machine shop
they are cheap around heree ($900cdn) and then buy some cheap 350 heads, a cam, intake, and have a decent motor for a lot less.

 

I would prefer to buy an engine that is already built and has a warranty but I guess what ever is the most feesable. I would have to find someone with the tools and knowledge. This is my only car and Im not going to LEARN on my daily car.

 

People recommend swapping From TBI to Carb because Carb systems make more power than GM's TBI (so does TPI) plain and simple. The TBI'ers will deny this but its true. The ONLY thing that TBI does good is get good MPG other than that .. :nono:

What other Tuning? I run a Holley 750 with no choke horn and I havent had to touch my carb in over a year and that was just to retune it after a cam change. My idle mixtures stay where I set them at and I let all my car warm of for a couple of minutes anyway carbed or not. All of this constant tuning and Reliabilty crap or wives tales from people that dont know much about carbs.

Secondly are Carb is more reliable than TBI , no injectors to fail or leak , no computer to quit working and no sensors to fail. The only thing on my carb that could leave me stranded would be one of the floats(very rare) ,and even then I could fix it withing 5 minutes . I have had carb on different cars for the last 13 years and I have NEVER been stranded because of one.

 

OK, Now guys........Lets all get along Evil T/A, you made some great points and I agree with a lot of them. So Im saying right now that this wont turn into an argument. Everyone has there opinions and thats fine. Honestly if I get this 305 cleaned up Im going to switch it to carbed because I dont want to have to deal with all the diagnostics bull$hit. I dont have the time or experience. Most of my buddies are carb gooroos anyways. Im just wanting to know what to get. Ive got a 305 block with performance pistons that should be fine. Now WILL ANY 305 BLOCK work for my 89 camaro? All 305 are pretty much the same right? Hmmm.

 

 

Things are more interesting with a little lively discusion...

evil t/a,
I must need some carb tuning lessons...my Holley two barrel on my '78 Jeep has been giving me fits every time I go off-road, and my Thermoquad on my Chrysler needs adjustment if the outside temp varies more than 10 degrees. Like I said, I'm no carb expert. All those little screws scare me more than any amount of sensors and black boxes. And by the way, what's the best kind of choke: electronic, vacuum, manua, heatriser style, or what?

SlowStangEater,
'85 and earlier, one piece main seal; '86 and up, two piece main seal. You'll need the corresponding flexplate. Are you going to use your 305? If so, how about some good heads, maybe milled Vortec or S/R Torquer.

 

If I can use the 305 I might as well. Its already paid for and its a long block but Im going to go for a new cam and heads definently! Whats this 1 piece main seal? I dont know too much about that stuff. I will have to switch to carb im thinking.

 

Can I have your TBI?

Rear one piece main seal-bad, two piece seal-good; at least it can be changed a lot easier. Between '85 and '86 GM updated their small blocks. That's when we got TBI, TPI, and a few design changes like center bolt valve covers and a less leaky, easier to change two piece rear seal. I'm pretty sure the flex plates aren't interchangable between engine years (pre '86 or post '86).

What's wrong with your original 305? Are swapping one 305 for another?

 

Huh?

The one-piece is the newer design, with the metal-clad seal in the housing that bolts onto the back of the engine instead of the 2 pieces of seal material installed in a groove in the block and cap requiring removing the oil pan and and rear main bearing cap to replace it.

The bolt pattern on the back of the crank is different; the newer one-piece design has a much smaller flange. So the flywheel / flex plate for them is different.

I have to agree with the TBI vs. carb comments; I went through a friend's hell of trying to get TBI to work in his 350 truck, finally he put a 400 in it, experienced severe fuel starvation because the TBI injectors simply don't flow more than about 300 HP of fuel no matter what you do to them or what injectors you put on the TB, so he got a Holley 4-barrel one with Chrysler injectors which was equally a POS, when we finally put a port injection system (NOT TPI) on it we finally got some power out of it... so we took the Holley unit out in my yard and pulverized it to shrapnel with a huge earthworking tool, very therapeutic I must say.

The problem with the 305 in general is that the bore is so small that there isn't room for large valves to open without hitting the deck, and even if they miss the deck, they're so closes to the cylinder wall that no air can go around that whole half of the intake valve. That's not to say it can't be made to run well, just that you bump into a ceiling there's no escape from. The 350 has so much larger of a bore that it's not a problem.

 

Brain cramp, confused seal styles.

They wont flow over 300hp? Is this an absolute? I've found that the larger the injectors I use, the more I gain up top. And fuel economy increases drasticaly with larger injectors too. After 4000 grand things seem to just level off. Can't I just jack up the fuel pressure?

 

My original 305 has 210,000 miles on it. It runs fine but Its just old. I have a new 305 that needs a minimal amount of work. If I cant sell the combo then I will just put it in I guess.
BUT SOMEONE PLEASE GIVE ME A DEFINITE ANSWER ON THIS>>>>>>>> I have a 79 block 305 waiting to be dropped in. So the dipstick is on the drivers side of the block. Will this clear everything including the drive shaft? Ive been told yes and no so someone please clear this up?

 

Can't you just measure where the dipstick is and compare to your current block? The only thing that would seem to be in the way is the exhaust manifolds. Confusious say: "with enough careful planning and checking any engine swap is possible."

 

i would say you will prolly be ok, if nothing else, that dipstick tube will bend pretty easy, if it needs to be tweaked, i had to bend mine a little, for my headers, (mine is pass. side) and before someone chimes in that it will throw off the full oil level, by bending the dipstick, its not gonna change enough to worry about, and when i will mine, i give it the benifit of the doubt and give it a little extra

 

Well it sounds possible so thats a little more comforting.

 

It has nothing whatsoever to do with the driveshaft.

The driver's side dipstick into the block absolutely will not work by any means whatsoever, if you continue to use the stock exhaust manifolds. But then, if you use those, you likely won't be able to tell that you swapped motors anyway. On the other hand, if you get the oil pan that came with the Malibu motor, it may very well have the dipstick that goes into the driver's side of the pan; and if you use that pan, that system will work with manifolds. Either scheme will work with headers.

You will have to change your flex plate or flywheel, to one for the 2-piece RMS crank design. If you use the stock 79 heads (I hope not) then your valve covers and intake will not work, you'll have to use perimiter-bolt VCs and an intake with the center 2 holes on each side perpendicular to the head surface; on the other hand, if you use your 305 heads (I really hope not) then you won't be able to tell any difference from the 305 because the heads are so bad. Other than those 4 things, it's a bolt-in.

 

Well I plan on getting new heads and a new cam. Im most likely going to switch to Carb also. Hell I might as well get a 383 with as much as Im going to end up spending anyways I guess its time to weigh my options and see.