I am new here as you can see just looking for a little knowledge
I plan to get it dynoed in the next couple of weeks just wanting to see what everyone else thinks
and if anyone else has a 400ci with TPI on it
I think I posted this in the wrong section the first time ....
thanks

The car has a custom built 400ci motor. The motor was built by MPG Race engines in Highland Park IL (847)432-2887. Here are the specs on the motor: CHEVY BOWTIE SMALL BLOCK, 4-BOLT SPLAYED MAINS 4.125 BORE 9.005 DECK ** BOTTOM END STUD KIT ** COLA FORGED CRANKSHAFT ** MANLEY STEEL CONNECTING RODS (4340 ALLOY) 5.85 ** ARIAS FORGED PISTONS (9.8:1 COMPRESSION) ** C & A ZGS PISTON RINGS ** C & A ENGINE BEARINGS ** HAMBURGER 7 QUART OIL PAN ** OIL PUMP (MANLEY) ** THRUST ASSEMBLY FOR HYDRAULIC ROLLER CAM ** COMP CAMS HYDRAULIC ROLLER 3119 / 3111 -HR14 ** 114 DEGREE LOBE SEPARATION, 110 DEGREE INTAKE CENTERLINE i.e. 4 DEGREE ADV. ** COMP CAMS 1.5:1 STAINLESS STEEL ROLLER ROCKERS ** BRODIX FSH-8 INTAKE RUNNER VOLUME 198cc APROX. (225 cfm INT, 165 cfm EXH.) ** MANLEY STAINLESS STEEL VALVES 2.055 AND 1.60 SEVERE DUTY ** TILTON STARTER ** HARMONIC BALANCER (SFI APPROVED) FLUID DAMPENER ** ENGINE MOUNTS (LIQUID TYPE LIKE LEXUS WITH WINE GLASSES AT 100 MPH) ** HEADERS (HOOKER CERAMIC COATED) 1 3/4in. SUPER COMP ** RADIATOR 5 CORE ** TWO 14in. ELECTRIC COOLING FANS ** 4L80E OVERDRIVE TRANSMISSION WITH HIGH STALL CONVERTER ** BLACK PAINT ENGINE ** 1989 CORVETTE TPI SYSTEM (SPEED DENSITY TYPE) EXTERNAL COIL HEI DISTRIBUTOR, O2 AND KNOCK SENSORS, PORTED PLENUM AND INTAKE MANIFOLD. ** 52MM THROTTLE BODY ** 24 LB/HR FUEL INJECTORS ** ACCEL POWER PROCESSOR W/ CALMAP ** WIRE HARNESS - HOWELL INDUSTRIES MODIFIED 1991 GM TRUCK HARNESS TBI TO TPI ** ACCEL FUEL PUMP 74702 720HP ** K & N AIR FILTER ** MSD 6AL IGNITION SYSTEM ** FORD 9”**RICHMOND 4:10 GEAR ** DISK BREAKS ALL 4 TIRES ** GAS TANK HAD A CUSTOM SUMP INSTALLED AND TEFLON COATED

The injectors are svo 24#'s, heads are brodix aluminum, the intake is off a 89 vette it has larger runners and has been ported and polished, and the cam is 224 int & 230 exh @ .050, and .550 lift intake & .575 lift exhaust

Wondering what this thing would make on the dyno
or at the track
any ideas?
it weighs about 4200 lbs with me in the car
81 Firebird

 

I dont know much at all about TPI, but with that engine, i dont think that your best choice is the TPI setup. I dont think it will flow enough to let the engine breath. But like i said, i have very little knowledge of the TPI.

 

I agree that the TPI setup you have may not be enough to let the engine breath. I would haZard a guess that your engine would put out at least 350HP/400TQ. That's a guess based off of similarly configured engines and what they are rated at. If you really want to realize the potential of your engine I would bail on the Corvette TPI system and go with an aftermarket setup like the Stealth Ram. They are way ahead of the factory TPI system in design and performance.

 

thanks guys!
anymore guesses?
anyone with a similar combo?

 

600-650 HP with a carb and an appropriate single plane intake.

275-325 HP with TPI if it runs at all.

A race-built motor like that and TPI are about as drastic a mismatch as you can dreate. You might as well go get the carb and intake off a 305 2-barrel, something like that would be about the only worse possible combination.

 

i'd guess around 360rwhp and 430 ftlbs of torque. not only is it quite a mismatch, but where did you find a speed density type 89 corvette tpi set up with external coil? either way, sounds like someone know's how to spend money, but that's about it.

 

If you want to keep fuel injection or keep it emissions legal depending on how strict your emissions are in your area you should go with a stealram or other aftermarket EFI setup. Trust me you'll notice a huge difference.

 

Sounds like the previous owner poured a pile of money into it. Who was it, a drug dealer or something?

 

Geez, when did spending money on your engine become open season for flames?

 

It's just laughable how badly mismatched that combo is, in terms of bottom end vs. induction. It's a 600 HP bottom end and heads, with a 240 HP induction choking it. No flames, just derision.

 

I can see that, as a lot of us who've been around here and know about TPI's limitations.

But even so, by the post count of the original poster, he hasn't been around here very long, so we shouldn't ridicule him on his induction choice, just point him in the right directions.

The thing is, it appears he's converting a TBI to TPI and just made the assumption TPI would be the best setup...heck, I'd never heard of a mini-ram, SuperRam, etc, until I found this site.

Also, I wasn't pointing out your reply, just the snipes about the money.

Seems there's a lot of members on this board who like to take shots at those who spend a lot of money.

 

I bought this car that way for 5k
this motor was totally done 10 years ago and has had 1000 miles on it since
that is why it doesn't have anything new as in induction

so what would be the general consensus for a new intake which EFI intake should I get
Super Ram?
Mini Ram?
Stealth Ram?

 

I have PRO-FLO 1000CFM EFI from edelbrock and have had good results with it, I have a moderatly large cam and have no drivabatly problems, it comes with a hand held programmer wich controles fuel, spark, idle and a bunch of other variables. I also gained allot of power over a 750 edelbrock carb. the only problem I had was the wiering harness was too short, but I called up edelbrock up and they told me to send it back and they would legnthen it, and they did, overall I was verry pleased with it, and it could support 450HP according to edelbrock, and probibly allot more with some gasket matching and other machine work and some bigger injectors. I'm not really that fimilar with any other EFI so if there's somthing better please don't flame me.

 

I would rip off the fule infection, throw it at a wall really hard, and put a dominator on it : ).

 

When I originally did my 406 I had the TPI setup on it and like everyong says you run out of air between 4500 and 5000 rpm. I have since switched to Fastburn aluminum heads, 1.6 rockers, Edlebrock Super Victor Vortec intake, Demon 850DP. You would not think it was the same car. It pulls absolutely hard up to 6K which is as high as I am taking it so far. So far I am glad I lost the TPI setup. I don't drive this car often and it is more for the strip so driveability is not an issue.

 

thanks guys!

but I would really like to keep this fuel injected:lala:

 

No Flames?...... What the h e l l is wrong with you....this guy is trying to ask you what you think he should do and you take his ***** off for it.... dont be an a s s.

 

The guy who asked the question isn't the one with bad judgement, but the person who built it. This is clearly ad copy, copied and pasted. It isn't this poster's personal creation. Nobody's flaming him, or ridiculing him; the individual with logic issues is whoever built that motor, not the guy posting the seller's ad.

The person who built the motor obviously didn't understand the most fundamental basic thing about building a winning combo. Instead, he just opened up his checkbook, and ended up with something totally inappropriate. A Bowtie block, Arias pistons and Brodix heads don't belong under a stock TPI base and runners, ported or not. A stock block, ported stock heads, and TRW or KB or other off-the-shelf pistons would perform almost exactly as well. I'd bet that for the difference in HP between stock stuff and that long block, you're probably looking at something on the order of $200-$300 per HP; about 10 times the commonly accepted target for engine mods.

 

well I got the car dynoed today
317 rwhp
380 rwhp
I couldn't run the "performance setting" for the computer
the accel program needed a password an the previous owner didn't give it to me so it was still set on emissions tuning
air/fuel was a fat 12:1

how does that sound?
that about normal or above normal for a stock TPI induction car?

 

317 rwhp isn't very good for a 400. tuning the prom will get that up some but you need a crazy fuel inj. system to keep up with that bottom end. Is there a reason you want to keep it fuel inj? cause that bottom end is too much for TPI.

 

Granted, the STOCK TPI system is NOT designed to make TOP END HP... and I ALWAYS see everyone posting that their TPI engine dies, or won't pull past 4500 RPM or whatever...I don't know, maybe mine's a factory freak...but with a slightly cleaned up TPI intake, cleaned up plenum, STOCK runners, STOCK L98 cam, cleaned up L98 iron heads, STOCK TB, and a free flowing exhaust, my IROC pulls hard to 5300-5500 RPM. My rear tires always protest before the induction system does.

And I've got ALOT of tuning to do...hell I'm still running the CRAPPY '870 ECM on a 305 chip!!!

As for his dyno readings...sounds pretty nice to me.

With an auto, that 317 RWHP is pretty impressive to me... since that means with the standard figure of 20 percent drivetrain loss, that's right at 400 flywheel HP.

And the torque? 380 RW ft/lbs is right around 490 ft/lbs of torque. And in a 4100LB car ( did anyone else read the whole description? ) TORQUE is going to get that car moving, NOT HP.

One suggestion, I would get rid of the 4.11 gears, as they will more than likely slow you down on the strip. I'd see what gear you end up in with the 4.11's.... the lower gear helps the bigger car off the line, but that 400 is pumping enough torque to make up for some higher gears, and you'll probably hook better anyway...not too mention gain some MPG....


As for 317 RWHP not being very good for a 400.... I AGREE that the long block he listed is STOUT. And with a single plane intake, a big carb, and lots of tuning, I'm sure he could pull some gains on the dyno. Trouble is, I can almost guarantee you he's lose a GOOD BIT of torque down low.... since you'd want to tune that carb to be able to support the 400 and a good air/fuel mix at a HIGHER RPM than the current TPI setup. And since a carb won't adjust the mix by itself, it will more than likely be FAT on the bottom end...which loses power in itself.

And this is not 'bench-racing' or theory. I've built several 400's and helped tune alot more, and everytime the car was tuned, WITH A CARB, for the BEST performance at the track, it always effected the car's street manners, and surely made MPG go down the drain.

One of the above 400's was running 12.20's in a 3600LB car with a tuned Q-Jet ( which is the best carb IMHO for strip AND Street ) and this took a good bit of tuning. The ET stayed the same as the big Holley that was on it, but gas mileage and street manners improved greatly. But everytime the weather changed, temp, humidity etc, the tune was effected and had to be adjusted for best performance. Last season the guy added a TPI to the car. It uses a ported stock intake, Arizone S&M runners, ported plenum, 58mm TB ( big I know, but he got it with the setup as a package ). He's running a modified GM harness, and a Accel DFI. This came as a package, and I know JACK about the DFI as far as tuning. The package came off a built 383 where the owner went big block and sold the induction.

With only minor adjustments, like idle etc, the car ran a best in the 1/4 mile that was less than a tenth off the best carbed time. And the combo was ALOT more consistent.

BTW.. he actually started driving the car alot more. His gas mileage went from 10-12mpg to 14-16mpg.


Just my highly inflated 2 cents

 

I'm not impressed at all. Here's why.

For comparison's sake, my 400 did 284 RWHP and 373 RW ft-lbs.

It consisted of a stock 2-bolt block, a stock crank, stock rods with ARP bolts, a pair of stock 69-70 350 4-barrel heads, XE274H flat-tappet cam, Edlebrock TES, stock 305 HO cat and exhaust behind that, stock 305 HO air cleaner, a Holley 6210 carb, and a Edelbrock Performer NOT RPM intake.

Did I say "stock" enough times?

He got 30 more HP and 7 more ft-lbs than I did.... for how many $$$$$?

No flames, just reality and common sense.

{edit} I forgot to add..... for a LTR motor, it's pretty darn good though.... the HP right up there at the highest number anybody ever gets out of one of those. Basically, it has reached the brick wall. One of the other highest power TPI motors I know of (a 350) also puts 317 HP to the rear wheels. Hmmmmm............

 

Wasn't yours a 5 speed as well?
That's 10 percent less drivetrain loss right there...

That would give him another 40 HP or so....



And didn't he also mention that he couldn't change the Accel programming because it was password locked...

I know YOU and MANY others don't like TPI in stock or near stock configuration...fine, that's great....and the more you convince other people it's crap, the cheaper the parts become for me and others to ****** up.


And in 20 years, when damn near every state will require smog , there's going to be alot of cars I can snap up cheap and convert BACK to TPI



Later

Chris
85 IROC

 

well this car passes emissions how it dynoed yesterday
can you say that for yours?
I still have to tune it to make more power get the air/fuel a little leaner and mess with timing
hmmm let me ask you how much you paid for that car?
then I will let you know how much I paid for mine

 

oh I forgot to mention
this car has 2 mufflers and 4 cats!
Not high flow cats

 

I want to keep it Fuel injected because of drivability issues

I really don't want to change the tune every time the weather changes

I am thinking of getting a super ram

all I would need is the intake itself correct?
could I use the fuel rails and injectors I got now?
what about the corvette speed density setup?
would I need to convert to mass air?
my buddy would buy my stuff that is on my car now, it is a 88 tpi350 would he have any trouble with this 89 vette setup?

 

Zenger

I think you have a really well built motor here!!! I personnaly think that a fuel system like a mini ram or something will give you great power gains. I think if you put a carb on, you will lose all that torque down low. i would stick with fuel injection and maybe put an aftermarket system on, and you will have one fast car!!!
good luck

 

Thanks!

 

Exactly... a MiniRam or Stealth Ram would let the capabilities of that long block really shine. I'd bet it would make 150 HP more with a MiniRam. And you wouldn't lose any torque. And I opened my hood about every 2000 miles or so to check the oil, using it as a daily driver, with the A/C working, 20-25,000 miles a year. 18 mpg on the highway with the stock (3.73) gears. Oooops, that word again.

Yes, my car passed emissions as it was then.... the OEM 83 specs.

 

did you have a Manual tranny backing that motor up?

mine was a 4L80-E not a tranny known for transferring power efficiently

 

that most certainly does not pass emissions. 4 cats and two mufflers to start with. cats must be in stock location and the stock number available for that year to qualify as emissions legal. also, that cam is certainly too much to pass emissions. the power is mearly ok, but having that engine with that set up is just a waste of a good long block. running a 9 inch rear with that 4L80e, your probably roughly 23% through the drivtrain. a far cry from the 17 to 19% the stock th350 and 8.5 diff would take.

 

I have the Emissions certificate or whatever it is called
the previous owner gave it to me with the car
so.....?
How do people know for a fact that stuff does or doesn't without actually seeing it?

 

Emissions inspection procedures vary widely from place to place. You have everything from no inspection whatsoever, to idle emissions with no visual, to visual and dyno test, to the full California automotive **** probe experience. I've had them all in various places and times. You can't look at anything and say for sure that it will or won't pass, unless you know where it is.

 

let me tell ya, just because it has a passing sticker on it doesn't make it emissions legal. as for knowing without seeing it, i'm not exactly new to this field. reguardless of the emissions testing, legal is legal. i live in michigan and we have no testing or inspection. this doesn't mean the cars on our roads are emissions legal. emissions laws are federal, not state to state. a state can mandate a higher emissions standard, but not a lower one. therefore, as i said, having an emissions pass slip either means they didn't catch something, someone got paid off, or it was different at the time of the last test.

 

ok cool

 

Thanks everyone

I purchased a stealth ram today

should be here in a few days
and have it on in a few weeks after that
will report as soon as I have another dyno!