Hi there, I am a new user here and I find this site very informative. I have a 1989 Chevy Camaro IROC-Z with a 5.7L TPI V8 in it. Almost a week ago my car started having this problem.

When I try to start the car she will not start. The battery is real strong. She just cranks and wont start.... after several tries I started to feel that she is trying to start and finally with more tries she will finally start and idle like she always does. Every day I almost had to spend almost 10 min to 15 min to start her up.

Finally I had a tune up done on it. This is what we did. SparkPlugs (AC Delcos), Wires, Cap/Rotor, Fuel Filter, Air Cleaner, Oil Change.

After doing all this she did started normal for the whole day. The next day did the same thing but started with in 3 to 4 mins. The day after that same thing... now she starts after 10 mins to 15 mins again after trying on and off.

Only upgrade done on her is a set of headers and roller rockers ( i found out when we removed the valve cover ). After she starts up she will not stall out and shut off and she runs as good as she always does....

The fuel pressure is perfect. And one more thing, before she actually starts after trying several times I feel that a little fuel (may be) coming in as she is trying trying trying before she finally does....

The only thing i am thinking of at this point would be Fuel Pump or the Fuel Pump relay ???? I am not a mechanic....

Is there any one out there who had similar problems?? I would greatly appreciate any suggestions.

You guys would be a great help to me.

Here are a couple of pictures of my engine compartment.

http://a8.cpimg.com/image/E6/07/1458...-028001E0-.jpg

http://a2.cpimg.com/image/EA/07/1458...-028001E0-.jpg

http://a8.cpimg.com/image/F0/07/1458...-028001E0-.jpg

 

Did you ever watch your fuel pressure after the motor is turned off?

 

I'll check the fuel pressure after the motor is shut off..... but tell me more of what am i looking for ....

The car for sure is not getting too much fuel it is getting less fuel. The car was shut off for 3 days and did the same time when it was trying to start.....

Thanks.

 

Does white (I think it's white) smoke shoot out of your exhaust when you first start it or under hard acceleration? If so, it sounds like your valve-stem seals might be shot, allowing oil to leak past the valve and ultimately foul-up your spark plugs (if they are in fact fouled). I know that I had the exact same problem with my IROC--it would be a pain to start after it had been off for a while (i.e. overnight) because the oil had time to cover the plugs. After it would heat up, it would burn the oil off and the problem would be "gone" until oil had the time to collect again.

That's what happened to me, anyway. You might want to pull a few plugs after letting it sit overnight just to make sure that they're not fouled (especially if your engine has a lot of miles on it).

 

Welcome to thrdgen.org.

I'm kinda inclined to think your problem isn't fuel pressure related since you say the car runs fine once started...even if the FP or relay were bad, it wouldn't take but 5-10 seconds of cranking before the oil pressure switch would energize the pump.

Could still be in the ignition, possibly pickup coil or module, and may also be something in the MAF circuit or IAC...but instead of guessing I think I'd first pull the codes from the ECM.

There's "how to" on the main page in the tech articles, basically using a paperclip and counting the SES light flashes, gives the codes that are stored in the ECM....keep in mind just because(i/e) a certain code comes up, doesn't mean that sensor is bad, but it will help diag the problem more efficiently.

 

Hi Mike. I did the reading on the service engine soon light and here it what comes up.

code 12
code 15
code 44
code 14




12. No reference pulses to Electronic Control Module (ECM).

15. Low temperature indicated at engine coolant temp. sensor

44. Oxygen sensor lean

14. High temperature indicated at engine coolant temp. sensor

Please note that sometimes all of a sudden the car would start like there is nothing wrong with it.

I am so confused....

 

You've got some conflicting codes there. I'd suggest that you disconnect your battery, replace the coolant temp sensor in the front of your intake manifold, and start the car up. It's a cheap sensor, the only problem will be getting it out if it's stuck in the good. Then check again for codes in a bit. The o2 sensor has nothing to do with starting, but it may be old and need replacement soon.

 

I just took the battery off and turned the car on. Let it run for a little while and these are the codes came back.


12. No reference pulses to Electronic Control Module (ECM).

15. Low temperature indicated at engine coolant temp. sensor

44. Oxygen sensor lean


the code 14 did not appear.

The car does not smoke at all when it starts..... ( even when it takes a long time for it to finally start ).

When the car does start it idles good and seems like nothing wrong with it... till u shut if off and try to restart.

The car would do this any time.. while it is cold or hot... dont matter.

Thanks Guys !

 

Danny (got your email, but I can't send these days for some E-link problem...)

Code 12 is normal with key on/engine off.

Code 44 is probably occurring, because of the temps the ECM is trying to compensate for via the CTS (Coolant Temp Sensor)...and that's where the code 15/14 pop up.

Since the (IIRC) code 44 will only set if the ECM is in closed loop...and since when you start the car you're not in closed loop yet, could be the CTS or connection on the CTS is probably the problem...since at start up, the CTS is monitored as well for fuel. Code 44 could also be due to you running headers...may be you have a leak, or something else.

The CTS you want to look at (connection too) is at the front of the intake manifold, under the Tstat housing...if memory serves, it sticks out toward the radiator and will be a single wire connector.

Do you have an ohm meter?

 

"code 15.. denotes and open CTS circuit. When the computer sees more than about 4.8 volts on the yellow wire to the CTS, a code 15 will be set providing the engine has been running for a minute or so. This voltage can occur as a result of an open circuit anywhere in the CTS circuit. As in code 14, this fault will affect the accuracy of fuel delivery, timing, radiator fan, torque converter clutch and idle air control systems"

Also to note, 8Mike9, I believe you're thinking of the temp gauge sender, that is one wire. The CTS is as where you say but, to the left of the t-stat housing and it (typically on TPI) has a yellow and a black wire going to it. It is next to the thermo time switch (where applicable) which has a light purple and a tan wire going to it.

I'm having to agree with checking/replacing the CTS as well and going from there if the problem persist.

On another side note.. I've used the delco plugs once..... for a day....
Very nice looking engine bay too btw

 

Could possibly be the ignition module. If you remove your distributor cap, you will see a little black module with 2 screws holding it to the distributor base. Unplug the 3 wire connectors from it, remove it and take it to your local autozone or equivalent auot parts store, and have them test it. If thats not the problem, no big deal, you havent spent any money.

 

Yeah, been a while since I had my intake apart, didn't recall if it had one or two wires for the CTS.

 

replace the CTS sensor. (Picture Courtesy Of Vader)





it's the one on the right. the smaller one.
the one on the left is for the cold start injector.