OK, I've got BIG problems!! First, yes the timing is set perfect. With that out of the way, here's what's happening. When I first started cranking the motor over, it sounded like and felt like it had NO compression (sounded like the starter wasn't hitting the flywheel, even though it was spinning the motor/accessories) and it was pouring gas out of the driver side header! So, me and a buddy of mine figured that the brand new speed-pro hyd. roller lifters were not pumped up and the valves (that were set exactly like comp recommeded), were too tight. So, we lighty loosened the rockers on the driver side and then we now had compression! When the starter cranked the motor over, it now sounded like it was supposed to. Also, we checked all the spark plugs (out of head but still attached to the wire) and we had plenty of spark. Then, we checked fuel pressure with a fuel pressure tester attached to the schrader valve located on the fuel rail. I turned the key on the ON position to engage the fuel pump and adjusted the regulator up until the gauge would spike to 40lbs and then start to bleed off (I did this with the vaccum line off of the regulator). Then I tried to crank it up. It sounded like it was going to start, then it backfired causing a fire inside of the driver side header collector. (I quickly put it out with a fire extinguisher). Still pissing gas out of the driver side header, while the passenger header is bone dry. I soaked up all the gas in the header collector and adjusted the regulator WAY down (it now read 15lbs.) I cranked it again and it fired up! Loud as hell, it ran for 5 seconds then I shut it down. There is gas in the oil, you can smell it bad, but the dipstick only showed it to be a little over full. I then pulled the coil wire off and cranked on the motor for 10 seconds or so. More gas now dripping out of the driver side header, just not as bad. Passenger side, still bone dry. I didn't crank on it anymore after that. I drained the oil, flushed the motor with a couple of quarts, and gave it a new oil filter and 5 fresh quarts of oil. So, now I'm going to re-prime the oil pump and hopefully get the lifters to pump up/prime but before I crank it up, why is the driver side pouring so much gas out of the header when the passenger side is dry? Is it the Holley adjustable fuel regulator? Is it the valves just not set right and maybe the lifters are bottoming out causing the valves to not fully close? I do have a brand new stock fuel pressure regulator, but if it is not a regulator problem, I'd rather keep the Holley on there. I'm not sure if it is an injector problem, because they worked fine on the stock motor (that was with the stock regulator though) and they didn't get damaged at all, they just sat attached to the fuel rails until I installed them with the fuel rails onto the new intake (I was very carefull and I gave them new O-rings). Am I going to have to take the thermostat out and put water in the block (or can I get away with out doing that?) cause I forgot to do that when I intalled the thermostat and water neck. I just don't understand why the driver side is getting SO flooded when the passenger is not????? ANY help would be GREATLY appreciated for I am stumped!!

Thank you guys in advance for reading this long post and hopefully offering me some advice, the advice is MUCH needed!

Thanks again,
Mike (1bad91Z)

 

Quote:

. I turned the key on the ON position to engage the fuel pump and adjusted the regulator up until the gauge would spike to 40lbs and then start to bleed off (I did this with the vaccum line off of the regulator).

I'm a little confused here, did you check the pressure with the car off? The pressure would bleed off after the line was primed but the car was not running? It shouldnt do that. I suspect that you've got a bad injector on one cylinder, which is spewing out fuel. That would explain the fuel coming out the header, and the backfiring as well. Prime the line with the gauge attached (dont start the car), and watch how fast the pressure drops. Your pressure ought to hold at 40 psi for at least 15 minutes. If it drops you've either got a leaky injector or a bad fuel pressure regulator. If it is dropping, get some vice grips or channel locks and pinch off the fuel return line, and see if it stops dropping. If it then stops, the pressure regulator is bad. If it keeps on droppping, then you've got a leaky injector. To locate the injector, prime the line, let it bleed down, then take a look at all the spark plugs on the suspect side of the motor. Whichever plug is fuel drenched has your leaky injector.

 

yep i'd suspect a bad injector too

 

All of the plugs were wet on the driver side. I tested fuel pressure with the car off, then turning the key to the on position, just enough to kick the fuel pump on. It spiked to 40lbs then slowly started to bleed down a little and very slowly. The car was not running. The car didn't actually start until I adjusted the regulator WAY down and I tested the fuel pressure again they same way as mentioned above. The car started when I adjusted the regulator down to 15lbs. It still pissed a little gas out of the driver side header, just not as bad.



What do you guys think?

Mike (1bad91Z)

 

Sounds like one or more injectors are stuck open.

You can diagnose by unbolting the fuel rail, leaving the injectors clipped into the rail logs, and turning the key to RUN but not cranking the engine. The 2sec fuel pump run the ECM does to prime the rails will spew gas out of whichever injectors are stuck.

Safety precautions are needed...be careful. If in doubt, just pull all 8 injectors and send to Cruzin Performance for testing.

In the meantime, drain out the contaminated oil and do an oil + filter change.

 

All of your talk about the valve lash sure has me worried.... I would go ahead and run through the adjustments again to be absolutely sure they are right. Like this:

Go to #1 TDC (verify with the rotor and balancer). Adjust these valves:

Exhaust: 1, 3, 4, 8
Intake: 1, 2, 5, 7

Rotate the crank one full turn to #6 TDC. Adjust these valves:

Exhaust: 2, 5, 6, 7
Intake: 3, 4, 6, 8

Rocker nuts (or poly-locks) should be turned between 1/4 to 1 full turn past zero lash (the less the better but some preload is in order - people tend to do them different amounts).

If you did it any other way, I would go back through them just to be safe.

Now, with that locked down, I am wondering what is going on with the fuel pressure. If you had it set at 15psi on your gage and the engine ran, their is something wrong. At 15 psi the injector probably won't fire at all and if it does, it will pi$$ a little fuel out - not atomize the proper amount of fuel to get the engine to run. The PROM is telling the ECM that the injectors are a certain size and it will fire them accordingly, but it is depending on a certain fuel rail pressure (probably at least 44psi) so that the proper amount of fuel is delivered. So if you only have 15psi, there would be problems. I would try another gage to verify this condition. But there should be no difference in the Holley one and the OEM one aside from adjustability.

If your pressure is dropping instantly after the pump shuts off, something is allowing that to happen. Sounds like an injector at this point. But what all did you do to the car? As in what is the project and what all have you had apart?

I know you say the timing is set perfect, but exactly how do you know this? Especially if the engine has only run for 5 seconds.

Matt

 

To answer and ask a couple of couple questions, I got the car running. What all was done to the car is the entire new motor combo listed in my sig. All valves are now set to zero lash (they were zero lash + half turn. The car fires right up, sounds great, idles nice at 800 rpms, but still have some problems. While the car is running, it's still leaking a little gas out of the driver side header. I think it's the stock 140,000 mile injectors that have been sitting for a few months, so they were dry for awhile! I think the injectors are pulsing, then getting stuck open for a bit randomly. So, I'm going to get new 24lb SVO injectors. Next question is, after draining 15 quarts of gas/oil out of the oil pan, I changed the oil/filter, and started to prime the oil again. I primed it for 10 minutes, the oil press guage showed 45 lbs. and still, I couldn't get oil to come out of the rockers on either side!! Another question....are the SVO 24 lb injectors taller than the stock 22lb chevy injectors? And, finally, I installed a new rear main seal along with the whole rear main seal adapter onto the new motor before I dropped it in and now after the motor running, I have a rear main seal leak!! Could the gas/oil mix have ate away at the new seal and now it's bad? And again, any advice is greatly appreciated!

Mike (1bad91Z)

 

You normally won't get oil up to the heads unless the engine is spinning, so no worries there.

Ditch your injectors, the blue SVOs fit fine when I swapped a while back. They're not taller, it's just that the retainer ring groove is farther up on the injector body...this puts the injector lower into the intake bung. Some people have inserted a washer between each fuel rail bolt and the intake base to move things up a bit, wasn't needed for mine.

Gas won't likely damage the rear main seal by itself. If you're positive you got all the old oil + gas out, could likely be that last little bit of thinned oil working it's way past the seal. If this is the case, it will stop on it's own.

 

Thanks KevinC! I think I'm going to take the fuel rail and injectors off of the intake then hook it back upto the fuel lines, then turn the key on and see what injector(s) is staying open. Then, I will install the new injectors in the rails and try the same thing. If the old ones squirt, then I know what ones are sticking. If any of the new ones squirt, then I know it's electrical and not mechanical injector failure. The motor only ran for a 10 seconds with oily gas then I shut it off, I dont think that would be enough to do damage. The oil has been changed right after that. I'm not going to fire up the motor again until I fix the fuel problem. One I solve that, I'm going to change the oil again, look for exact location of oil leak and then fix that. I have a one peice rear main and a one piece thick rubber oil pan gasket (no silicone required) even though it doesnt need it, I used silicone on all four corners like the machine shop recommended. Summit said I should have the new 24 lb. SVO injectors by Friday.

If my chip is custom burned for 22lb. injectors and I switch to a 24, would adjusting the fuel pressure down some be ok to run it like that or will I still be running very rich? I will end up sending the chip back for recalibration of the injector constant in the PROM, but I hope it will work for now until I get all of the mechanical bugs worked out!

Mike (1bad91Z)

 

Oh yeah, it will still run for sure with the injector constant off a little. It would have to be pretty far off to not run. It will definately run a bit richer like that, but you can compensate a little, as you suspect, byt dropping the rail pressure a little bit. I wouldn't go under about 40psi though. And this is all assuming it is a temporary thing to just get it going.

I also share your views on the lower end. Pretty hard to hurt it with the small amount of time you have had it running - and with no load to boot. Kevin's got a good theory on the rear main too.... But that isn't to say it really isn't leaking as some just don't seal right from the get go for one reason or another. You can hose that area down with some brake cleaner and keep an eye on it and see if it goes away or see where exactly it is coming from.

Also, my 30# SVOs (purchased a little over a year ago) were actually a bit shorter in overall length than the GM 22# injectors that were in it. But they exhibited the same ring land placement as what Kevin talks about and they fit fine with no changes to the mounting of the fuel rails. Maybe SVO has changed their design recently or maybe the 30s and 24s are different in their outer casing design.

Good luck to ya,
Matt

 

Thanks Matt, I'm still tinkering arround with the new setup! The new 24 svo's will be here friday and I'm praying that they will fix the fueling problem!!

Mike (1bad91Z)