Well first I would like to start off by saying this site rocks. Honestly guys I'm just happy to know I'm not alone. Let me just briefly go over the past 13 years with my 1991 Z28. I bought it new as soon as I graduated in 1992. It was awesome, drove the hell out of it for three years (put 37,543 miles on it). Then that's when my Z became my nightmare. It started with the lurching and a rough idle. Place after place...no one had an answer, I dealt with it. Then came the ominous...I'm not gonna start unless I feel like it. The Z left me stranded more than a couple times, I dealt with it. Oh I'm not done yet...the overheating was the best...leaving me on the side of the highway in one of the worst parts of Detroit. I'll never forget that day July 21, 1995...I bought a new Cutlass Supreme right after my friend John picked me up. I had the Z towed home and guess what I haven't touched it since.
Well the time has come to face my arch nemisis, and guess what it wouldn't start. So here's where I'm at...I repaced the starter, battery, alternator and a fuel pump relay(the relay was buzzing). Well the relay is still buzzing and no crank at all. As soon as I turn the key forward the fuel pump engages, but after about 4 seconds the relay is buzzing like crazy. Any ideas??? Thanks in advance

 

...wrong thread....

 

Welcome to the boards!
I'm not sure of what your problem mite be, but after replacing all that I'd start flowing back wires and make sure their all still there. Checking everything with a volt meter would be a good idea too, see how far the power is geting to your starter.. Hope your able to get it running , its aslways good to see another 3rd gen on the roads again.

 

I do believe you posted this in the wrong thread.

 

I think there may be a few different problems...

You might be confusing the FP relay with one of the Fan relay's...they're right next to each other on your car.

Things is, if the engine cranks/spins over...after about 10 seconds or so, the FP will energize off the oil pressure switch...so the FP relay shouldn't (assuming ther oil psi switch is working) be an issue with starting.

So, could be just the fan relay now buzzing (why you over heated?)

Just guessing, since I can't see the car.


The first thing to ask is:

Will the engine spin over?

If so, the squirt some starting fluid (just a bit) into the intake (which will require you to do a little wrench work).

Did the engine try to "fire" with the starting fluid?

Let's start from there and see what happens.

 

I knew I should've sold it...just kidding. At this point the engine will not crank. When I turn the key forward, I do hear a click from the relay on the kickboard. I have power at the starter. What weird is that all three of those relays are now buzzing when I turn the key forward. Not all the time though, some times you can hear the fuel pump and sometime ya can't. Thanks guys for any suggestions, I really appreciate it.

 

3D,

Welcome Aboard!

A few more questions.

Is the battery fully charged? You certainly have some kind of electrical issues, and a fully charged battery and reliable connections are essential. Check the connections, including the battery ground and all the wiring at the starter. At least two of the power wires at the starter are fusible links, and those are possibly contributing to your problems. You should also make sure teh ground straps on the rear of the right cylinder head are connected and intact.

Do you have a charger connected to the battery while trying to start? If so, the AC component of the voltage being delivered can cause the relay action you are describing. It can also "confuse" the ECM signals.

Once the battery is fully charged and the connections are clean and tight, perform a code scan. That ECM mode should cause the fan to turn on. If not, you may have other problems, like a poor ground at the ECM itself.

Finally, when you insert the key and turn the ignition ON, what does the SECURITY light on the dash do?

 

Seems like Vader has most of it covered above.

But I'd wonder when the engine overheated, did it get hot enough to stall the engine?

 

Usually a car won't run right or at all if it wasn't properly broken in when bought new

 

its been sitting for almost 7 years,,,did you ever change the oil??? Id say your problems may be worse then it not starting.....make sure you got new oil in it before anything.

 

Well the buzzing noise was a charger I had hooked up on the battery in hopes not to drain the battery too soon. As for the security light, when I turn the key forward it stays on for about 3 seconds and then goes off. I did the code scan...the fan kicked on and all I received was 12 after 12. I have power at the starter. Any ideas as to where to go from here, I'm dying to get the Z running. Thanks in advance.

 

3D,

Your SECURITY lamp seems to be acting normally. Actually, it should be on for about 4-5 seconds, but, close enough.

I'm glad you solved the electrical noise "mystery" issue from the charger. However, since the ECM was subjected to the same AC voltage, you might want to disconnect the battery to fully charge it. At the same time, the RAM in the ECM will be cleared of any bad or scrambled data.

Once you are powered up again, pay very close attention to the systems. Watch the "SES" lamp when you first turn on the ignition. The lamp should light once, then go off briefly, then light again and remain on until the engine is running or the ignition is turned off. That will indicate that the ECM has run and passed some rudimentary power-on self tests (POST) and has both valid RAM and a valid CALPAK/EPROM installed. I'm guessing that the ECM is O.K., since it would enter Field Service Mode and returned a code '12'.

Listen carefully when you turn the ignition key to the START position. You should be able to hear a relay behind the left kick panel trim when the key is turned to crank the starter. That is the start enable relay, and is part of the VATS and starter interlock system for clutch/neutral safety. If you don't hear the relay, you may have a problem with the theft system (VATS) or the clutch/neutral safety switch. I'd guess that 99.99% of VATS problems are with poor connections right at the lock cylinder. You could try cleaning the key contacts and cylinder contacts with a cotton swab dipped in alcohol just to be sure.

The neutral safety is in the center console, and is pretty straightforward. A clutch safety switch would be mounted to the clutch pedal arm, and is even more straightforward.

If the relay is clicking, you likely have a starter wiring or solenoid problem. All of that will require access to the starter leads for testing. Grab your voltmeter. You should get 12 VDC at teh 'S' terminal when an assistant tries to crank the starter. If so, and the starter doesn't engage, you have a solenoid problem. If the voltage isn't present, you have a wiring problem eleswhere.

Checking out those possibilities should get us closer to the solution.

 

Vader's got this thread on lock down.

 

IT'S ALIVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vader you are the man, the Z is cranking...it's not starting but it's cranking.
After I got it cranking I removed a plug to check for spark, definately has spark. The only thing I'm worried about is the gas, the tank is full, and I used Stabil...will it still be good or how would I go about changing it out. Should I also replace the fuel filter?? How could I check to see if fuel is getting up front???? Thanks again for all the help.

 

Yes, Vader is the man. I have sacrificed countless Geo Metros on the altar of his automotive greatness.

I'd fire some starter fluid down the intake to see if it tries to start, just to rule out any spark issues.

7 years is a long time for a car to sit, and I wouldn't be suprised if you didn't have some condensation in your tank. I've had to drain water from fuel tanks on equipment that's only been parked for a couple of months, even with treated gas.

By the way, what engine to you have? Carb, TBI, or Tuned Port? There's lots of different things to look at, depending on which setup you're running.

 

3D,

It seems like SpeedCat has the right questions. It's most likely that your Z has a TPI engine, but it's possible that it's a TBI. Some of the procedures will be a lot different, some will be the same.

Got any weeds to kill? Again, SpeedCat is right on the issue. That fuel is about as stale as stories from Mopar drivers about how their "Hemi can do this" or "Six-pack can do that". Yeah, I'll be waiting for you at the traps to take a photo as your car crosses.... Anyway, get that fuel out of there, but dispose of it properly (just kidding about the weed control). Even with Sta-Bil, there is no volativity left. I use Sta-Bil myself, but after that much time, your're asking a lot from a little bit of product.

When you get some fresh gasoline in there (the kind that will actually burn) you'll have a lot of work to do, since the car is seven years behind on maintenance.

1. The fuel filter replacement is a must, and you may actually have to do it more than once;

2. Change all fluids - engine oil, transmission oil, differential oil, coolant, power steering, brake oil);

3. Hose inspection;

4. Belt replacement;

5. Full chassis and body lubrication (the CAR - not yours. You can celebrate later however you want. We don't need the details);

6. Tire inspection (look for dry rot and cracks);

7. Brake inspection.

I'm sure you'll discover other issues as you start to drive the car regularly. We've been here "forever" and probably aren't going away any time soon, so answers and suggestiosn are as close as your keyboard.

 

Draining the tank will be a slow process. A siphon pump might actually be faster than trying to drain or pump it out. Remember, even though the fuel is stale, is is still dangerous. If you have a TPI. you can connect a hose to the test fitting and collect the fuel as the pump forces it out. There is nothing wrong with this method, since the pump runs all the time while the engine is running anyway.

If you have a TBI, you can do the same thing by disconnecting the fuel line at the rear of the TBI pressure regulator and attaching a section of hose to reach your collection receptacle.

With either system, you'll only have to provide power to the fuel pump to keep it running. You can do this by connecting a fused 12VDC + supply to the 'G' terminal on the ALDL connector when the ignition is turned OFF. The cigarette lighter can be used as a convenient source, and it is fused or protected by a breaker.



Either method will be fairly slow, since the in-tank pump will probably only move ½ gallon per minute with a clean fuel filter, less with a clogging one.

If you have a TPI engine, there is a Schrader valve test fitting on the right fuel rail. You can connect a pressure gauge to the fitting to test system pressure or you can simply depress the center core stem of the valve to check for the presence of fuel pressure (beware of the potential fuel spray!). If your engine is TBI, you'll have to adapt a fitting into the system to test pressure, or you can remove a line at the regulator to check for flow.

Let us know what's happening, please.

 

cool let us know how its going,,,I dieing to hear what happens!!! It is kind of like a time capsule!

 

What a pain in the #$%. I live in Michigan, you would think I would be able to find a siphon of some sort somewhere. That's o.k. I ordered it, should be here tomorrow. I bought 3 fuel filters just in case (can always take one or two back), installed one today. I was looking over the engine and on the right side above the starter, is that a coolant temp sensor??? It doesn't look very good, has corrosion all over it. Well tomorrow is the big day, hopefully the Z will start. Thanks again for all the help and advice.

 

WHat you'r eseeing above the starter is a coolant temperature SWITCH. It operates the seconday cooling fan (you must have the dual fan setup) once the coolant gets above a temp that the primary fan can't handle. The corrosion may very well be from a leak.

You live in MI and you're trying to work on this thing NOW! I hope it's inside a garage! I'm in Ohio, and I hesitate to walk out the door, let alone work outside!

 

so did you get it started?

 

OH YEAH BABY...IT'S ON NOW
It's official guys the Z is running with fresh oil, trans fluid, coolant, and the most cruecial componant GASOLINE. This site is the shisnit. I am forever greatful. I still have the surging problem after it gets warm but no overheating (I left it running for a half hour...almost ran it out of gas).
Well now it's to the fun part, modifying. I already have aluminum heads, headers (cats are already gone), a cam, msd ignition system, and a fuel pump for starters...went shopping today.
I have to send the heads out, I bought them bare. They are 350 heads with a 58cc chamber, I know nothing about heads but the guy that I bought them said he runs them in his vette. Anything else you can think of to start???? And what about this surging???
Thanx again

 

thats sweet man.... what size motor u got in there?

 

get us some pics...

 

Got a 350 in it. I will send some pics as soon as I get my scanner hooked back up. I was surfing some adult sites and the whole system crashed. I just put my rims and tires back on it, it looks mean as #@$%. They are weld racing raptures w/ dunlop sp's. Guys, I cannot wait to get it rockin, any other simple mod's would be appreciated. Have a good one.

 

simple mods...port plenum, airfoil , tune up, K&N filter,

beautification...polish plenum/runners, white guage overlays

its really late...thats all i can think of as far as being simple